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 pretre wrote:
It's simple. There will be unbound events and Battle Forged events. Don't panic.

But are they strictly separated?

2000 pts. game.... 1000 pts. using regular "battle-forged" FoC, for the nice bonus, perhaps another 200 pts. Formation. Fill up with 800 pts. unbound. Cause why not?

 pretre wrote:
It's simple. There will be unbound events and Battle Forged events. Don't panic.

What, can I not express any concern without it being labelled as a panic reaction?

Obviously there will be Unbound vs. Battle-Forged events, these sorts of things existed way before they had official GW-sanctioned names.

I am just...wondering (is that a good-enough word to not get noted as panicked?) what sort of effect this will have on pick-up games, my concern largely coming from a selfish place. Yeah, people will decline to play against some of the cheesy-mongeriest lists, but I think there could be a shift in the 40k population to playing what keeps their armies aggressive on the field (it's not enough to "win" if every match you just win by bonuses).

barnowl wrote:
And tyranids get the shaft on psychic powers again. Two new power lists available to everyone, but Tyranids.

And Tau who have no psychers at all...it's going to be as fun as Dwarves in the magic phase in fantasy...

 agnosto wrote:
I hope it was just an omission; the psychic phase part said nothing about armies that have zero psychers (Tau). I guess we just sit there and get beat on since we won't have any dice in our pool. Not panicking, I'm just going to assume it's an omission in a short article about that phase.

you use tokens from the psychic pool to deny the witch

Like we couldn't just forego using the FOC before now for the sake of narrative. What bologna. "We have included in our rules the option to disregard the rules!"

 Sir Arun wrote:
you use tokens from the psychic pool to deny the witch

Just basing this off of the short little piece in the article that said "opposing psychers use their own pool to deny the which..." Like I said, there's more than likely more to it.

tongue in cheek--

Now Tau miss out on two phases of the game, Assault and Psychic.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
I hope it was just an omission; the psychic phase part said nothing about armies that have zero psychers (Tau). I guess we just sit there and get beat on since we won't have any dice in our pool. Not panicking, I'm just going to assume it's an omission in a short article about that phase.

you use tokens from the psychic pool to deny the witch

...which gives you a considerable disadvantage in every match when matched up vs. armies with access to Psykers. Unless you're given anything for compensation in return (e.g. Dwarfs in WHFB that get a fixed bonus to MR), that's poopoo game design.

 Accolade wrote:

 pretre wrote:
It's simple. There will be unbound events and Battle Forged events. Don't panic.

What, can I not express any concern without it being labelled as a panic reaction?

Obviously there will be Unbound vs. Battle-Forged events, these sorts of things existed way before they had official GW-sanctioned names.

I am just...wondering (is that a good-enough word to not get noted as panicked?) what sort of effect this will have on pick-up games, my concern largely coming from a selfish place. Yeah, people will decline to play against some of the cheesy-mongeriest lists, but I think there could be a shift in the 40k population to playing what keeps their armies aggressive on the field (it's not enough to "win" if every match you just win by bonuses).

He could have been talking about any of the comments, perhaps the one above yours using lots of caps maybe? Perhaps don't take things so personaly.

... Odd how , maybe, the "40K unbound" rules are sound..well.. read..... as being oddly reminiscent of the battle reports/whateveryouwanttocallthem from White Dwarf from the last year or two....

After looking at the pics, I can see thier argument about unbound allowing you to create fun armies; the example they give of a Leman Russ tank company being one. Another being that I can know make a true Deathwatch army of all Sternguard, without having to pay a tac or scout squad tax!

As always though, people will forgo any fluff and just pack thier armies with the chessiest thing in thier dex and call it a day. Tournaments will need to run thier events as battle forged only or else we are going to see some serious crap.

Seems like players will have to print out a check list of prerequisites to hand out to players and any who tick all the boxes gets a game against them.

Also, while Daemonology looks promising, I think it is just an attempt by GW corporate to make everyone buy some products from their ugly (personal view) Chaos Daemon range


Given the nature of the combos the internet can come up with, Battleforged <<<<<<<<< Unbound

Can't wait until the first time a Space Marine librarian summons a squad of plaguebearers to their side with the new Daemon rules. Thanks GW.

Tyron wrote:
Seems like players will have to print out a check list of prerequisites to hand out to players and any who tick all the boxes gets a game against them.

inb4 "Dating fellow Dakkanites" forum sub-section!

I can see "Battle-forged" being the mainstay way to play (!) at tournaments going forward.

Depending on what else it all means, of course, and what that whole new allies chart looks like...

