40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**Ravenous D**

TheCustomLime wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW talks about the upcoming new edition of their biggest and most profitable product line, Warhammer 40,000:

*crickets chirping*
*tumbleweed rolls buy*

Literally almost any other company on Earth talks about their upcoming new release for their most profitable product line:

"It's amazing! You won't believe how great it is! Check out all this cool new stuff you'll be able to do! Stay tuned for even more previews. This is going to be great!!!"

Maybe they think that if they don't tell anyone that new stuff is coming until the last minute they'll pleasantly surprise people and score impulse buys? I mean, it's not like you'd get more sales by drumming up hype and allowing customers to get the funds together to buy your expensive gak.

That's exactly it.

GW doesn't tell us anything because if you knew your army of choice was 3 months off, or a new edition was soon, you wouldn't waste your time with projects that can be invalidated.

**Kelly502**

I can hardly stand it. I do enjoy the boxed sets they come up with, simple little rule book, and recently, some great figures! As for me if this new box set is BA's and Orks then it will be perfect for me.
Really sad to see so many blokes upset with the rules, I hope this new book will be the best 40k rules yet. One can hope.
I used to despise Hero Hammer or the first edition I think it was, a single hero/commander could wipe out whole squads, if Dakka had been around then I would have been the loudest 40k rule set hater!
To counter bad rules I've actually gotten absorbed into building the kits and getting better at painting.
Great thread, I enjoyed readin it all. I confirmed the rules as unavailable so fingers crossed! We really do need a great set of rules for these great models and figures!

**ausYenLoWang**

Ravenous D wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW talks about the upcoming new edition of their biggest and most profitable product line, Warhammer 40,000:

*crickets chirping*
*tumbleweed rolls buy*

Literally almost any other company on Earth talks about their upcoming new release for their most profitable product line:

"It's amazing! You won't believe how great it is! Check out all this cool new stuff you'll be able to do! Stay tuned for even more previews. This is going to be great!!!"

Maybe they think that if they don't tell anyone that new stuff is coming until the last minute they'll pleasantly surprise people and score impulse buys? I mean, it's not like you'd get more sales by drumming up hype and allowing customers to get the funds together to buy your expensive gak.

That's exactly it.

GW doesn't tell us anything because if you knew your army of choice was 3 months off, or a new edition was soon, you wouldn't waste your time with projects that can be invalidated.

ill be honest here, i was looking at buying in some allies for my csm, tossing up between tau or IG. and well... not making any purchases till the new book is out. and it owuldbe the same with a 3 month lead time.

IF they came out and said that they were making tweaks to it all and that nothing would be invalidated i wouldnt be hesitating but we know GW... and all the effort i put into my CSM to have them magnetized to the 9's will probably prove to be a really good thing...

**Miguelsan**

Totally doing it wrong http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-cast-announced.html
That JJ guy should learn from GW how's done.

M.

**insaniak**

Miguelsan wrote:
Totally doing it wrong http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-cast-announced.html
That JJ guy should learn from GW how's done.

M.

Yeah... now that we know they're working on a new Star Wars movie, everyone's going to be totally too bored with it to go see it by the time it's released...

The best way to get people excited about something is to make sure they don't know it exists.

**ausYenLoWang**

insaniak wrote:
Miguelsan wrote:
Totally doing it wrong http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-cast-announced.html
That JJ guy should learn from GW how's done.

M.

Yeah... now that we know they're working on a new Star Wars movie, everyone's going to be totally too bored with it to go see it by the time it's released...

The best way to get people excited about something is to make sure they don't know it exists.

haha i spoke to carrie fisher last year, amusingly she was told to lay off the booze or they would un-cast her. and this was june last year...

the other recastings came up as well. id love to know how much work hammils gonna be putting in

star wars as a franchise though... its HUGE. this weekend we have the May the 4th movie marathons of the 6 movies. its a self feeding machine, that not even episode 1 could wreck. and a good laugh was JJ abrams was told that if he wrecks these movies, he will forever be called "Jar Jar" lol

**Harriticus**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW talks about the upcoming new edition of their biggest and most profitable product line, Warhammer 40,000:

*crickets chirping*
*tumbleweed rolls buy*

Literally almost any other company on Earth talks about their upcoming new release for their most profitable product line:

"It's amazing! You won't believe how great it is! Check out all this cool new stuff you'll be able to do! Stay tuned for even more previews. This is going to be great!!!"

