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I am building my chaos marines list and I want to put in terminators (I know that chaos terminators are not the best) I play more for fun than competitively but I would still like my termies to dish out some hurt if needed I was looking for a few ways to run them and possibly put them in a land raider in the future to use as a gun boat

I'm an ork and may not know any better but I think one of the kinda cool things I took away from reading about Chaos Termies was that they could take a Claw and a Fist (and I think space marines can't). Pick your initiative order.

Don't quote me though, and yes I know it's edition SHOOT IT NOW.

Terminators are great, whatchu talkin' about?

Terminator + combi-weapon = win. They're CSM's version of sternguard, except that instead of dying like a bunch of Sv3+ pansies, they have 2+/5++ and can smash in faces with power weapons/fists.

If you really want to bring the hurt, large squads with marks and banners can do a lot. My preferred way to use them was a squad of 10 with MoK, IoW, and infiltrated forward with Huron. They still had 10 good shooting attacks (mostly combi-meltas and combi-plasmas), and 10 MoK terminators getting into close combat on turn 2 beat friggin face. Even if they get whittled down, you're still bringing serious hurt in close combat.

Is the icon of vengence a good one for them?

Not if you're going to use them like sternguard (as they'll probably get killed off before they run), or if you're going to keep a lord or other fearless IC stuck in there.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with it. Generally, though, if you're taking squads big enough to warrant an IoV, you're probably going to want to be taking marks and a god-specific banner to really get the most out of them. If you're doing this, though, then you're going to bring a lord as insurance anyways.

I would suggest MoS+IoE. Guys with I5, 2+/5+, and FNP can be rough to take down.

 l0k1 wrote:
I would suggest MoS+IoE. Guys with I5, 2+/5+, and FNP can be rough to take down.

I just got shivers...

I just got taken apart by chaos terminators today. Ouch!

 Alienoid wrote:
I am building my chaos marines list and I want to put in terminators (I know that chaos terminators are not the best) I play more for fun than competitively but I would still like my termies to dish out some hurt if needed I was looking for a few ways to run them and possibly put them in a land raider in the future to use as a gun boat

You give them combi-weapons and nothing else and then suicide drop them in front of your enemy and hope they kill something important.

I run a 5-man unit of Chaos Terminators, LC on Champion and 4x PFs for the rest. It's slow, somewhat expensive and inefficient, but I love them. They always accompany my Chaos Terminator Lord, and if they survive an enemy charge, they hit hard in retaliation.

Anyway, I've been considering replacing the PFs for LCs and adding MoS. There's lots of ranged stuff that can take care of 2+ armour saves and Vehicles, and then the Termies could deal with anything that has a 3+ or worse save, including many MCs.

 l0k1 wrote:
I would suggest MoS+IoE. Guys with I5, 2+/5+, and FNP can be rough to take down.

Yep. And give them lightning claws to really tear things up.

I like to bring a small squad of bikers specifically for chasing down units who flee combat from them. It's incredible for securing kill points.

From a Vet Chaos Player, let me tell you the pros and cons to Chaos Terminators.

Pros ;
-They're Cheap (95 points)
-You get automatic power weapons (Maul/Axe/Lance/Sword)
- 2+/5++ with Deepstrike
- Combi-Plasma spam

Cons ;
- Combi-Plasma spam only works if you Deepstrike within your Rapid Fire range and manage not to wiff your rolls horrendously otherwise, you've wasted 15+ points
- Deepstrikes mishap. And more often than not it's going to cost you valuable resources. (Who wants to chance pissing out 110+ points on 3 models that can just disappear?)
- There are better options in the Elite section now that will helpy you more now.


If I may give some advice. I ran Terminators with Abaddon + Combi Plasma in a LR DT along with Mark of Slaanesh + Icon of Excess, Throw on a dirge caster and things will be hard pressed to take care of you before you roll over them. Don't bother trying to Deep Strike behind enemy lines with these buggers when you can effectively do more with models like Obliterators, or the new Helbrute Formations.

But hey, if you're feeling adventurous, throw the Mark of Nurgle on them and give them their Combi-Plasma's. At least this way after they've blown their tops the enemy HAS to deal with them before the next turn otherwise they WILL get into combat, then the real fun begins.

They do not work well in any practical sense. They are weak to the huge amounts of dakka out there these days, but also weak to AP2, which is common.

They are slow, so you need a Land Raider, which is going to get immobilized the first time it gets shot by some grav guns. Or you could deep strike them, but they won't live to see the charge.

For their points, they do not put out as many shots or attacks as a lot of other things that would cost you the same points, so they have little value against hordes. Mainly they're good against vehicles and MEQ.

