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As a recently returned player, can somebody please explain this to me? I get why Crimson Slaughter and the Red Corsairs have MKVII, but surely the Alpha Legion, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children etc should use MKIV instead of MKVII?

 ChazSexington wrote:
As a recently returned player, can somebody please explain this to me? I get why Crimson Slaughter and the Red Corsairs have MKVII, but surely the Alpha Legion, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children etc should use MKIV instead of MKVII?

Because then they'd have to actually make models for them, and you know how much GW seems to hate making new infantry kits these days.

 Kain wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
As a recently returned player, can somebody please explain this to me? I get why Crimson Slaughter and the Red Corsairs have MKVII, but surely the Alpha Legion, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children etc should use MKIV instead of MKVII?

Because then they'd have to actually make models for them, and you know how much GW seems to hate making new infantry kits these days.

oh my god... knock it off.

You can kit your models however you wish. Mk IV is kind of rare in any kit.

The MKIV kit exists if you really want to buy it, but I'm guessing you don't. If you made all of the CSMs with MKIV helmets people who play recently turned warbands would complain that there are no MKVII heads and vice versa, GW are simply doing what's easiest for them and also what they can make look good.

Need new moulds would have to be made, though forge world produce a couple of different armour marks and alternative versions that might furfil your needs.

viewfinder wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
As a recently returned player, can somebody please explain this to me? I get why Crimson Slaughter and the Red Corsairs have MKVII, but surely the Alpha Legion, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children etc should use MKIV instead of MKVII?

Because then they'd have to actually make models for them, and you know how much GW seems to hate making new infantry kits these days.

oh my god... knock it off.

You can kit your models however you wish. Mk IV is kind of rare in any kit.

I kitbash, scratchbuild, and modify my models all the time.

I'm simply poking fun at how GW loves to do giant expensive models but infantry? Heaven forbid.

 Kain wrote:

Because then they'd have to actually make models for them, and you know how much GW seems to hate making new infantry kits these days.

I get they'd have to greatly increase their miniature range (why, thank you ForgeWorld), but is there an in-game explanation?

viewfinder wrote:

oh my god... knock it off.

You can kit your models however you wish. Mk IV is kind of rare in any kit.

Aye, I know; I'm probably gonna base my Alpha Legion on MKIV from ForgeWorld, because I'm a perfectionist with more money than sense. However, I'm wondering if there's a reason the CSM have MKVII (or MKVIII, I'm not too familiar with the armour fluff) instead of the more logical MKIV (or MKIII).

 Kain wrote:

viewfinder wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
As a recently returned player, can somebody please explain this to me? I get why Crimson Slaughter and the Red Corsairs have MKVII, but surely the Alpha Legion, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children etc should use MKIV instead of MKVII?

Because then they'd have to actually make models for them, and you know how much GW seems to hate making new infantry kits these days.

oh my god... knock it off.

You can kit your models however you wish. Mk IV is kind of rare in any kit.

I kitbash, scratchbuild, and modify my models all the time.

I'm simply poking fun at how GW loves to do giant expensive models but infantry? Heaven forbid.

It's only been a few months since the release of the SM Tactical kit, so leave it be. They're just trying to fill all the codex options, and there's no codex that's missing a Troops choice.

If I'm trying to make a point, it would be that, fluffwise, it would make a helluva lot more sense to issue MKIV and MKVII versions of CSM. But I'm not really; I'm wondering what the in-game reason is for legions ten thousand years old have got the newest kit.

 ChazSexington wrote:
If I'm trying to make a point, it would be that, fluffwise, it would make a helluva lot more sense to issue MKIV and MKVII versions of CSM. But I'm not really; I'm wondering what the in-game reason is for legions ten thousand years old have got the newest kit.

The reason is because a lot of the Veterans of the Long War are dead, honestly. All of the Traitor Legions are constantly receiving new recruits, and almost all of these new recruits will have come from current Space Marine chapters who use MKVII armour.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
If I'm trying to make a point, it would be that, fluffwise, it would make a helluva lot more sense to issue MKIV and MKVII versions of CSM. But I'm not really; I'm wondering what the in-game reason is for legions ten thousand years old have got the newest kit.

The reason is because a lot of the Veterans of the Long War are dead, honestly. All of the Traitor Legions are constantly receiving new recruits, and almost all of these new recruits will have come from current Space Marine chapters who use MKVII armour.

How would guys with messed up geneseed do that?

Edit - Derp, didn't read your entire answer. But from what I've read, most Renegade SM chapters keep their own identity and form their own warbands rather than being assimilated into say the Thousand Sons or Emperor's Children.

They steal geneseed from Loyalist Marines all the time.

