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Mavnas wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Yep, my first question is usually how many blasts they got. That determines how much effort I put into spacing. Also thank god puppet master is going. I lost 40 guardsmen to my wyvern...

What you really need is invisibility... it would make answering the blasts question really easy

I agree, however I don't want to build my strategy around something that unreliable. I am thinking 6 mastery levels total in my army with 4 levels I actually plan to cast

If you really want invisibility Tigurius is the safe bet.

 schadenfreude wrote:
If you really want invisibility Tigurius is the safe bet.

Sevrin Loth is a good choice too, as he can select his powers with no risk at all. You can combine invisibility with shrouding and be very hard to kill.

So I just looked into stronghold assault since it is the only source for fortifications now.

Ammo dumps let you re-roll ones for everyone within two.

So now just get within 2 inches of a ammo dump with any blast based weapon they get to re-roll everything. So don't need prescience anymore for plasma cutioners, just invest the 50 points in an aegis, and then 20 points in an ammo dump. Throw in camo cloaks and now you have 3+ cover saves and re-roll anything. Best part, ammo dumps cant be destroyed.

Anyone notice that ordnance no longer makes vehicles snap fire? Sponsons for everyone!

 generalchaos34 wrote:
Anyone notice that ordnance no longer makes vehicles snap fire? Sponsons for everyone!

It does. Look in the vehicle shooting bit.

I heard the heavy USR allows ordinance + regular weapons to be fired. Great news for treadheads.

 schadenfreude wrote:
I heard the heavy USR allows ordinance + regular weapons to be fired. Great news for treadheads.

Well, It at least makes them more appealing, but honestly, comparing the points prices, I'm still not won over. The Demolisher is 15 points more than an Executioner, the LRBT 5 points less, only the Demolisher really has anything significant to offer over the Executioner but still loses out on the Anti-MC capability and you have to pay more.

 schadenfreude wrote:
I heard the heavy USR allows ordinance + regular weapons to be fired. Great news for treadheads.

Correction: the restriction on vehicles firing ordnance is still in place. All other shots must be snap shots. The text is unchanged. There's nothing under heavy vehicles that exempts them from the rule.

 TheSilo wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
I heard the heavy USR allows ordinance + regular weapons to be fired. Great news for treadheads.

Reading it, there only seems to be restrictions on non-vehicle models.

Which means, MOAR DAKKA! Also i noticed that flamers can fry the occupants of an open topped transport as well. So while flamers can't toast vehicles to explode very well (not that they ever had) now your hellhounds can fry up Orks, necrons, and Dark Eldar for dinner.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
I heard the heavy USR allows ordinance + regular weapons to be fired. Great news for treadheads.

Reading it, there only seems to be restrictions on non-vehicle models.

Which means, MOAR DAKKA! Also i noticed that flamers can fry the occupants of an open topped transport as well. So while flamers can't toast vehicles to explode very well (not that they ever had) now your hellhounds can fry up Orks, necrons, and Dark Eldar for dinner.

Reading through, nothing has changed from 6th. All vehicles firing ordnance are only allowed to snap shot with other weapons, whether that vehicle is heavy or not.

No, Vehicles can only make snap shots when firing ordnance.

Page 73

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Lololo umad? Umad-umad-umad?

Lolololo are you 12?

The fact that here you're literally using it as a trigger response without me even being obviously agitated only goes to show that you're a pot calling a white tea cup black with the latter part. Does this in itself make me mad? Nah. In fact I'm satisfied with reading this statement since you've denigrated your appearance to that of a pubescent child having just discovered internet memes.

I could have just replaced this with the Navy Seal copy pasta. Think of how much effort that would have taken, and how smart and matured that would have me seem. Gee.

>Not agitated.

>Paragraph-long rant in response to 1 and a half words.

k.

Getting effectively 46~+ automatic S3 hits on a Psyker's unit from 24'' away, combined with a 6'' scout, 6'' move, in the preceding turn MMM and in that turn possibly FFTE so they can't evade as easily means distance is not such an issue with that strategy, so long as your deployment is competent. Maybe it'll take 1-2 turns to get there, but still, Psykers are probably the most long lasting models you can get and don't often get massacred by turn 3 or even 2 - alternatively the mere threat or deterrent can restrict their movement, particularly with Psychic MC's.