I'm actually really liking the sound of this. Particularly because I think the flip side to Unbound will be an ease of playing skirmish style 40K and having it be completely legal. I can see an honest-to-goodness ability to forge a narrative with Unbound, small 500-750 point games where you aren't hampered by bringing an HQ and 2 Troops. Come up with a cool story for an all Terminator vanilla marines force. A Ravenguard force with all jump packs. An all Sternguard Deathwatch list, etc. Have your club/store/friend's garage run a small campaign or tourney with small points games of Unbound. It actually opens up a lot more possibilities than just gak tons of Riptides and Heldrakes.

Unbound is just a way to sell more miniatures of course...

"Now you can buy whatever you want for your army and not worry about whether you'll be allowed you use it in your games, because we say you can!"

...but not totally opposed to the concept. I will be interested to see what the bonuses are for a Battle Forged army.

So Battle Forged will likely be stricter allies matrix.
Unbound is "Eh, buddy, wanna be mah pal?" and everyone kills everyone together. I have no problem with this.

Looks like all those 6.5 rumors just got shot down.

 Flashman wrote:
Unbound is just a way to sell more miniatures of course...

"Now you can buy whatever you want for your army and not worry about whether you'll be allowed you use it in your games, because we say you can!"

...but not totally opposed to the concept. I will be interested to see what the bonuses are for a Battle Forged army.

Unbound will allow for full Tank Companies without needing FW rules.

That alone has me and my 8 Leman Russes excited.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
After looking at the pics, I can see thier argument about unbound allowing you to create fun armies; the example they give of a Leman Russ tank company being one. Another being that I can know make a true Deathwatch army of all Sternguard, without having to pay a tac or scout squad tax!

As always though, people will forgo any fluff and just pack thier armies with the chessiest thing in thier dex and call it a day. Tournaments will need to run thier events as battle forged only or else we are going to see some serious crap.

And that is exactly why I think they will put clear advice on how and when to use which choice. If all they are doing is saying "hay guys, this is a fun way to play narrative games" then it's a good thing. If what they are doing is letting TFGs and WAACs weigh up if the penalty for ignoring the FOC is worth some stupidly broken combo then it is a horrid idea for pick up games, but then GW often assume players are more adult, sporting and friendly than many actually are.

 Pox Apostle wrote:
I'm actually really liking the sound of this. Particularly because I think the flip side to Unbound will be an ease of playing skirmish style 40K and having it be completely legal. I can see an honest-to-goodness ability to forge a narrative with Unbound, small 500-750 point games where you aren't hampered by bringing an HQ and 2 Troops. Come up with a cool story for an all Terminator vanilla marines force. A Ravenguard force with all jump packs. An all Sternguard Deathwatch list, etc. Have your club/store/friend's garage run a small campaign or tourney with small points games of Unbound. It actually opens up a lot more possibilities than just gak tons of Riptides and Heldrakes.

This sounds fun, but lets be honest. What type of armies do you think you will usually see in unbound: fluffy armies with a really cool theme and narrative or, 15 helldrakes/riptides?

Both ways will be legal and allowed from GWs perspective.
Why do I think so? Because they see the problem and try to balance (haha) it by giving FOC armies a bonus.

I am guessing the new Maelstrom of War scenarios do not use objectives at all, just the cards. This will nerf scoring units altogether.

I just bought a couple CSM armies off players who are done with them, giving me 8 Heldrakes. Can't wait to ruin someone's day with a big wedge of cheese.

Ho-hum, playing against certain opponents just got less attractive with the unbound rules.

RoninXiC wrote:
Both ways will be legal and allowed from GWs perspective.

Um, well, yeah.. that's the point of putting it in a rule book.

 pretre wrote:
Looks like all those 6.5 rumors just got shot down.

Maybe not... hopefully wound allocation, line of sight, challenges, etc are just tweak, not radically altered like that last edition change over.

 Squidbot wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:
Both ways will be legal and allowed from GWs perspective.

Um, well, yeah.. that's the point of putting it in a rule book.

Read what others on the last two pages wrote. They seem to think that there will be a distinction between the two ways. Like either or. It will be both.

 Lobukia wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Looks like all those 6.5 rumors just got shot down.

Maybe not... hopefully wound allocation, line of sight, challenges, etc are just tweak, not radically altered like that last edition change over.

Well, an "unbound" all-Riptide or all-Helldrake army cannot possibly work without some significant changes to scoring/missions/victory points at the very least.

 pretre wrote:
Looks like all those 6.5 rumors just got shot down.

I think there should be partial credit for the "no change to FOC" because it's true, the classic one didn't change, they just added a whole seperate one to the game.