GW has two very, very bizarre aspects to it that I've yet to encounter in any other company in the world:

A.) Advertisement/publicity is bad

B.) The internet is an unimportant passing fad and social media is a hindrance. This is especially interesting because they're getting more dedicated to pursue this policy as the years roll by, not less.

Now Point A is interesting because even going back to ancient Rome people understood the value of advertisements and publicity (there were advertisements for eating establishments written on the walls of Pompeii), yet GW seems to refute this. However Point B is literally the exact opposite of what every single company in the world has concluded in the last 15 years.

I mean I get the greed, the lawsuits, the war on the fans, the incompetence, the price hikes, etc.., I don't agree with it but I can wrap my head around why they do it. But these two things right here, I can't for the love of me understand why they've decided to make this core parts of their strategy.

The personification of their "wtf are they thinking" thing with regards to their desire to avoid publicity/social media is they don't list their youtube channel. This above all else is most perplexing to me. You don't want a random youtuber to see your products...really? Though I suspect in a few years, they'll do away with even their pitiful inactive youtube channel.

**Yodhrin**

ausYenLoWang wrote:
insaniak wrote:
Miguelsan wrote:
Totally doing it wrong http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-cast-announced.html
That JJ guy should learn from GW how's done.

M.

Yeah... now that we know they're working on a new Star Wars movie, everyone's going to be totally too bored with it to go see it by the time it's released...

The best way to get people excited about something is to make sure they don't know it exists.

haha i spoke to carrie fisher last year, amusingly she was told to lay off the booze or they would un-cast her. and this was june last year... the other recastings came up as well. id love to know how much work hammils gonna be putting in

star wars as a franchise though... its HUGE. this weekend we have the May the 4th movie marathons of the 6 movies. its a self feeding machine, that not even episode 1 could wreck. and a good laugh was JJ abrams was told that if he wrecks these movies, he will forever be called "Jar Jar" lol

Very quick OT; do yourself a favour, try out the "Machete" viewing order; Ep IV > Ep V > Ep II > Ep III > EpVI. I was skeptical but it's much better than watching in either release or narrative-chronological order, and as it turns out, the atrocious Episode 1 is entirely unnecessary considering all the important characters are reintroduced in Ep II, plus when you're marathon-watching the series I think having the gap between V and VI increases the impact of the end of the former and the start of the latter, compared to seeing them back-to-back.

**Kosake**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Maybe they think that if they don't tell anyone that new stuff is coming until the last minute they'll pleasantly surprise people and score impulse buys? I mean, it's not like you'd get more sales by drumming up hype and allowing customers to get the funds together to buy your expensive gak.

Impulse buys? How big's the proportion of the population that has such low impulse controll and such high numbers on their bank accounts and is into wargaming?

**monders**

Grimtuff wrote:
monders wrote:
I can understand everyone being miffed that this edition isn't even two years old yet, but look at Mantic and Dreadball. 4 updates in what, 12 months?!

Ok I'm being flippant, but let's see what it actually has rather than forecasting doom and gloom. Not everyone will be happy, though, let's brace ourselves!

I'm half tempted to box up my 6th ed rule book and chuck it in the post without postage. I've used it three times. That'll learn 'em!

Genuine question, but were these simply expansions or a complete overhaul of the game itself?

They were rules expansions, to the best of my knowledge. Except Ultimate, which I believe is a completely different game (£39.99). But at a tenner a pop for the PDF rules, and £15 for the Azure Forest expansion, it's not a modest outlay to have the full set over a year...

Like I said though, I was merely being flippant. I'm a fan of both systems. I just don't play enough of either.