The best way to run them is probably three with combi-meltas so they can drop and wreck a vehicle and maybe draw some fire. If you must get them into combat, bring Be'lakor, cast Invis on the Land Raider and pop smoke, and they should get there. A mix of power mauls, axes and a chainfist are your best bet.

DS 3 with combimeltas. It will pop high value artillery or tanks, great for dropping basilisk, hammerheads, fire prisms etc.

4+Lord in a LR with DC is a solid punch and you get a LR with 3 HS slots still open.

DS 10 MoS with Icon or MoT for 4++. 2 HF and 4-6 LC, 2-3 axes and a pfist or two. Can handle anything for a few rounds. Like a 4th heavy support option. Soulblaze and 8 TL bolters aren't bad either.

GoliothOnline wrote:
From a Vet Chaos Player, let me tell you the pros and cons to Chaos Terminators.

Pros ;
-They're Cheap (95 points)
-You get automatic power weapons (Maul/Axe/Lance/Sword)
- 2+/5++ with Deepstrike
- Combi-Plasma spam

Cons ;
- Combi-Plasma spam only works if you Deepstrike within your Rapid Fire range and manage not to wiff your rolls horrendously otherwise, you've wasted 15+ points
- Deepstrikes mishap. And more often than not it's going to cost you valuable resources. (Who wants to chance pissing out 110+ points on 3 models that can just disappear?)
- There are better options in the Elite section now that will helpy you more now.

Additional Pro: Land Raider as a dedicated transport. Not much, but if your HS is full it can be helpful. Hilarious when you have a LR sitting backfield with a min squad of cultists in it. Taking pot shots with the lascannons and otherwise being rather invulnerable for a late game objective grab. It's not a great use of points. 2 lascannons for 230 points is weak, but if you are playing some sort of high point single force org game it isnt terrible

Im not sure there are better elites. Everything better like PM can be made troops in a variety of ways. Helbrutes are better? Elites is the least competitive slot in CSM, nothing like HQ, FA, or even HS.

I like them way better than their loyalist counterparts. Seems like the only useful setup for loyalists is to run hammernators, whereas you have much greater freedom of choice when equipping chaos terminators.

Two ways I've seen them run, both have been kind of scary and difficult to deal with:

1) Squad of 3 with combimeltas and power axes, entering the game through deep stirke. They could reliably destroy one of my vehicles, and then be loose in my back field getting into close combat. Very cheap for what they do (~110pts)
2) Squad of 5 in a Land Raider, each with a lightning claw and power fist, a mark of slaneesh, and an icon of excess on the champion. A lot of points to spend, but crazy in assault - they kill entire squads with their I5 lightning claws, can reliably take down every MC in the game (bar some of the insane Daemon Prince builds), and the champion can kill or severely wound most ICs.

I've found that making a big ol squad of termis can work but it more or less decides the rest of your list for you. After they get swept once you'll never want to take them again without a fearless IC or at least IoV. Footslogging them is frustrating because you have so many points in one squad, that your enemy can more or less avoid it. DS is an option that works fine, when you don't mishap. A bad mishap, depending on points you're playing, could mean game over. That leaves the ol' chaos land raider which is another huge expense that can't be expected to do much besides transport the squad. You say you want to use it as a gun boat? don't count on it. It doesn't have a lot of shooting power, especially if your cruising up field to deliver your termis and maybe popping smoke to keep it intact. Now you're probably well over 500 points deep into one unit. It can work, just don't expect to have a lot of room for variety elsewhere.

JubbJubbz wrote:
I've found that making a big ol squad of termis can work but it more or less decides the rest of your list for you. After they get swept once you'll never want to take them again without a fearless IC or at least IoV. Footslogging them is frustrating because you have so many points in one squad, that your enemy can more or less avoid it. DS is an option that works fine, when you don't mishap. A bad mishap, depending on points you're playing, could mean game over. That leaves the ol' chaos land raider which is another huge expense that can't be expected to do much besides transport the squad. You say you want to use it as a gun boat? don't count on it. It doesn't have a lot of shooting power, especially if your cruising up field to deliver your termis and maybe popping smoke to keep it intact. Now you're probably well over 500 points deep into one unit. It can work, just don't expect to have a lot of room for variety elsewhere.

Then put them in a Spartan Assault Tank. It's worth it for the transport and the offense it provides.

I know this goes against the group think but I prefer the mark of tzeentch. more often than not, the enemy can't wait to throw those AP2 weapons at you (at least in my experience). When you remind them you only have to roll a 4++, they usually lose the smile.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Then put them in a Spartan Assault Tank. It's worth it for the transport and the offense it provides.

It's on my bucket list There's just too many cool models on my To Buy list.

