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Paradigm wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I wonder if the people proposing Str 7 antitank weapons realize that the very same tanks they plan on bringing are literally immune.

You guys realize how much AV14 is going to start appearing on tables with this codex, right?

Guard are the only codex that are going to be bringing AV14 en masse, and against Marines Exterminators will obliterate Rhino-chassis vehicles with ease, against Eldar they are a good way to put glances on AV12 thanks to the good RoF, against Crons they're great once you pen the shields, and against Tau the AP4 (combined with HB) can hurt their infantry as well as a Demolisher can.

Even against IG, they'll be hurting Chimera-chassis vehicles pretty badly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Biophysical wrote:
They're proposing autocannons because they're good guns in Exterminator form. A unit doesn't have to kill itself to be good, and splitting fire is an option with Tank Commanders.

Now I am back to being confused - is it better to take tanks of similar capabilities in a Tank Commander squadron, or to take variant capabilities and then rely on getting the Split Fire order?

I think a mix of both. As I demonstrated a few posts back, the Vanquisher and Exterminators have a good amount of overlap, but are also proficient on their own.

I really really really think you're overestimating the utility of Str 7 guns against Armor 11 and 12. Let's say 8 twinlinked shots at BS3 from, say, some exterminators: That'd be six hits, and three pens/glances on AV11. That means one dead rhino a turn, barring cover, from 300odd points of Leman Russ. Against armor 12, it's six hits and then one pen, perhaps one glance. Not even a dead Chimera, even without cover. And certainly not any good at all against Eldar, what with their vehicles having jink. I really really don't think it's worth it.

Biophysical wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Biophysical wrote:
They're proposing autocannons because they're good guns in Exterminator form. A unit doesn't have to kill itself to be good, and splitting fire is an option with Tank Commanders.

Now I am back to being confused - is it better to take tanks of similar capabilities in a Tank Commander squadron, or to take variant capabilities and then rely on getting the Split Fire order?

I think you take tanks with some overlap but different specialties. You can cover a wide range of threats and make use of both split firing and single target firing. I don't really think there are that many terrible ways to run TC squadrons, though. I'd just stay away from gross range disparities. That's just an opinion, though

I agree, especially on the range issue. This does, of course, rule out a lot of combinations, however, as the ranges available to the Leman Russ are quite diverse.

I said Punisher with sponson Plasma, the re-rolls help keep it from damaging itself.

Followed closely by the Heavy Bolter sponsons for model specialization.

 Atheos wrote:
So the Preferred Enemy does allow the Get hot re-rolls or ?

Just to point out and/or confirm, but Pask's warlord trait only kicks in if he's the warlord right? It's a good one, but personally, I prefer taking my chances with a d6 roll and haivng a CCS being the boss than the obvious shot magnet that is Pask..

I feel like there could be merit to paskplasmaboat with plasma buddies if pask is the warlord.

15 plasma blasts with rerolls of 1 (unless you deal with multiple codex's which could be a pain) with 3 of them blinding is generally enough to kill just about anything short of av 14. and potential gravy for rerolling the blasts depending on which side of the the whole blast and PE thing.

Here's a thought: with a guy following behind to give Pask's punisher PotMS you could pop two tanks with just him (assume melta sponsons and a las cannon). Not sure what his squad mate(s) should be, but you could theoretically pop 3 tanks per turn or use the Gatling cannon to sweep away infantry that's coming into charge range while popping tanks further away.

Pask's best setup depends on if he's a warlord or not (in the short run guard are more likely to be my allied detachment) and if you have a div psyker. If he's not in a punisher and not your warlord, I question if the 40 to upgrade the generic guy wouldn't be better spent be better put towards getting a psyker.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 rabidguineapig wrote:
Preferred enemy shouldn't allow you to re-roll the scatter, however.

It (almost) certainly does. There's a thread in YMDC, I think on the first page.

Nice! I enjoy being corrected when it makes things more awesome haha

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Atheos wrote:
So the Preferred Enemy does allow the Get hot re-rolls or ?

Just to point out and/or confirm, but Pask's warlord trait only kicks in if he's the warlord right? It's a good one, but personally, I prefer taking my chances with a d6 roll and haivng a CCS being the boss than the obvious shot magnet that is Pask..

Also, he only gets preferred enemy against a single codex. So you have to make sure you have that codex as your target, with allies and dataslates around. That does bring up the interesting point of whether or not formations count as codexes.

I was thinking some more about a vanquisher and exterminator squadron. The problem I am having is that all of the turrets are twin-linked, which seems like a waste as you can use prescience pretty easily with all of the divination.

What is the BS of the tanks in the command squadron with Pask?

 Pak40. wrote:
What is the BS of the tanks in the command squadron with Pask?

BS3, as they do not also have a Tank Commander.

 rabidguineapig wrote:

 Pak40. wrote:
What is the BS of the tanks in the command squadron with Pask?

BS3, as they do not also have a Tank Commander.

But importantly they will have PE:"Choose" so useful if not downright nasty. A potential target for a DIV Priest or as I like to call them, Legio Intelligentarum.