**Harriticus**

The whole "impulse buy" argument is pretty moot, Apple/Microsoft/etc. don't do it and announce their products well in advance despite the constant overhaul of products (and ironically, similar prices)

**NoggintheNog**

Miguelsan wrote:
Totally doing it wrong http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-cast-announced.html
That JJ guy should learn from GW how's done.

M.

You don't even need to go to a different genre.

Wargaming has it's own example, this weekend Corvus Belli used their biggest tournament to announce that later this year they were going to release third edition Infinity.
Plenty of warning, plenty of excitement, and they are still releasing product every month in the meantime. Of course, it does help that the rules are free and you don't need to purchase the big books to play if you do not want to, but I have yet to see anyone suggest Corvus Belli are just after more money by doing it - and to be fair although the games been out for a number of years in it's current form the last major expansion was 18 months or so ago.

Its all about attitude, GW's stinks, hence they get a poor reception.

**Zweischneid**

NoggintheNog wrote:
Miguelsan wrote:
Totally doing it wrong http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-cast-announced.html
That JJ guy should learn from GW how's done.

M.

You don't even need to go to a different genre.

Wargaming has it's own example, this weekend Corvus Belli used their biggest tournament to announce that later this year they were going to release third edition Infinity.

Well. Had a look at the Infinity news thread. Not even 30 posts in over 3 days, after the posting of the Infinity 3rd Ed. trailer.

And most of that just general, not-even-Infinity-related GenCon brabble. Not a single person there even bothered speculating/wishlisting/complaining how Rule X or Rule Y may or may not change. I don't think anyone even made a new thread on it yet in the Infinity sub-forum (compared to a 5-page thread in the 40K forum on the new edition, just a day old, maybe two).

Not even the crickets bother chirping for Infinity 3rd.

**Herzlos**

ausYenLoWang wrote:
insaniak wrote:
ausYenLoWang wrote:
yes but it limits the piss poor excuses that they can come up with. if you flat out dont wnat to play me fine, just done make up some terrible arbitary excuse, and tahts what the whole NO fw, No escalation, etc etc thing is

What if their reason for not wanting to play you is that they don't want to play against forgeworld stuff, or use Escalation?

yeeeaaahh just those 2 examples? be legit about it, not give me the ohh its not legal, its not allowed the brb doesnt say you can take them and all those bs arguments, give me that kind of nonsense and ill happily drop any FW from my list, and just as happily put 3 drakes on the table...
to deny a game because of perfectly legal models or lists just because you suddenly see them etc is for me being a cad, iv played games unexpectedly against trip wraithknights, triptide, and a nice tiggy death star. adapt and overcome.

if you come to play a fun not heavily competitive game, then the chaos FW stuff is not broken at all, but hey ill be planning on that and wont usually write it into my list. do i now write my thunderhawk or warhound into all my lists because they are legal? nope, my decimator dread, nope. but do i want the option to take them without someone having a sulk that they exist... YES, do i want to be able to field the thousands of dollars of models without the ragequit attitude that i have seen from people who want to bury their head in the sand i sure do want to use them. the thing is, abusing the base codecies and allies is usually much more detrimental to the game than the use of FW, or escalation.

can i write nice soft fluffy lists, sure i have a 2k points thousand sons list i can field, i can go iron warriors, or death guard, or emporers children. and these are the kinds of armies i normally run, decent and fun to play. though i can abuse the rules if i want.

edit: the end result is you can refuse a game for any reason you want. i just think the attitude and excuses some people use smacks of poor sportsmanship. i think that to deny a game because the list opposite you is perfectly legal is being a bit of a cad, because ANY discussions before the game you should have already said what you are comfortable playing against or NOT playing against, and once models come out of boxes... you see their list and go naaaahh not interested now.. bit of a weak effort i think.

also i see people who say i dont want to play against W X Y or Z and then pull out hard counters to what they leave you the options to field. stacking the game in their favour, when you do the righty by them and go with what they are happy to play against, and just have them pull that kind of stunt.

Plenty of people want to play skirmish 40K (like they did for the last 5 editions), and not Escalation/Stronghold/Forgeworld. It's a pretty reasonable request.

