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2014/04/14 06:31:37
Subject: Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
TheMeanDM wrote: Some have asked how the government can maintain secrets as well and as long as they have and do.
Just an example:
A week or so ago I was talking with one of our local officers. Known the guy for close to 10 years. Knew he was in the navy and did some work on subs.
So we were talking and I asked him what subs and kinds he had been on. He said a few names (Los Angeles among them) and then said "And a couple others I can't talk about".
He's been out of the navy for 20+years....and yet still maintains the secrecy.
Those are the types of people the government and military seek out, train, etc.
But that isn't a really good example. This guy probably never did anything really interesting that anyone outside of his friends would care about, so it's easy to keep the secrets. Nobody's going to lose any sleep over the fact that they were on a sub somewhere and the exact route they took isn't public knowledge. But that's not at all the same thing as trying to get someone to cover up, say, the US government organizing the 9/11 attacks, or keeping UFOs and alien corpses. That's the kind of thing that no moral person could keep to themselves, and even a single leak would be enough to destroy the entire conspiracy.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/04/14 06:50:23
Subject: Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
And it's not like a lot of the 'facts' used in support of said theories are either completely made up, or based on blatantly obvious misunderstandings.
A good one is the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy where people claim FDR allowed the attack to happen so he could declare war on Germany, which makes so little sense on its face and even less when you dig into it it's hard not to go House on their ass;
I believe the History channel, everything that is unexplained and fishy, Aliens did it, it is not the government that is slowly enriching the one per-centers, it is not the government that is slowly eroding the citizens rights, it is all Aliens! We must Hunt and expose them!
I believe the History channel, everything that is unexplained and fishy, Aliens did it, it is not the government that is slowly enriching the one per-centers, it is not the government that is slowly eroding the citizens rights, it is all Aliens! We must Hunt and expose them!
I once saw a documentary on the history channel trying to say that big foot was the original human, and we are the result of being mated with aliens. The reason big foot is in hiding is because they are scared of us "not humans" that tried to wipe them out many years ago. Documentaries like that should always be played. So funny.
2014/04/14 07:52:10
Subject: Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
I believe that conspiracies do happen, however, I think they are almost always small scale. For example- the 9/11 conspiracy. A small group of islamic fundamentalist terrorists conspired to crash some planes into landmark US buildings.
Larger conspiracies would be impossible to keep secret for any amount of time. And usually, they are overly complex to achieve the stated goals. If the US government wanted to "false flag" some islamic terrorists, there are a million ways it could have done so more easily (and with less cost to the US economy) than by flying planes into the towers. Hell, even just planting bombs in the right places would have been easier to pull off, and could easily still have been blamed on islamic fundamentalist groups. Why go through all the extra hassle?
I have several co-workers who are conspiracy theorists, and it bugs me no end. I feel it's somewhat like a mild mental illness.
That being said, I feel the same about people who think that climate change is a giant scam "for the money". I mean, let's just look at which set of vested interests in that conversation is more likely to be motivated by money here...
personally I feel like anything on the radio show Coast to Coast is total gak and can be ignored as idiocy, but it makes for good listening.
oh any my personal hatreds are vaccines and global warming, how dense can they be? but I do love it when people will talk about the massive conspiracy needed for Vaccines to be bad, and then use either WHO or the CDC as an authority for information( contradiction much?)
are you going to keep talking about it, or do something already?
2014/04/14 17:31:21
Subject: Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
I believe the History channel, everything that is unexplained and fishy, Aliens did it, it is not the government that is slowly enriching the one per-centers, it is not the government that is slowly eroding the citizens rights, it is all Aliens! We must Hunt and expose them!
I once saw a documentary on the history channel trying to say that big foot was the original human, and we are the result of being mated with aliens. The reason big foot is in hiding is because they are scared of us "not humans" that tried to wipe them out many years ago. Documentaries like that should always be played. So funny.
That reminded me of the southpark episode about how aliens visited the pilgrims. So funneh.
2014/04/14 18:12:53
Subject: Re:Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
Seaward wrote: Don't fool yourself into thinking you know what's going on in this world. The first duty of power is to perpetuate itself, and we don't even know who the actual powerful people are. Truman started the whole American tradition of secrecy after WWII, with Project Paperclip, in which the CIA put captured Nazi scientists to work on America's nuclear arsenal, the space program, and all this "otherworldly" technology they'd come across. (And you know what I mean.) Then they got Truman to create the super-secret Majestic 12 committee to oversee Project Paperclip, not to mention other weird stuff the government wanted hidden. They ran the whole thing, and they've been running it for years, but nobody knows who "they" are. But I'm pretty sure they're all Freemasons.