Also, remember that all the marks of armour (except 8) were used during the heresy. Mark IV was used towards the end of the great
crusade. MarkV or "heresy" armour was a hastily put together armour to meet the large demands of the fighting. Mark 6 armour "classic beaky" armour, was used by the raven guard as they rebuilt after the drop site massacre, and probably by other forces on both sides. EVen mark seven was used by marines by the end at the battle of terra. And because the mechanicum was also split during the Heresy plenty of CSM could have suits from any mark. Still there are a lot more different helmet styles among the current CSM and SM kits that do not match the 8 standard armour patterns. Where did they all come from?

 Psienesis wrote:
They steal geneseed from Loyalist Marines all the time.

Sauce?

Its because at this point the Chaos Marines have scavenged new kit over the thousands of years they've been fighting.

 Kapitan Montag wrote:
Also, remember that all the marks of armour (except 8) were used during the heresy. Mark IV was used towards the end of the great
crusade. MarkV or "heresy" armour was a hastily put together armour to meet the large demands of the fighting. Mark 6 armour "classic beaky" armour, was used by the raven guard as they rebuilt after the drop site massacre, and probably by other forces on both sides. EVen mark seven was used by marines by the end at the battle of terra. And because the mechanicum was also split during the Heresy plenty of CSM could have suits from any mark. Still there are a lot more different helmet styles among the current CSM and SM kits that do not match the 8 standard armour patterns. Where did they all come from?

Warhammer 40k wiki wrote:However, this pattern of armour [MKV] is still commonplace among the Traitor Legions of Chaos.

Which also appears, according to the Wiki, to be the last one the Traitors got their paws on.

The helmets don't bother me too much; CSM aren't exactly known for not customising their gear. Roman legionnaires would often nick Celtic weapons and helmets, but they wouldn't switch their entire armour.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
They steal geneseed from Loyalist Marines all the time.

Sauce?

Just about every CSM raid out of the Eye ever.

Also, when a CSM kills a SM who is wearing shiny new armour, the CSM thinks... "Man, I sure would love to have that shiny new armour."

In other words, CSM don't have the Forge World resources a SM Chapter might, so they scavenge what they can. Over the years, that scavenging has led to newer and newer Marks of armour.

The better question isn't "Why do CSM use new armour?". The better question is "Why don't CSM loot and scavenge other bits of tech?".

Where is my CSM Attack Bike? Land Speeder? Scout Armour?

Also, IRT gene-seed for CSM, you can skip down to the bottom section of this article:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gene-seed#Chaos_Space_Marines

Because that would insinuate that CSM are better than Space Marines in a small almost insignificant category and GW can't have that. Lol.

 Kriswall wrote:
Also, when a CSM kills a SM who is wearing shiny new armour, the CSM thinks... "Man, I sure would love to have that shiny new armour."

In other words, CSM don't have the Forge World resources a SM Chapter might, so they scavenge what they can. Over the years, that scavenging has led to newer and newer Marks of armour.

The better question isn't "Why do CSM use new armour?". The better question is "Why don't CSM loot and scavenge other bits of tech?".

Where is my CSM Attack Bike? Land Speeder? Scout Armour?

Yeah, I've wondering about that too. But still; scavenging wouldn't replace ALL their armour.

 Psienesis wrote:
Also, IRT gene-seed for CSM, you can skip down to the bottom section of this article:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gene-seed#Chaos_Space_Marines

Aye; I've even read about the Alpha Legion making new CSM. But it was more the "all the time" I wanted sauce on.

Gene-seed is the singlemost valuable resource for any CSM Legion or warband. Without it, the warband cannot replace losses. Bile has had some successes in replicating the process of creating it (though "success" is being used very broadly here), but the best source remains taking it from other Loyalist Marines... either their corpses or the Chapter's stores.

There's also... what is it? Dead Sky, Black Sun or whatever-the-feth that book is titled and an Iron Warriors novel I have forgotten the name of that has them raiding some gene-seed stocks.

You mean storm of iron? Where they raid the fortress and lay siege to gain it?

They still harvest there dead for gene seed so it's not like they are entirely dependent on raids for it.

Only reliable way to gain in qaunity though, risky but the rewards are very high.

Fluffwise the reason for Mk5+ existing is that Mk4 was so advanced that the Legions were unable to fabricate sufficient spare parts to repair battle damage.

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:
They still harvest there dead for gene seed so it's not like they are entirely dependent on raids for it.

Yes, but who knows what the Warp has done to it over time? Many of their progenoids might be totally useless by now for creating anything resembling a marine.

Isn't Mk.7 better than Mk.4? If so, I can totally see why the CSM would ditch their old crap for the shiny new stuff. I don't think they are as much of relic humpers as their loyalist bretheren are.

It is. Aside from "Iron" armor, which was a specialized mark for frontal assaults, and Corvus, which had expanded sensor equipment, each subsequent mark has been an improvement over the previous.

jhe90 wrote:
You mean storm of iron? Where they raid the fortress and lay siege to gain it?

Might be it.