I personally don't have any problem with Forgeworld, as it's no more broken than the rest of regular 40K. But I've no interest in putting my guard infantry up against Superheavies or Titans where my only strategy can be hiding and putting things back in the case. I've also no interest in spending the kind of money required to compete on an even playing field with $120 models. I can get into entire other games for less.

**Elemental**

Zweischneid wrote:
Well. Had a look at the Infinity news thread. Not even 30 posts in over 3 days, after the posting of the Infinity 3rd Ed. trailer.

And most of that just general, not-even-Infinity-related GenCon brabble. Not a single person there even bothered speculating/wishlisting/complaining how Rule X or Rule Y may or may not change. I don't think anyone even made a new thread on it yet in the Infinity sub-forum (compared to a 5-page thread in the 40K forum on the new edition, just a day old, maybe two).

Not even the crickets bother chirping for Infinity 3rd.

http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22302-3rd-edition/

Funny thing--if something has an official forum, people tend to discuss it in the official forum. If it doesn't, people will discuss it more on independent forums. Shocking.

**Zweischneid**

Elemental wrote:
Zweischneid wrote:
Well. Had a look at the Infinity news thread. Not even 30 posts in over 3 days, after the posting of the Infinity 3rd Ed. trailer.

And most of that just general, not-even-Infinity-related GenCon brabble. Not a single person there even bothered speculating/wishlisting/complaining how Rule X or Rule Y may or may not change. I don't think anyone even made a new thread on it yet in the Infinity sub-forum (compared to a 5-page thread in the 40K forum on the new edition, just a day old, maybe two).

Not even the crickets bother chirping for Infinity 3rd.

http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22302-3rd-edition/

Funny thing--if something has an official forum, people tend to discuss it in the official forum. If it doesn't, people will discuss it more on independent forums. Shocking.

Lol, Even the official Infinity 3rd thread on the official Infinity Forum is shorter than the not-yet-announced 40K 7th thread on just Dakka News & Rumours.

And that doesn't obviously include the equally frenzied discussions on Warseer, B&C, Natfka, BOLS, whathaveyou.

**Kosake**

Well, if you release information freely and communicate with the community, there is less demand for speculation, doomsaying and discussions on company policies. If anything, the bloated, hate-fueled mega-threads are a sign that 40k is worse of than Infinity.

**ausYenLoWang**

Herzlos wrote:
ausYenLoWang wrote:
insaniak wrote:
ausYenLoWang wrote:
yes but it limits the piss poor excuses that they can come up with. if you flat out dont wnat to play me fine, just done make up some terrible arbitary excuse, and tahts what the whole NO fw, No escalation, etc etc thing is

What if their reason for not wanting to play you is that they don't want to play against forgeworld stuff, or use Escalation?

yeeeaaahh just those 2 examples? be legit about it, not give me the ohh its not legal, its not allowed the brb doesnt say you can take them and all those bs arguments, give me that kind of nonsense and ill happily drop any FW from my list, and just as happily put 3 drakes on the table...
to deny a game because of perfectly legal models or lists just because you suddenly see them etc is for me being a cad, iv played games unexpectedly against trip wraithknights, triptide, and a nice tiggy death star. adapt and overcome.

if you come to play a fun not heavily competitive game, then the chaos FW stuff is not broken at all, but hey ill be planning on that and wont usually write it into my list. do i now write my thunderhawk or warhound into all my lists because they are legal? nope, my decimator dread, nope. but do i want the option to take them without someone having a sulk that they exist... YES, do i want to be able to field the thousands of dollars of models without the ragequit attitude that i have seen from people who want to bury their head in the sand i sure do want to use them. the thing is, abusing the base codecies and allies is usually much more detrimental to the game than the use of FW, or escalation.

can i write nice soft fluffy lists, sure i have a 2k points thousand sons list i can field, i can go iron warriors, or death guard, or emporers children. and these are the kinds of armies i normally run, decent and fun to play. though i can abuse the rules if i want.

edit: the end result is you can refuse a game for any reason you want. i just think the attitude and excuses some people use smacks of poor sportsmanship. i think that to deny a game because the list opposite you is perfectly legal is being a bit of a cad, because ANY discussions before the game you should have already said what you are comfortable playing against or NOT playing against, and once models come out of boxes... you see their list and go naaaahh not interested now.. bit of a weak effort i think.

also i see people who say i dont want to play against W X Y or Z and then pull out hard counters to what they leave you the options to field. stacking the game in their favour, when you do the righty by them and go with what they are happy to play against, and just have them pull that kind of stunt.

