Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Raxmei wrote:
Probably been pointed out before, but tank commanders being characters means they can make precision shots. Pask in a Punisher with all the bolters would be rolling on average just under five sixes a turn.

As if we needed another reason to run him.

Not only are his sixes rending, but you can also assign these conveniently rending shots.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Raxmei wrote:
Probably been pointed out before, but tank commanders being characters means they can make precision shots. Pask in a Punisher with all the bolters would be rolling on average just under five sixes a turn.

As if we needed another reason to run him.

Not only are his sixes rending, but you can also assign these conveniently rending shots.

I am beginning to think someone didn't think character tanks through.

especially with a heavy 20 rending weapon...

I think the pask punisher just became the first thing in our new codex that's actually overpowered. Which is a shame, because I like the idea of a pask punisher.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Raxmei wrote:
Probably been pointed out before, but tank commanders being characters means they can make precision shots. Pask in a Punisher with all the bolters would be rolling on average just under five sixes a turn.

As if we needed another reason to run him.

Not only are his sixes rending, but you can also assign these conveniently rending shots.

I am beginning to think someone didn't think character tanks through.

Its also the whole warlord thing with who gets to be it if you have another HQ with higher leadership because they don't have a Ld value. I mean, I can't help but think that simply adding a Ld value to their stat lines would have been infinitely simpler than using this whole workaround shenanigans.

Oh, GW.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Raxmei wrote:
Probably been pointed out before, but tank commanders being characters means they can make precision shots. Pask in a Punisher with all the bolters would be rolling on average just under five sixes a turn.

As if we needed another reason to run him.

Not only are his sixes rending, but you can also assign these conveniently rending shots.

Not quite that bad. Rending goes off on the roll to wound, so a precision rending shot would only be one out of thirty-six shots from Pask's Punisher cannon. A bit over an even chance of that happening. Of course that's still scary especially alongside all the normal hits.

Right...I knew that.

I was...uhhh...just checking that you knew.

 Ailaros wrote:
especially with a heavy 20 rending weapon...

I think the pask punisher just became the first thing in our new codex that's actually overpowered. Which is a shame, because I like the idea of a pask punisher.

Its not over powered. hes 350 minimum with a eradicator escort, gets more expensive from there. I actually think he is way to pricey, by the time you finish making his squad mate actually useful your looking at over 400 points that's in a squadron. My marines love expensive vehicle squadrons. He still only has 3 HP and blows sky high to things like orbital bombardments or drop podding melta. If you buy him 12" of bubble wrap you now have even more invested in the guy and that same bubble wrap keeps him that much farther from getting that 24" range gun to bare.


He's awesome fun and a big threat but I don't think he is broken or overpowered by any stretch of the imagination. You definitely pay for what you get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So how funny would it be to ally Tigurius and GoI an entire power blob 24" first turn...

I finally figured out the use of the Relentless warlord trait: Lord Commissars. If you have one of these guys as your warlord, it's actually an awesome trait, because you could attach him to a blob and make it walk and shoot heavy weapons, or even fire everything and assault if the opportunity arose. Better than a walking MoO, that's for sure.

I think the Lord Commissar benefits the most from the new warlord table. There really isn't a dud for him, as you can deploy him wherever you want after you figure out what you get. A third of the time you get to issue an order, and giving relentless of preferred enemy is pretty righteous. The other two are still workable as well.

 Blacksails wrote:
I think the Lord Commissar benefits the most from the new warlord table. There really isn't a dud for him, as you can deploy him wherever you want after you figure out what you get. A third of the time you get to issue an order, and giving relentless of preferred enemy is pretty righteous. The other two are still workable as well.

Just can't take a CCS to take him as the Warlord which is a bit of a downside for some armies (no Senior Officer Orders for instance).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Just can't take a CCS to take him as the Warlord which is a bit of a downside for some armies (no Senior Officer Orders for instance).

Yeah, but that's a reasonable choice.

Plus, the Lord Commissar model is bitchin'.

Also, you can't just go and change your avatar willy-nilly like that. Warn a brother.