With FRFSRF you're getting 90~+ automatic S3 hits max in the higher end of the spectrum at 24'' and maybe around 50-60-70 if not all are in range and FRFSRF is in effect.

As a Daemons player, I can't say this sounds terribly frightening to me. That's a lot of points you're investing into a unit that I can effectively cripple with one or two flickering fires, and since they're coming to me, and not the other way around, I'll almost definitely get in range to hit it before it hits me.

Vacuum, and all that. But I'll be playing against someone who is using this type of blob in a tournament this weekend. So we'll see.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Lololo umad? Umad-umad-umad?

Lolololo are you 12?

The fact that here you're literally using it as a trigger response without me even being obviously agitated only goes to show that you're a pot calling a white tea cup black with the latter part. Does this in itself make me mad? Nah. In fact I'm satisfied with reading this statement since you've denigrated your appearance to that of a pubescent child having just discovered internet memes.

I could have just replaced this with the Navy Seal copy pasta. Think of how much effort that would have taken, and how smart and matured that would have me seem. Gee.

>Not agitated.

>Paragraph-long rant in response to 1 and a half words.

k.

Getting effectively 46~+ automatic S3 hits on a Psyker's unit from 24'' away, combined with a 6'' scout, 6'' move, in the preceding turn MMM and in that turn possibly FFTE so they can't evade as easily means distance is not such an issue with that strategy, so long as your deployment is competent. Maybe it'll take 1-2 turns to get there, but still, Psykers are probably the most long lasting models you can get and don't often get massacred by turn 3 or even 2 - alternatively the mere threat or deterrent can restrict their movement, particularly with Psychic MC's.

With FRFSRF you're getting 90~+ automatic S3 hits max in the higher end of the spectrum at 24'' and maybe around 50-60-70 if not all are in range and FRFSRF is in effect.

I wouldn't say so. As a Daemons player, I can't say this sounds terribly frightening to me. That's a lot of points you're investing into a unit that I can effectively cripple with one or two flickering fires, and since they're coming to me, and not the other way around, I'll almost definitely get in range to hit it before it hits me.

Vacuum, and all that. But I'll be playing against someone who is using this type of blob in a tournament this weekend. So we'll see.

What can I say; posts like that are fun.

I just want to draw attention to the fact you're saying "That I can effectively cripple with two flickering fires" and "vacuum" in the same post to denigrate my argument.

How many units with one or more Psykers can cripple a blob of Guardsmen just like that? Even with T3, I now only need to give some of the models cover (Focus fire is gone) and area terrain is flat out gone, making it far easier to do so without crippling movement.

If the flickering fire is from a different unit, I can always neutralise that if it is a threat, and failing that, you're not shooting at anything else with those presumably powerful units.

The point to bringing up vacuum was to preemptively acknowledge that this conscript blob isn't sitting in the middle of an empty field with no other supporting units on the table. Once you start bringing in arguments about threat saturation (if you shoot at these guys then you're not shooting at these others guys) and "you move this way I move these guys that way", etc. you're delving into a realm of hypothetical discussion that is much murkier, which isn't something I'm going to do.

Having not yet gotten on my hands on a 7E book, isn't cover on a by-model basis now? I'm dubious of the notion that you'd be able to hide the bulk of them behind cover; we're talking about a 50+ model squad here, afterall.

Ramming is now a viable tactic. A Leman Russ does a str10 hit when it rams. It can also take a dozer blade, so that it counts as av15 against the return hit. I am really thinking over trying a full ABG list again, as troop Russes can score and have objective secured. Both of the ABG's main weaknesses have been reduced now: it has access to decent scoring units and the effect of melta has been significantly reduced. Sure, you still pay more than AM tanks until a FW FAQ comes out, but it is a lot better than it was last week.

I did make a fun 1500 list, just to see if an armoured assault could work:

Command Vanquisher - Lascannon, Meltas, Co-ax stubber, beast-hunter shells

3x Demolishers - Heavy Flamer, Dozer Blade

Vulture - Punishers

Stormsword - 4x HB/LC sponsons