Plenty of people want to play skirmish 40K (like they did for the last 5 editions), and not Escalation/Stronghold/Forgeworld. It's a pretty reasonable request.

I personally don't have any problem with Forgeworld, as it's no more broken than the rest of regular 40K. But I've no interest in putting my guard infantry up against Superheavies or Titans where my only strategy can be hiding and putting things back in the case. I've also no interest in spending the kind of money required to compete on an even playing field with $120 models. I can get into entire other games for less.

to be fair $ in model price does NOT equate to output. 83$ for 3 mutilators. same money for a dreadnaught,
if you want say a warhound thats $800 same would go for a thunderhawk so i dare say theyd be pretty damn rare sights.

if your guard cant play objectives i think your in trouble, i mean you get some of the largest units of troops the best artillery etc etc, in fact, your 50 man guard blob against a warhound... in shooting goes like this, each template can hit say 4-5 guys, so at best 20 hit, you SHOULD on average roll 3 1's so 17 die, now it would take 3.5 turns shooting to wipe them out... oh and the warhound costs as much as 2 or 3 of these units... you can flat swarm it under with bodies if needed.

now another money statement, i realise your not in aus, but what we get for 110$ a model, valks, stormaravens, heldrakes, etc etc, alot of the big kits are priced at that point. if i was starting a new army today i can tell you now, it would be guard all the way, they are sneeky nasty evil bastards

with some truly excellent options. though recent army lists are showing that those expensive models arent putting bodies on the table to get you anywhere.

we all know 40k is not a cheap hobby to get into and that there are many cheaper options, but for most people in the hobby i dare say that we arent buying models instead of eating.

as to people who want to play skirmishes/kill team etc, great i have no issue with that, BUT in that case the basis of SHV etc dont even play a part, you just cant field them at 500 pts... so their inclusion in the base rules shouldnt be a problem.
Sure tyoull get power gamers going oooh 1000 pts i can take a lord, 2x10 cultists and my warhound, and you can... probably get some other things in there as well... but how many gaming clubs have actually seen this? your more likely to run into the base codex shenanigans like say, 2-3 riptides, wraithknights, heldrakes or any of the other base codex shenanigans.
if my opponent dropped a well done superheavy down, and i mean the real thing, nicely painted and modeled, great id be impressed and awed by the model, if it was a shoe box with toilet rolls for arms, no that goes off the table.

**Zweischneid**

Kosake wrote:
Well, if you release information freely and communicate with the community, there is less demand for speculation, doomsaying and discussions on company policies. If anything, the bloated, hate-fueled mega-threads are a sign that 40k is worse of than Infinity.

The fact that they are hateful is partly a dakka-specific phenomenon, as fans get shouted out by the haters (some of who have been on Dakka spewing hatred for literally (not figuratively) years, some since before 5th, much less 6th,... but still they are unable to let go of GW).

But yes, it seems that GW's secrecy policy seems to have the paradoxical effect that the news of their new game dominates all the wargaming-airwaves, even before the official announcement.

Will be interesting to see how, after both 40K 7th and Infinity 3rd are released, the quantity of coverage will be across blogs, youtube and forums in terms of listbuilding, battle-reports, tactics and general reviews.

It's a bit like the 2009 movie seasons. Everyone praises the Hurt Locker, and it wins Oscars for Best Picture and Best Director, but hardly managed to break even, despite a minuscule budget. The masses still rather went to watch Avatar, and more people talk about that movie today.

**f2k**

Zweischneid wrote:
Kosake wrote:
Well, if you release information freely and communicate with the community, there is less demand for speculation, doomsaying and discussions on company policies. If anything, the bloated, hate-fueled mega-threads are a sign that 40k is worse of than Infinity.