The whole Kennedy thing is so huge because it's at the center of so many other covert shadow-government operations. Kennedy himself was the smallest part of it, because it was actually a power play between Dulles' CIA, the anti-Castro military, LBJ, the Giancana Mafia, and a bunch of other dirty players. Oswald was a patsy, sure, but he put a gun on Jack. Of course, so did other test-mules from Dulles' MK-Ultra LSD-mind-control experiments. Zapruder was in on it, too: He was a KGB mole from way back. And the whole thing had ripple effects, like Jonestown, which was an assassin training camp that got found out. As for the Warren Commission, that thing was a joke—Dulles himself was on it, and there was only one person on the whole commission who wasn't on the CIA payroll and suspected Oswald didn't act alone. He died in a plane crash, after a young congressional aide named Bill Clinton drove him to the airport. It's all true, but nobody wants to admit it. Nobody.
Now, Roswell, that's a bunch of crap. The Air Force was in possession of captured alien technology years before that. In '43, they started reverse-engineering a torus-shaped craft that came down in Arizona, and the next thing you know, America has The Bomb, supersonic aircraft, and a space program. Glenn saw stuff up there, flying lights. You can look it up. You know what I think? I think that skirt-chaser Kennedy wanted to spill the beans about our alien friends, so they killed him. He told his girlfriend Marilyn Monroe, and they killed her, too. No doubt, you're wondering, "Who are 'they'?" Well, I think the numbers speak for themselves: The Trinity site, where the first A-bomb was detonated; Dealey Plaza, where Kennedy bought the farm; and Area 51 are all on the 33rd parallel. And what other significance does the number 33 happen to have? It's the highest rank of the Masonic order. Wheels within wheels, my friend. Wheels within wheels.
I am going to turn this into a Conspiracy X game. In homage, somewhere in my game will be a Top Secret Project Seaward.
2014/04/14 18:48:51
Subject: Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
Games Workshop issued White Dwarf rules that made flamers the most awesome unit ever to boost sales for clearing warehouse space, then promptly neutered the unit when the 6th edition codex hit a few months later when they sold enough of them.
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
2014/04/14 20:02:56
Subject: Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: He let the family know who he worked for when he retired (we had always assumed it was the CIA) and while he has never exactly said what he did, I assume he was a field officer because he carried a firearm (most CIA employees do not).
Field officers don't, either.
Well, I can say this: ever since I found out he had indeed worked for the CIA when he retired in early 2001, I figured he was part of the Directorate of Operations (now called the National Clandestine Service) based on his military background and where I knew he had traveled while working for the government. Even though I know he has extensive expertise in firearms, I don't think he was part of the Special Activities Division. He has since gone back to work for the government (the Agency again) as a firearms and he works in the Norfolk area.
I've installed and repaired heating and cooling systems in plenty of SCIFs and other such areas for all sorts of friendly people (CIA, FBI, DoD, DoC, etc.) and I can say that most "classified" stuff I've been around isn't that glamorous... it's usually just a bunch people slaving away in cube farms.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2014/04/14 22:22:22
Subject: Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
I've installed and repaired heating and cooling systems in plenty of SCIFs and other such areas for all sorts of friendly people (CIA, FBI, DoD, DoC, etc.) and I can say that most "classified" stuff I've been around isn't that glamorous... it's usually just a bunch people slaving away in cube farms.
Agreed. I've been in a couple "Classified" areas and the vast majority of Classified stuff is pretty routine and boring stuff.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2014/04/15 01:36:29
Subject: Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Well, I can say this: ever since I found out he had indeed worked for the CIA when he retired in early 2001, I figured he was part of the Directorate of Operations (now called the National Clandestine Service) based on his military background and where I knew he had traveled while working for the government. Even though I know he has extensive expertise in firearms, I don't think he was part of the Special Activities Division. He has since gone back to work for the government (the Agency again) as a firearms and he works in the Norfolk area.
Maybe, but clandestine guys ain't issued guns, either. If he was lugging a CIA-issued gun around in the States, my money would be on Protective Services, their internal Secret Service analogue.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/15 01:36:42
2014/04/15 02:25:24
Subject: Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
kronk wrote: I took the Scientology test, filled the little cup they gave me in the back room and my midichlorian count was off the chart!
I'm a Jedi or something!
The second coming of Anakin is upon us!
Oh lord. Do we have to sit through three movies worth of cutesy/whiny/broody garbage before he becomes a total badass?
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2014/04/15 05:42:21
Subject: Re:Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
2014/04/15 06:44:26
Subject: Re:Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
The saddest, funniest, most absurd thing is I have an idiot at my work which is always fumbling with his job and he believes in every conspiracy theory (those were his words). Every....single....one (including the reptiloid politicians from space I think).