 Blacksails wrote:
I think the Lord Commissar benefits the most from the new warlord table. There really isn't a dud for him, as you can deploy him wherever you want after you figure out what you get. A third of the time you get to issue an order, and giving relentless of preferred enemy is pretty righteous. The other two are still workable as well.

While he did gain on the Warlord tables, I think he lost more when he lost the generic "leadership" bubble and became a morale bubble. Right now I feel that the Lord Commissar is the weakest of the HQ choices we can take as a warlord at the present moment.

 kir44n wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
I think the Lord Commissar benefits the most from the new warlord table. There really isn't a dud for him, as you can deploy him wherever you want after you figure out what you get. A third of the time you get to issue an order, and giving relentless of preferred enemy is pretty righteous. The other two are still workable as well.

While he did gain on the Warlord tables, I think he lost more when he lost the generic "leadership" bubble and became a morale bubble. Right now I feel that the Lord Commissar is the weakest of the HQ choices we can take as a warlord at the present moment.

He's also dirt cheap though. You'd never take a naked Command Squad, which often puts its cost in the 100+ range, while you can take a cheap Lord for 70pts with the Emperor's Benediction to buff out a large blob squad or for playing at small point levels to give a squad a little extra zing.

I think its a fair choice, though I admit it'd be better if he had his old bubble back, but them's the breaks.

But seriously, look at that model. Dat pose.

 Blacksails wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Just can't take a CCS to take him as the Warlord which is a bit of a downside for some armies (no Senior Officer Orders for instance).

Yeah, but that's a reasonable choice.

Plus, the Lord Commissar model is bitchin'.

Also, you can't just go and change your avatar willy-nilly like that. Warn a brother.

Don't like the mustache twirling?

I decided change was good and with starting a Vostroyan army as my primary army it fits.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Don't like the mustache twirling?

I decided change was good and with starting a Vostroyan army as my primary army it fits.

Are you just starting a Guard army? And a Vostroyan at that?

If so, carry on with my blessing. Go forth fellow commander!

 Blacksails wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Don't like the mustache twirling?

I decided change was good and with starting a Vostroyan army as my primary army it fits.

Are you just starting a Guard army? And a Vostroyan at that?

If so, carry on with my blessing. Go forth fellow commander!

Well I'm not running off to join the military (again).

And yes, a second all metal army full of models with bling. Because the table needs more armies with bling.

I think the LC is really the only choice (but still pretty questionable) for the Death Mask also. Makes him a pretty tough Warlord. Those Senior Officer orders are so painfully good, though.

Funny enough, I just managed to find someone to buy all my current Guard so I can focus on turning my old metal stuff into new resin stuff.

Though the Vostroyans have always been a close second for me.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Lord Commissar Model. I picked him up first day when finecast came out, and used him alot for my 2nd HQ choice in alot of my lists.

Its just that, right now, for foot lists I can't imagine not having orders, nor the command squads close-range firepower, and in a tank list not taking pask as the warlord. And if you are looking to fill up a 2nd HQ slot, a CCS is still 10 points cheaper naked, and in my eyes the orders alone make it outweigh the Lord Commisssars morale bubble.

I myself have two full platoons of cadians, but have built up a 3rd platoon of steel legion. Currently decided on whether I'll continue fleshing out a 2nd army in Steel Legion, or pick up a different regiment.

I guess this comes back to my dislike of all things random, or at least random tables that could have just been selections.

The Lord Commissar would be a great budget choice if you could pick exactly what you want to do with him. Want PE for a blob? Or maybe relentless?

Ah well. I think the Lord got a bit of a buff overall, but then again, so did the command squad with the new orders.

My only gripe with tank commanders is that I want to be able to run him alone, like in the ABG list. Also, beast hunter shells.

 Blacksails wrote:
I guess this comes back to my dislike of all things random, or at least random tables that could have just been selections.

The Lord Commissar would be a great budget choice if you could pick exactly what you want to do with him. Want PE for a blob? Or maybe relentless?

Ah well. I think the Lord got a bit of a buff overall, but then again, so did the command squad with the new orders.

My only gripe with tank commanders is that I want to be able to run him alone, like in the ABG list. Also, beast hunter shells.

the relentless trait, then sticking him inside a full platoon with heavy weapons? Yes please, that would be magnificent.