The fact that they are hateful is partly a dakka-specific phenomenon, as fans get shouted out by the haters (some of who have been on Dakka spewing hatred for literally (not figuratively) years, some since before 5th, much less 6th,... but still they are unable to let go of GW).

But yes, it seems that GW's secrecy policy seems to have the paradoxical effect that the news of their new game dominates all the wargaming-airwaves, even before the official announcement.

Will be interesting to see how, after both 40K 7th and Infinity 3rd are released, the quantity of coverage will be across blogs, youtube and forums in terms of listbuilding, battle-reports, tactics and general reviews.

It's a bit like the 2009 movie seasons. Everyone praises the Hurt Locker, and it wins Oscars for Best Picture and Best Director, but hardly managed to break even, despite a minuscule budget. The masses still rather went to watch Avatar, and more people talk about that movie today.

Yes, but at what price?

Most of the feedback I see for games like Infinity and WarMachine is pretty positive. Even Mantic (whose figures are, if possible, of even worse quality than FineCast it seems) get mostly positive feedback and have run several highly successful Kickstarter campaigns.

Games Workshop rumours, on the other hand, tends to lead to nothing more than an endless list of snarks, sarcastic remarks, moaning about the inevitable price-hike, and wishlisting. Hardly the kind of publicity that a company should be looking for.

**Kosake**

Zweischneid wrote:

It's a bit like the 2009 movie seasons. Everyone praises the Hurt Locker, and it wins Oscars for Best Picture and Best Director, but hardly managed to break even, despite a minuscule budget. The masses still rather went to watch Avatar, and more people talk about that movie today.

Which just shows that the better product doesn't necessary have to be the more popular one. 40k survives by the fact that it's the one most widely known and the alternatives are mostly known only to people who are allready in the wargaming hobby (thanks to 40k).

**Zweischneid**

f2k wrote:

Yes, but at what price?

Most of the feedback I see for games like Infinity and WarMachine is pretty positive. Even Mantic (whose figures are, if possible, of even worse quality than FineCast it seems) get mostly positive feedback and have run several highly successful Kickstarter campaigns.

Games Workshop rumours, on the other hand, tends to lead to nothing more than an endless list of snarks, sarcastic remarks, moaning about the inevitable price-hike, and wishlisting. Hardly the kind of publicity that a company should be looking for.

Still a question of scale.

Games Workshop, in their last, devastating financial had 60.5 GBP millions in 26 weeks. That's 2.25 GBP millions a week. That is 2 Deadzone Kickstarters every single week, after week, after week, 52 weeks a year. And that is GW at it's lowest.

**Azazelx**

Zweischneid wrote:
Elemental wrote:
Zweischneid wrote:
Well. Had a look at the Infinity news thread. Not even 30 posts in over 3 days, after the posting of the Infinity 3rd Ed. trailer.

And most of that just general, not-even-Infinity-related GenCon brabble. Not a single person there even bothered speculating/wishlisting/complaining how Rule X or Rule Y may or may not change. I don't think anyone even made a new thread on it yet in the Infinity sub-forum (compared to a 5-page thread in the 40K forum on the new edition, just a day old, maybe two).

Not even the crickets bother chirping for Infinity 3rd.

http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22302-3rd-edition/

Funny thing--if something has an official forum, people tend to discuss it in the official forum. If it doesn't, people will discuss it more on independent forums. Shocking.

Lol, Even the official Infinity 3rd thread on the official Infinity Forum is shorter than the not-yet-announced 40K 7th thread on just Dakka News & Rumours.

And that doesn't obviously include the equally frenzied discussions on Warseer, B&C, Natfka, BOLS, whathaveyou.

I don't actually play Infinity, but could at least part of the reasons for how quiet it is be because the Infinity playerbase don't have the same number of issues with their current rules that the 40k playerbase does? Obviously, 40k dwarfs infinity, and expecting the sizes of the conversations to be comparable would be stupid, but a combo of smaller playerbase, more satisfied playerbase, official forums and communication from the producers would likely cause a far smaller amount of speculation.