 Musashi363 wrote:
I know this goes against the group think but I prefer the mark of tzeentch. more often than not, the enemy can't wait to throw those AP2 weapons at you (at least in my experience). When you remind them you only have to roll a 4++, they usually lose the smile.

If you are worried about the big guns, MoT is a good way to go.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
I know this goes against the group think but I prefer the mark of tzeentch. more often than not, the enemy can't wait to throw those AP2 weapons at you (at least in my experience). When you remind them you only have to roll a 4++, they usually lose the smile.

If you are worried about the big guns, MoT is a good way to go.

It very much depends on your meta. If people are drowning you in small arms, get MoN or MoS + Icon. If AP values are trumping you, MoT will save your bacon.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
I know this goes against the group think but I prefer the mark of tzeentch. more often than not, the enemy can't wait to throw those AP2 weapons at you (at least in my experience). When you remind them you only have to roll a 4++, they usually lose the smile.

If you are worried about the big guns, MoT is a good way to go.

It very much depends on your meta. If people are drowning you in small arms, get MoN or MoS + Icon. If AP values are trumping you, MoT will save your bacon.

Also if you can DS or manuever your termies to avoid big guns/volume of fire and focus on one type of target, that might help.
Might.
There's no easy answers.

I always find my CSM terminators getting into assault with SM terminators, so I would always give them power fists/ axes (AP 2). Take a reaper autocannon: firing a twin-linked autocannon on the move is always a plus. You can give them an IoV, but then if you attach a terminator chaos Lord to the squad they're fearless anyway. The mark you give them depends on their loadout, MoS is good, allows them to strike first (usually) and allows them to take an icon, giving them feel no pain. Alternatively, if they have power fists then this is a little pointless, as you don't get the benfit of the mark. MoN or MoK work well, with nurgle terminators tending to survive a little longer, and khornate termies being able to kill stuff a little quicker. Personally, I would always give them MoT, giving them a 4+ invuln. This gives them an edge over vanilla SM terminators, and allows them to last a bit longer in combat with said unit of terminators.
But if you play against horde armies I would advise MoS with lightning claws, or MoK with similar equipment. Always make it a squad of 10, Land Raider if you got it. DS is preferable, but if you use Huron or get lucky on rolling warlord traits they can infiltrate. Attaching a sorcerer to them might bolster their hitting power, and could augment their stats through psychic powers.
Not sure if I missed anything...

Musashi363 wrote:I know this goes against the group think but I prefer the mark of tzeentch. more often than not, the enemy can't wait to throw those AP2 weapons at you (at least in my experience). When you remind them you only have to roll a 4++, they usually lose the smile.

Especially if they're lead by a tzeentch lord or sorcerer who has a 3++, multiple wounds, and a 2+ LoS! You can pretty effectively manage wounds with that setup.

And, unlike THSS stormies, you still have combi-weapons, so you have good shooting to go with it. And for a few extra points, your bolters can start people on fire, which is plenty scary for a GEq player.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
I know this goes against the group think but I prefer the mark of tzeentch. more often than not, the enemy can't wait to throw those AP2 weapons at you (at least in my experience). When you remind them you only have to roll a 4++, they usually lose the smile.

If you are worried about the big guns, MoT is a good way to go.

It very much depends on your meta. If people are drowning you in small arms, get MoN or MoS + Icon. If AP values are trumping you, MoT will save your bacon.

if it's plasma MoS+Icon is still better. Tzeench is better against Str8+ Ap2

 Exergy wrote:

if it's plasma MoS+Icon is still better. Tzeench is better against Str8+ Ap2

Points spent per wound saved is the factor I'm looking at. MoS + IoE is not cheap.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

if it's plasma MoS+Icon is still better. Tzeench is better against Str8+ Ap2

Points spent per wound saved is the factor I'm looking at. MoS + IoE is not cheap.

yeah, IoE really depends on the unit size

 Ailaros wrote:
Terminators are great, whatchu talkin' about?

Terminator + combi-weapon = win. They're CSM's version of sternguard, except that instead of dying like a bunch of Sv3+ pansies, they have 2+/5++ and can smash in faces with power weapons/fists.

If you really want to bring the hurt, large squads with marks and banners can do a lot. My preferred way to use them was a squad of 10 with MoK, IoW, and infiltrated forward with Huron. They still had 10 good shooting attacks (mostly combi-meltas and combi-plasmas), and 10 MoK terminators getting into close combat on turn 2 beat friggin face. Even if they get whittled down, you're still bringing serious hurt in close combat.

I can't think of many players who are going to let you charge anything meaningful turn 2 with terminators. . .

I just started pondering this, would it be better to invest in a heldrake than some terminators?