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After playing my first game with the new Guard, I'm left seriously considering bringing only 2x plasma/melta on my vets, backed up by a heavy flamer. I can never shoot all three out the hatch at once, so the third weapon is only useful disembarked. However, the heavy flamer adds some genuine versatility when dismounted too; 2x specials and a heavy flamer is still pretty damn good compared to most troop choices in game. Its also nice versatility if you happen up against a horde army for shooting the heavy flamer out the hatch instead.

At 10pts, its a pretty good deal now. I know that in my last game I would have enjoyed the template weapon, seeing as I rarely got to shoot all three specials even after disembarking. Anyone have any experiences on the matter, or even general theory hammer? All of my theoretical lists/shopping list for my army are planned around 3x specials still, but I'm seriously considering doing up a bunch of heavy flamer dudes.

I can see dropping a plasma/melta in chimera vet squads. The 10-15 points you save can buy a LOT. But if you're going to cut one, I cannot imagine then replacing it with a heavy flamer. You still can't fire it while embarked, and it has grossly different ideal targets than plasma and melta once you get out, so the unit will be forced to fire sub-optimally. I say 2 or 3 specials makes sense for different reasons, but I would never mix them in a squad.

I think it wouldn't be a bad idea. (Best to play test it)

It at least makes for an ok assault deterrent as well as a back up anti infantry weapon.

 Blacksails wrote:
After playing my first game with the new Guard, I'm left seriously considering bringing only 2x plasma/melta on my vets, backed up by a heavy flamer. I can never shoot all three out the hatch at once, so the third weapon is only useful disembarked. However, the heavy flamer adds some genuine versatility when dismounted too; 2x specials and a heavy flamer is still pretty damn good compared to most troop choices in game. Its also nice versatility if you happen up against a horde army for shooting the heavy flamer out the hatch instead.

At 10pts, its a pretty good deal now. I know that in my last game I would have enjoyed the template weapon, seeing as I rarely got to shoot all three specials even after disembarking. Anyone have any experiences on the matter, or even general theory hammer? All of my theoretical lists/shopping list for my army are planned around 3x specials still, but I'm seriously considering doing up a bunch of heavy flamer dudes.

I would be very interested in reading about how they worked out if you did so.

 daedalus wrote:


I would be very interested in reading about how they worked out if you did so.

I would too!

Unfortunately, my entire IG collection has a new owner, and I likely won't play another game for another few months while I figure out my move to a new province.

Hence why I've come to you lovely lot to see if anyone has either tried it, or plans on trying it, and reporting back for further analysis.

Fair enough. I'll play counts-as with my regular flamers and report back after. I expect I'll get to play sometime next week, though I might lucky and get a game in this weekend.

I don't hate the idea of the HF as a third option. I think it matches up against a lot of targets just fine, any infantry, even heavy, is a good target for a heavy flamer. It's not good against MCs, but that can still be okay. If you view the vets as "short range firepower delivery" instead of MC/tank killers, then it's got a spot. If you only want your vets going after MCs/tanks, then you leave it at home.

I keep thinking about in on the CCS, certainly. You can take an Astropath, plasma gun, and heavy flamer, and have a pretty good spread of powerful, short ranged weapons for your CCS.

I would consider running two specials and a heavy flamer.

two specials allow you to use the two fire points and the heavy flamer can be used on overwatch if the vehicle gets assaulted.

Or if they dont want to get out and use the flamer to clear some area it offers a lot of versatility.

I did the 2 specials/ heavy flamer combo in my first game with the new Codex. I fired it as overwatch from a chimera hatch along with a Plasma Gun. It did 2 hits on a unit of plaguebearers who promptly failed their charge. It has it's uses I suppose.

konst80hummel wrote:
I did the 2 specials/ heavy flamer combo in my first game with the new Codex. I fired it as overwatch from a chimera hatch along with a Plasma Gun. It did 2 hits on a unit of plaguebearers who promptly failed their charge. It has it's uses I suppose.

You can overwatch the passengers of a transport vehicle as the vehicle is getting assaulted?

 tomjoad wrote:
I can see dropping a plasma/melta in chimera vet squads. The 10-15 points you save can buy a LOT. But if you're going to cut one, I cannot imagine then replacing it with a heavy flamer. You still can't fire it while embarked, and it has grossly different ideal targets than plasma and melta once you get out, so the unit will be forced to fire sub-optimally. I say 2 or 3 specials makes sense for different reasons, but I would never mix them in a squad.

If you put a hull heavy flamer on the chimera, that would give you two heavy flamers, a multilaser, and two meltas/ plasma. Two heavy flamers would be really handy for clearing an objective, and it can be useful in overwatch I guess.

I'd be more interested in sticking one in a PCS that's deepstriking in from a Valk/vendetta, but I could see it on a meltavet squad that's getting close in a chimera. Wish SWS's could get them. 50pts for a unit with 2 flamers and a heavy flamer would be neat.

Vehicles can not overwatch, only their passengers (limited by fire points).

 Blacksails wrote:
After playing my first game with the new Guard, I'm left seriously considering bringing only 2x plasma/melta on my vets, backed up by a heavy flamer. I can never shoot all three out the hatch at once, so the third weapon is only useful disembarked. However, the heavy flamer adds some genuine versatility when dismounted too; 2x specials and a heavy flamer is still pretty damn good compared to most troop choices in game. Its also nice versatility if you happen up against a horde army for shooting the heavy flamer out the hatch instead.