**Zweischneid**

Azazelx wrote:
Zweischneid wrote:
Elemental wrote:
Zweischneid wrote:
Well. Had a look at the Infinity news thread. Not even 30 posts in over 3 days, after the posting of the Infinity 3rd Ed. trailer.

And most of that just general, not-even-Infinity-related GenCon brabble. Not a single person there even bothered speculating/wishlisting/complaining how Rule X or Rule Y may or may not change. I don't think anyone even made a new thread on it yet in the Infinity sub-forum (compared to a 5-page thread in the 40K forum on the new edition, just a day old, maybe two).

Not even the crickets bother chirping for Infinity 3rd.

http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22302-3rd-edition/

Funny thing--if something has an official forum, people tend to discuss it in the official forum. If it doesn't, people will discuss it more on independent forums. Shocking.

Lol, Even the official Infinity 3rd thread on the official Infinity Forum is shorter than the not-yet-announced 40K 7th thread on just Dakka News & Rumours.

And that doesn't obviously include the equally frenzied discussions on Warseer, B&C, Natfka, BOLS, whathaveyou.

I don't actually play Infinity, but could at least part of the reasons for how quiet it is be because the Infinity playerbase don't have the same number of issues with their current rules that the 40k playerbase does? Obviously, 40k dwarfs infinity, and expecting the sizes of the conversations to be comparable would be stupid, but a combo of smaller playerbase, more satisfied playerbase, official forums and communication from the producers would likely cause a far smaller amount of speculation.

Well, if the symptom of contentment and satisfaction among wargamers is silence, how do you know that the majority of the 40K playerbase isn't equally content and satisfied, but (like the quietly happy Infinity fans), also silent?

If the negative tone of 40K discussions is representative of how the whole playerbase feels, the happy and satisfied playerbase of a different game should be expressing that in positive discussions on the game itself (instead of trolling discussions on games-not-their-own-choice)?

And if the Infinity playerbase is so much smaller, maybe they are doing the marketing for their game wrong?

**f2k**

joemarra052075 wrote:My only problem with it would be that I am on a limited budget, I just started playing 8 weeks ago, and I would have to buy 2 rulebooks (my GW store says that if my daughter wants to play a game at the same time as me she needs her own book)

Zweischneid wrote:
f2k wrote:

Yes, but at what price?

Most of the feedback I see for games like Infinity and WarMachine is pretty positive. Even Mantic (whose figures are, if possible, of even worse quality than FineCast it seems) get mostly positive feedback and have run several highly successful Kickstarter campaigns.

Games Workshop rumours, on the other hand, tends to lead to nothing more than an endless list of snarks, sarcastic remarks, moaning about the inevitable price-hike, and wishlisting. Hardly the kind of publicity that a company should be looking for.

Still a question of scale.

Games Workshop, in their last, devastating financial had 60.5 GBP millions in 26 weeks. That's 2.25 GBP millions a week. That is 2 Deadzone Kickstarters every single week, after week, after week, 52 weeks a year. And that is GW at it's lowest.

And of those two companies, which is going from strength to strength and which is going downhill fast?

Zweischneid wrote:
Azazelx wrote:
Zweischneid wrote:
Elemental wrote:
Zweischneid wrote:
Well. Had a look at the Infinity news thread. Not even 30 posts in over 3 days, after the posting of the Infinity 3rd Ed. trailer.

And most of that just general, not-even-Infinity-related GenCon brabble. Not a single person there even bothered speculating/wishlisting/complaining how Rule X or Rule Y may or may not change. I don't think anyone even made a new thread on it yet in the Infinity sub-forum (compared to a 5-page thread in the 40K forum on the new edition, just a day old, maybe two).

Not even the crickets bother chirping for Infinity 3rd.

http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22302-3rd-edition/

Funny thing--if something has an official forum, people tend to discuss it in the official forum. If it doesn't, people will discuss it more on independent forums. Shocking.