Yeah we all think he's nuts. I think in one case he even thought a tornado was a cover up by the government.
So yeah my work basically has a 'tin foil hat man'.
------------
As for myself I believe in no conspiracy theories I've heard of. Usually the right answer is the most boring one. Maybe not always but usually. Whenever people can't explain something they jump to conclusions like thinking they saw a UFO, big foot or the government did something.
Even if any of these were true people that let these conspiracies consume their lives go crazy and waste their life. Is there anything wrong with being happy with what you've got?
Considering the things the government seems to fail to do on a much smaller level I highly doubt they have some super convoluted plan that is working absolutely flawlessly. It's just f*cking stupid. I almost wish these conspiracy nuts would go home, shut up and be ashamed of all these BS theories being thrown around on the internet. Chances are if they stayed locked in their homes they'd go even crazier though.
------------
The only one or two theories I've ever heard which even slightly seemed off was about kennedy but info seems to suggest just one gunman. Sometimes not all the details are really clear. It happens.
The other theory wasn't really a theory so much that things just seemed a little fishy at one point with the 'gun control' or something and maybe one shooting or similar. It was probably either it being brought up because something happened or it happened to be the yearly hot debate of guns being drawn up again and they needed to focus on one shooting as an example. As if the people that died that day wanted to be used for political purposes to further a politician's agenda.
Actually I don't think it was a shooting I was suspicious of. I can't remember what it was but something didn't feel right about something. It could probably be explained with enough time and evidence though. As I said I don't really believe in any of these stupid theories.
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I have a theory though not really a conspiracy that might true. It's not really far off and probably obvious for some.
I think the war in Iraq was partly as a way of killing two birds with one stone. I feel like the U.S. mostly invaded to take Iraq out of the equation while simultaneously having bases surrounding iran and therefore putting pressure on them in case they decided to do something really stupid. It wouldn't necessarily be war but perhaps embargo on the country. If we surround them it'd really hurt the country.
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Then again I'm just some dude and I don't know too much so whatever.
poppa G wrote: I find that a lot of them are more than likely true. The main ones for me would be 9-11 and the Sandy Hook shooting.
Shut up! You're no longer allowed to think.
;P
Sorry but 9/11 as a conspiracy theory. Come on man.
I don't mean to be mean just think a little more. Plus I just feel like that line i just used is classic even if I don't mean to be so harsh.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/04/15 07:56:51
poppa G wrote: I find that a lot of them are more than likely true. The main ones for me would be 9-11 and the Sandy Hook shooting.
I can tell without even reading the rest of this thread that there will be fun times ahead.
Fun in the context of dwarf fortress that is.
In any case; no. The more convoluted the logic that is needed to make them work, the less likely I'll believe them.
Things like Lizard people, Alien butt probing, Mole Men, and Atlantis are adorable. Things like 9/11 truthers, Pearl Harbor conspiracists, Vaccine/ARVs just keep you sickers, or Holocaust deniers are disgusting.
Never attribute to malice and conspiracy what can be just as easily if not more easily explained by incompetence and stupidity.
As for 9/11, not only are the physics that the truthers quote completely wrong (jet fuel may not burn hot enough to melt steel, but it is enough to soften it to the point of easily collapsing under most any pressure...such as the building's own weight), but the amount of effort that would need to go into disguising this conspiracy for thirteen years is monumental.
Someone did some napkin calculations of how much money it would take to hush up everyone who could spill the beens and came up to five trillion USD (well beyond the U.S governments financial abilities then or now) assuming a bribe of ten million dollars per person. And this entire house of cards would come crashing down if anyone broke their silence. In addition; moving that much money around is going to get noticed and noticed fast. There's a reason why criminals put so much effort into money laundering.
Not to mention that the amount of effort it would take to plant evidence to fool just about every reputable independent investigation would be colossal. To the point that we're not even talking about humans pulling off this conspiracy, but psychic gremlins from the 8th dimension. The U.S Government just isn't competent enough to pull something like this, no government is or was or likely will be.
And all this effort for what?
Two wars of little to no political or financial gain?
Come on, the 9/11 truthers are certifiably crazy.
And if these conspiracies did happen; why can't rival governments uncover them but a bunch of paranoid geeks with too much free time can?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jihadin wrote: Hey Curran. Area51 perfect example for you. We all can see it but no idea what's really in it.
Governments have been hiding the capabilities of their military aircraft from the wider world since military aviation was a thing for reasons that should be obvious.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/04/15 09:02:58
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
2014/04/16 15:02:29
Subject: Re:Conspiracies. Do you believe any to be true?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