As for beast-hunter shells...one of my brothers mains Nids, and the primary reason he won't vote for FW in our gaming group is because he fears the Beast-Hunter shells deleting his Tervigons & Trygons. Well, that and he thinks autocannon chimeras are too good XD.

 Blacksails wrote:
Funny enough, I just managed to find someone to buy all my current Guard so I can focus on turning my old metal stuff into new resin stuff.

Though the Vostroyans have always been a close second for me.

I guess I just can't play an army that can't be used to blugeon muggers to death with.

Though considering how big Guard armies can get I'll probably be able to beat a bear to death with this one.

I looked at Krieg, and while I love the models I had two major quibbles with them and one minor one: first there was the rules. I didn't really feel like playing WWI: the Army but at the same time I didn't feel like they felt right being used normally like other Guard armies. The second major problem is the colors are drab. And while I know that's intentional I see a lot of drab armies (especially a lot of plain black armies, because they're so easy to paint) and I wanted an army that would "pop" on the table. The last issue I had is with resin: namely it's a pain to deal with, it's not hard to accidently break and even as good as FW is about their models I just didn't want to go down that road with them.

That pretty much left me with Cadia (*yawn*), Catachan (buff macho men: the army isn't really my thing) or one of the metal Guard armies. And frankly Vostroyans are the only ones of them that look good, and it's probably because they're a lot younger than the other model lines. Plus they fit 40k (looking VERY much like Blanche's concept for them) very well, and give me an excuse to play with snow flocking.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Funny enough, I just managed to find someone to buy all my current Guard so I can focus on turning my old metal stuff into new resin stuff.

Though the Vostroyans have always been a close second for me.

I guess I just can't play an army that can't be used to blugeon muggers to death with.

Though considering how big Guard armies can get I'll probably be able to beat a bear to death with this one.

I looked at Krieg, and while I love the models I had two major quibbles with them and one minor one: first there was the rules. I didn't really feel like playing WWI: the Army but at the same time I didn't feel like they felt right being used normally like other Guard armies. The second major problem is the colors are drab. And while I know that's intentional I see a lot of drab armies (especially a lot of plain black armies, because they're so easy to paint) and I wanted an army that would "pop" on the table. The last issue I had is with resin: namely it's a pain to deal with, it's not hard to accidently break and even as good as FW is about their models I just didn't want to go down that road with them.

That pretty much left me with Cadia (*yawn*), Catachan (buff macho men: the army isn't really my thing) or one of the metal Guard armies. And frankly Vostroyans are the only ones of them that look good, and it's probably because they're a lot younger than the other model lines. Plus they fit 40k (looking VERY much like Blanche's concept for them) very well, and give me an excuse to play with snow flocking.

I will point out that color only matters if you're going off of one of the established regiments/color patterns. My main guard is in blue-grey uniform, with my stormtroopers and special weapons squads going for black uniforms & gold armor. Because being ostentatious is amazing on the battlefield.

Those are all reasonable points. I'm using Vic Minis for my army now; she does Mordians better than GW, and I'd sacrifice a little bit of durability and ease of assembly (read: none) for multi-part, more details and options, version with constant support. Not to mention the future female version to make the force look even better.

Metal was nice for some things, but a pain for others. Slopes always made me uncomfortably angry.

Krieg models are certainly nice, but, like you, not for me. I like fairly bright colours, hence Mordian Guard for the dress uniform aspect.

Vostroyans always kind of scared from a painting aspect too. There's just so much on each model I don't know if I could ever make it look good. I'll stick to my simpler models with uniforms I'm more comfortable with.

 Blacksails wrote:
Those are all reasonable points. I'm using Vic Minis for my army now; she does Mordians better than GW, and I'd sacrifice a little bit of durability and ease of assembly (read: none) for multi-part, more details and options, version with constant support. Not to mention the future female version to make the force look even better.

Metal was nice for some things, but a pain for others. Slopes always made me uncomfortably angry.

Krieg models are certainly nice, but, like you, not for me. I like fairly bright colours, hence Mordian Guard for the dress uniform aspect.