Lol, Even the official Infinity 3rd thread on the official Infinity Forum is shorter than the not-yet-announced 40K 7th thread on just Dakka News & Rumours.

And that doesn't obviously include the equally frenzied discussions on Warseer, B&C, Natfka, BOLS, whathaveyou.

I don't actually play Infinity, but could at least part of the reasons for how quiet it is be because the Infinity playerbase don't have the same number of issues with their current rules that the 40k playerbase does? Obviously, 40k dwarfs infinity, and expecting the sizes of the conversations to be comparable would be stupid, but a combo of smaller playerbase, more satisfied playerbase, official forums and communication from the producers would likely cause a far smaller amount of speculation.

Well, if the symptom of contentment and satisfaction among wargamers is silence, how do you know that the majority of the 40K playerbase isn't equally content and satisfied, but (like the quietly happy Infinity fans), also silent?

If the negative tone of 40K discussions is representative of how the whole playerbase feels, the happy and satisfied playerbase of a different game should be expressing that in positive discussions on the game itself (instead of trolling discussions on games-not-their-own-choice)?

We know that it's representative - it's right there in the numbers.

If the majority of players were happy, then Games Workshop would be doing fine. But they're not. In fact, in an environment where the business, as a whole, is growing, Games Workshop is shrinking rapidly. I'd say that's a good indication that the customers are voting with their wallets.

**Zweischneid**

f2k wrote:

We know that it's representative - it's right there in the numbers.

If the majority of players were happy, then Games Workshop would be doing fine. But they're not. In fact, in an environment where the business, as a whole, is growing, Games Workshop is shrinking rapidly. I'd say that's a good indication that the customers are voting with their wallets.

I was just told that comparing numbers between, say, Infinity and Games Workshop wasn't valid?

Are we allowed to use numbers to gauge relative popularity or not?

And the business as a whole is not growing. The report this came from specifically said that tabletop-gaming is growing, drawn most of all by MtG, other CCGs, board games, etc.., but that the subsection of miniature wargaming (with the imprecise numbers we have) is rapidly shrinking as a whole.

People appear to be falling out of love with (tedious-to-assemble-and-paint) miniatures in general, favouring cards with pretty art or wooden meeples.

**NoggintheNog**

Zweischneid wrote:

Well, if the symptom of contentment and satisfaction among wargamers is silence, how do you know that the majority of the 40K playerbase isn't equally content and satisfied, but (like the quietly happy Infinity fans), also silent?

If the negative tone of 40K discussions is representative of how the whole playerbase feels, the happy and satisfied playerbase of a different game should be expressing that in positive discussions on the game itself (instead of trolling discussions on games-not-their-own-choice)?

So, beyond the strawman and ridiculous conflation of popularity with quality, what point are you trying to prove here.

As it was my initial post you responded to, I wanted to ask what the quantity of discourse on the subject has to do with the point I made. And that point was, I thought , a fairly simple one. Other wargaming companies can announce major changes in advance, keep their customers happy and presumably, given they keep doing it, retain profit margins at the same time.

Thus the idea that GW cannot act in any way but secretly to maintain revenues and customer interest is provably false.

How many people talk about or play each game has no bearing on that supposition at all.

**Zweischneid**

NoggintheNog wrote:

So, beyond the strawman and ridiculous conflation of popularity with quality, what point are you trying to prove here.

That nobody has been able to prove, beyond personal bias, that Infinity-fans (as a whole) are happier than 40K-fans (as a whole).

**ausYenLoWang**

GW is not shrinking rapidly. that sound like the dramatisation from a fox news broadcast...

and id be rather happy with a business that makes a couple of mil a week, sure it could and probably SHOULD be better.
now i know this isnt a fGW financials thread, but there is someting i do see everytime that id love an answer to and never will... how much money/units sold etc is infinity and PP etc doing? GW HAS to release those numbers but they are private business and dont need to, they could be cruising along just like GW, but the GW hate means they have to be doing soooo much better, right, riight?

**Sarigar**

Hoping there are actual fixes to several game mechanics with this book. If it is simply LoW added to the book it may likely be my parting from 40K.