At 10pts, its a pretty good deal now. I know that in my last game I would have enjoyed the template weapon, seeing as I rarely got to shoot all three specials even after disembarking. Anyone have any experiences on the matter, or even general theory hammer? All of my theoretical lists/shopping list for my army are planned around 3x specials still, but I'm seriously considering doing up a bunch of heavy flamer dudes.

That's the same build I'm planning on using.

2 plasma, heavy flamer, with shotgun vets in a chimera. Can use the lasgun arrays while embarked and the plasma from the hatch. Disembark and lay down the law with shotguns and heavy flamer.

Hey guys, wanted to pose a question. Is the Aegis Defense Line still an auto-take if you have a platoon or two? My Guard is usually a little bit of Mech and a little bit of Platoon, but I always take the Aegis line to protect my command squad and my Platoon. Oftentimes I am playing at a local GW, so it has the standard fare for terrain, craters, mostly forests, and a few of those "L" shaped ruins with one or two stories, but thats really it. Is the Aegis still worth the 50 points?

I'd say that it isn't worth the 50 points, but that it is worth 100. I'm still including it in my lists because I like it for anti-air. Otherwise, I'd drop it for a Skyshield in a heartbeat.

I find the ADL very useful, simply as having good cover where you want it is far better than relying on the setup to do that for you.

The Quad-Gun is also nice to give a Commander/Commissar something to do with his better BS, and Forward Sentries+ADL gives you a 3+ cover save rather cheaply.

Not to mention that you can order the squad in the gun to ignore cover or have tank hunters.

I basically never use the ADL with my IG since I don't play defensively because I both hate the trend and because I don't rate it. IG at mid/long range mostly just have their pie plates and you've got a couple of iffy standard issue Imperial heavy weapons. Your Guardsmen aren't even paying to be meatshields fully because you have cover you can sit behind and the ADL. If your opponent isn't playing super aggressive at least some of your firepower is being wasted.

I don't usually spam my Heavy Supports to shoot (no pun intended) for overwhelming firepower, I have 2-3 Russes to work as a chisel against threats like infantry and MC's in support of my elements like Chimeras. I've heard some people put the Chimeras in front of the Russes, but I do the opposite, allowing the scoring units to not get molested by AT/Anti-Infantry in their transports full stop with LOS blockage.

I like to deploy the aegis between deployment and mid field and then advance into it for the first turn, gives me a solid foundation to fire from, more things are in range and I can safely bunker down.

Well, I guess you could deploy it on the center line, attach a scout to a blob to advance it 6" then first turn move up to the wall.

Not sure about how i feel about chimeras being bumped in price. although using a taurox instead gives me the excuse to convert haldtracks for my guard

So I just thought of a good combo, not sure if anyone posted this yet. If you are the kind of player to run 9-15 heavy weapons teams, take creed, take kell, take a regimental standard, and now your ignores cover orders are on Ld8 rerolabble, and you re roll morale checks. Maybe not tournement worthy, but a definite slightly trolltastic firepower combo.

Kell comes with a standard.

Consider how many points you've paid for Creed+Kell. Now consider how many commissars you can have for those points.

How are you going to fit 9-15 large bases in cover in a 12 inch bubble around Creed?

Yea Commisars are where its at. I am seriously looking at them for most of my needs instead of priests. Priests only help in CC really, with yarrick and commisars you get orders off more reliably, are not running from shooting anyway and can still go to ground.

 daedalus wrote:
Kell comes with a standard.

Consider how many points you've paid for Creed+Kell. Now consider how many commissars you can have for those points.

How are you going to fit 9-15 large bases in cover in a 12 inch bubble around Creed?

It's possible, you only need 1 base in range for the order anyway. True, but is anyone taking enough command squads to get 4 commissars? I guess a lord commy could help out with ld10 orders?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Yea Commisars are where its at. I am seriously looking at them for most of my needs instead of priests. Priests only help in CC really, with yarrick and commisars you get orders off more reliably, are not running from shooting anyway and can still go to ground.

G2G is huge in my meta. Haven't had a blob down past 20 men since my game with tau in march, and that's cause I didn't kill their marker lights.

The few times I've played in the past year has seen alot of g2g as well, hence my love of hellhounds. Only problem is getting them up field to get to work. I suspect once I finish moving I'll see if wyverns can take their place so I can start clearing cover guaranteed turn one instead of sometimes having to wait turn two on bigger tables.

I prefer to use commissars over priests from a thematic point of view, but they are much easier to kill. A couple of precision shots can kill a commissar, whereas a priest gets a better LoS! and invulnerable save.

 Trickstick wrote:
I prefer to use commissars over priests from a thematic point of view, but they are much easier to kill. A couple of precision shots can kill a commissar, whereas a priest gets a better LoS! and invulnerable save.

Comissar doesn't give up first blood so far as I can tell.

I'd run both personally - for 50 pts you get fearless and ld9 war hymns.

Both negates the point of the commissar. If you are really worried about precision shots I would just hide him outside of LOS so they cant be allocated to him anyway.

Yeah, if you're thinking both, you could just add an inquisitor with 0 upgrades. He's Ld10, and an IC for the better LOS!