Vostroyans always kind of scared from a painting aspect too. There's just so much on each model I don't know if I could ever make it look good. I'll stick to my simpler models with uniforms I'm more comfortable with.

I take it you never put on magnetic bases, or glued magnets underneath your models & did the same to your battleboard?

 kir44n wrote:


I take it you never put on magnetic bases, or glued magnets underneath your models & did the same to your battleboard?

You're assuming I have even an iota of modelling ability.

 Blacksails wrote:
Those are all reasonable points. I'm using Vic Minis for my army now; she does Mordians better than GW, and I'd sacrifice a little bit of durability and ease of assembly (read: none) for multi-part, more details and options, version with constant support. Not to mention the future female version to make the force look even better.

Metal was nice for some things, but a pain for others. Slopes always made me uncomfortably angry.

Krieg models are certainly nice, but, like you, not for me. I like fairly bright colours, hence Mordian Guard for the dress uniform aspect.

Vostroyans always kind of scared from a painting aspect too. There's just so much on each model I don't know if I could ever make it look good. I'll stick to my simpler models with uniforms I'm more comfortable with.

Oddly a lot going on with the infantry, but not the tanks. The tanks are pretty easy to paint honestly (I did a Stormblade up as a kind of experiment and all really it takes a steel color (which you may or may not wash with Nuln Oil), a brass color (which you may or may not age with Nihilakh Oxide or a watered down turquoise) Karnak Stone for the armoured panels, and a heavy drybrushing of Screaming Skull over that (to texture it a bit, and pick out raised details) the add stripes in Metephiston Red and pick out details in that with a lighter red to make it look not flat) I used an airbrush and was done in 3 hours. I'll probably take longer next time but I'll be doing it in parts and trying to make it as swappable as possible, so more parts to paint).

I'm currently soaking my Vostroyans (all 8 of them because the Heavy Bolter team escaped unpainted for the moment because that darned arm doesn't want to stay on) in Simple Green to give them another go this weekend as I wasn't 100% satisfied with how things were going on parts of them. Namely on the leather and wood bits (I've never painted leather or wood grain before so I'm learning with both). I may end up making a tutorial out of this stuff just to share how I did/do things.

 Blacksails wrote:
I don't want to bring allies though. I don't want to shell out for a (legal) Inquisition book just to bring a slightly better option, when I can stay in-book for largely the same effect. Its also less to carry around, the references are on one page, and there's no confusion for my opponent.

Fair. I think I just find inquisitors cooler than random psyker dudes.

So, the pask punisher has a 50% chance to stick a lascannon or a multimelta shot on the model of his choice (which will probably wound, and ignores armor). Then, on top of that, he puts down slightly over 3 more precise shots with the gatling gun, which means another 50% chance for an Ap2 shot that this time DOES auto-wound.

That means, on average, you should expect to put one Ap2 wound on the model of your choice, with a roughly even chance of doing it twice as not at all. Plus, you also will usually get another two S5 Ap- hits on the model of your choice as well, including that huge pile of hits and wound which will allow you to pick out "hidden" stuff with just wound allocation.

On a tank that's already good against everything.

And the only cost is being forced to take another leman russ to put him with. Boo hoo.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Raxmei wrote:
Probably been pointed out before, but tank commanders being characters means they can make precision shots. Pask in a Punisher with all the bolters would be rolling on average just under five sixes a turn.

As if we needed another reason to run him.

Not only are his sixes rending, but you can also assign these conveniently rending shots.

6s to hit are Precision, 6s to wound are Rending. You have a 1 in 36 chance of getting both.

especially with a heavy 20 rending weapon...

I think the pask punisher just became the first thing in our new codex that's actually overpowered. Which is a shame, because I like the idea of a pask punisher.

I think it's fair for the points and the short range. In the sisters codex, I can put 8 heavy bolters that rend for 2 turns on the table for 244 points, that's 24 shots at 36", but they are squishier and can run out of uses of their abilities. Getting Pask that close to the enemy makes him vulnerable to being charged unless you spend even more points to bubble-wrap him, at which point, he had better be murdering things.