Razerous wrote:

 rabidguineapig wrote:

 Pak40. wrote:
What is the BS of the tanks in the command squadron with Pask?

BS3, as they do not also have a Tank Commander.

But importantly they will have PE:"Choose" so useful if not downright nasty. A potential target for a DIV Priest or as I like to call them, Legio Intelligentarum.

Very true, and this is probably the only place I will run executioners. I also like the large blast that Pask gets, he can spit out a pie plate and two small blasts with re-rollable gets hot and scatter but dear god is it expensive haha. You also might not even need divination depending on the type of tanks you choose, it's really only useful on vanquishers where you need to make every shot count and punishers because of the amount of dakka. Anything with a blast and preferred enemy gets the re-roll scatter apparently, and exterminators are already twin-linked.

 Trickstick wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Atheos wrote:
So the Preferred Enemy does allow the Get hot re-rolls or ?

Just to point out and/or confirm, but Pask's warlord trait only kicks in if he's the warlord right? It's a good one, but personally, I prefer taking my chances with a d6 roll and haivng a CCS being the boss than the obvious shot magnet that is Pask..

Also, he only gets preferred enemy against a single codex. So you have to make sure you have that codex as your target, with allies and dataslates around. That does bring up the interesting point of whether or not formations count as codexes.

I was thinking some more about a vanquisher and exterminator squadron. The problem I am having is that all of the turrets are twin-linked, which seems like a waste as you can use prescience pretty easily with all of the divination.

Formations almost certainly count as the codex from which the units are from. Look for rules about allies. I would hope something in there handles that.

I'm thinking Pask Punisher w/ Lascannon and Multi-Meltas, and Executioner w/ either MMs or Heavy Bolters.

This covers a pretty wide threat band if they have to shoot the same target. With MM sponsons, they can engage anything up to AV14 at 24". Both tanks are incredibly effective against infantry, and both should do a number on MCs.

In a perfect world, you split fire just to avoid oversplattering one unit completely. I think there's a lot of merit to this.




The other option for someone to roll with Pask, IMO, is a Demolisher. Keep it cheap at 170 and leave it up front to take hits. Demolishers generally scare people too so it shouldn't be a hard sell convincing people to shoot at it.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I'm thinking Pask Punisher w/ Lascannon and Multi-Meltas

I'm liking this build more and more. Certainly the punisher for the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread. Seems like it could handle a multitude of targets. Might even be somewhat useful against the occasional flyer that I might face (the nearby divination Psyker might help a bit here too). The multimeltas and lascannon can perhaps assist with the heavier stuff and make use of the bs4.

For the squadron mates, I'm kinda torn between two executioners or two exterminators. Probably without sponsons, or maybe only heavy bolters. I'm not really that keen on plasma sponsons, just because they can't snap fire.

Leaning towards exterminators at the moment. My list is packing two (or three) medusas, so I should already have a few ap2 blasts.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Vanquisher has no blasts, and therefore is quite ineffective against infantry and heavy infantry.

Actually it's decent, if you take MM/PC sponsons and a hull LC. Small blasts aren't hitting all that many models anyway, and all of your shots are wounding on a 2+ and ignoring armor saves. Obviously it's not ideal, but if you fail the split fire order and have to shoot at some MEQs/TEQs with the vanquisher it's not the end of the world.

I'll say that I've played against my friend's Guard allied with either Marines or Orks 3 times thus far and he has fielded Pask with the 20 shot rending main gun, HB sponsons, and 2 buddies with TL Autocannons and HB sponsons. These three tanks put out so many shots that its incredible. Not only that, but with Preferred Enemy and the ability to Split Fire with Pask makes them even more dangerous. Sorry, I'm not up on the different tank type names.

BTW, in the games I played Eldar, Nids, then Chaos Marines (Nurgle) and all were close, me going 1-2 with the losses being by only a couple points overall. Against Wave Serpents, the 20 shots at BS4 and Rending shredded them.

I've tested Pask's squadron as allies to my orkses.

Punisher (2xMM, LC, Dozer) + Eradicator (2xHB, Dozer).

They actually did great. Pask's capable of wasting almost any vehicle in one shooting phase even without prescience while Eradicator is also useful with split-fire orders in my army since orkses don't have fancy ignore-cover stuff. Pask's also putting like ~5 ap1-2 wounds, 2-3 of which are s8-9 and almost the same ammount of regular wounds on t5 models. More regular wounds on lower-t models ofc. That's without prescience.

I can't find if it's been mentioned but I'd like to point out that Pask has precision shots. So it's Preferred Enemy, has 20 shots, and get's rending.

Pask in a Punisher with multi meltas is personally I think the way to go. With 20 rending shots you will be able to handle most infantry already, however add in the 2 multi meltas and now you have the ability to take on a monstrous creatures and any vehicles with much more ease.

in regards to his squadron mates I think the Leman Russ Demolisher, Exterminator and Eradicator all viable options.

Hollismason wrote:
I can't find if it's been mentioned but I'd like to point out that Pask has precision shots. So it's Preferred Enemy, has 20 shots, and get's rending.

Wait what? He has precision shots?

Characters have precision shots lol.

It does say "character" under his unit type. P.92.