40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**Leth**

Edit: My mistake, I thought it was the guy with the White Dwarf posting, mis-read the names

**AlmightyWalrus**

Vintersorg wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
Force organization chart thrown out of the window.
The last and more blatantly attempt to sell more big crappy miniatures (as even suggested in the the article itself!!!! O.O)

Goodbye Warhammer 40.000, it's been nice knowing you....

If you're quitting over rumors....Can I have your stuff?

It's not rumors, It's stated in the WD article.
And besides I haven't being playing 40k since a couple of years (partially to being in Sweden at University).

But now I have just more reasons to concentrate on much more enjoyable realistic historical 6mm wargames.
It's just a shame that the wonderful 40k setting is being ruined by such crappy rulesets....

I think Zion's point was that we haven't gotten the entire ruleset yet. We don't even know how the two modes interact with each other yet, calling the game "ruined" due to what might happen is premature, even with GWs track record.

**ClockworkZion**

Vintersorg wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
Force organization chart thrown out of the window.
The last and more blatantly attempt to sell more big crappy miniatures (as even suggested in the the article itself!!!! O.O)

Goodbye Warhammer 40.000, it's been nice knowing you....

If you're quitting over rumors....Can I have your stuff?

It's not rumors, It's stated in the WD article.

Which doesn't give us a full look a the rumors meaning you're reacting on half-information.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Sisters confirmed for the scariest Alpha Strike army of all Meltas then?

Sisters ? Scary ?
.
That is a good one, really. Let us see how that scary alpha-strike army does against half a dozen of helldrake ?
Do not forget that the opponent too get to mass the most powerful stuff in his/her codex.

Heldrakes don't matter if you murder the rest of his army turn 1.

**Souleater**

Da Boss wrote:
Whether or not I pick this up will depend entirely on how good the miniatures in the starter are.

Pretty much how I'm feeling at the moment. I'd like to start a BA army and wouldn't mind painting some Orks as Eternal Crusade is getting me excited about them.

The patchwork of rumours we have from these WD pages dont' sound encouraging. It sounds as if GW want to throw the fluffy (or WAAC) players against the Ordinary Joes. Which we could do ourselves without any rules...

**olympia**

No force org. Haha. oops.

**Sarge**

I don't think unbound army lists will end up being an issue. You'll play it once or twice with your friends and then go back to FoC games. And aren't apoc games almost FoC-less anyhow? Or do I just play in a weird group?

**ClockworkZion**

Leth wrote:
Did you all miss the negatives that come with your BS unbound lists?

Let me repost them here:

You receive Victory Points determined by what your OPPONENT brings.

For every Codex/Dataslate/Formation after the first one that your opponent brings, you receive two VPs.

For every duplicate of a unit your opponent brings (other than troops and their transports) you receive one VP.

For every superheavy your opponent brings you receive five VPs.

For every flyer (including FMC) after the first one your opponent brings, you receive two VPs.

For every MC your opponent brings after the first one, you receive two VPs.

For every D strength weapon your opponent brings, you receive three VPs.

For every 2++ rerollable your opponent rolls during the game you immediately receive seven VPs.

Victory Point conditions stack and are cumulative. Ergo, the second FMC in your opponent's list will yield you five VPs (+2 flyer, +2 MC, +1 duplicate unit).

In all instances in which a dispute arises the maximum number of VPs must be conveyed to the battle-forged list player.

You bring 4 riptides or fliers? I already have 9+ points. If an objective is worth 3 then you would need to CLAIM 3-4 objectives to even tie. If they remove the wipeout win condition from the rulebook all of a sudden you unbound lists look like gak dont they?

And where is this coming from?

**xttz**

jamesk1973 wrote:
Battle-forged - you obey all FOC rules and stick to one Codex.

If you bring a battle-forged list and play against an unbound list you immediately receive the following VP bonuses.

You receive Victory Points determined by what your OPPONENT brings.

For every flyer (including FMC) after the first one your opponent brings, you receive two VPs.

For every MC your opponent brings after the first one, you receive two VPs.

So basically what you're saying is that Tyranid players should automatically lose for turning up? Cool!

**jamesk1973**

Leth wrote:
Did you all miss the negatives that come with your BS unbound lists?

You bring 4 riptides or fliers? I already have 12 points. If an objective is worth 3 then you would need to CLAIM 4 objectives to even tie. If they remove the wipeout win condition from the rulebook all of a sudden you unbound lists look like gak dont they?

Dude, I'm sorry. I made that entire thing up.

I was spit-balling what would be a fair method to balance out some of the deathstar/unbound deathstar talk I heard going on.

Because to be fair - for a battle-forged list to survive against a deathstar unbound army you would probably need this much of an advantage.

**prowla**

malfred wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:
Surely it's more expensive to field a more diverse army than it is to fill it up with a few large kits?

I think the claims of "greed" on the part of GW is stretching things slightly for that particular point.

I don't think profit is a bad thing, but if it comes alongside poor game design, then I think that's crazy.

It's mostly that GW has acted as if they aren't interested in the long term fans, and for some reason are unable to look back at the good things that have made 40k such a strong name. I'm annoyed that they have, in general, an excellent line of miniatures, decent staff and a cool IP, only to combine them with poor rules and hit'n'miss sales tactics.

**ClockworkZion**

jamesk1973 wrote:
Leth wrote:
Did you all miss the negatives that come with your BS unbound lists?

You bring 4 riptides or fliers? I already have 12 points. If an objective is worth 3 then you would need to CLAIM 4 objectives to even tie. If they remove the wipeout win condition from the rulebook all of a sudden you unbound lists look like gak dont they?

Dude, I'm sorry. I made that entire thing up.

I was spit-balling what would be a fair method to balance out some of the deathstar/unbound deathstar talk I heard going on.

Because to be fair - for a battle-forged list to survive against a deathstar unbound army you would probably need this much of an advantage.

Well that at least stops that from turning into a full rumor.

**ace101**

Jaceevoke wrote:
Honestly after thinking about it for a while, I would love to see a tournament using unbound lists. One can only imagine what people would bring, it could invalidate all current competitive armies. What good is a Deathstar if your opponent brings a couple of titans? What good are titans if someone brings an all drop pod melta vets list? What good are all drop pod meltas list when your opponent brings nothing but fliers? Perhaps through this chaos we will find a perfectly balanced game, where everything is overpowered and broken with no one thing standing above the rest.

As much as i would laugh to see this happen, i think the tournaments might go for the Battle-Forged only lists, as the balance is thrown out the window with the Unbound lists.

That doesn't mean they're bad though. For each broken list i can think of, i can think of a fluffy idea, like those C:SM players can finally build the 1st company without resorting to DAs, stormtrooper army sans MT, Leman Russ Tank Company, or Complete Aspect cults fighting with their PL.

**Sigvatr**

ClockworkZion wrote:
jamesk1973 wrote:
Leth wrote:
Did you all miss the negatives that come with your BS unbound lists?

You bring 4 riptides or fliers? I already have 12 points. If an objective is worth 3 then you would need to CLAIM 4 objectives to even tie. If they remove the wipeout win condition from the rulebook all of a sudden you unbound lists look like gak dont they?

Dude, I'm sorry. I made that entire thing up.

I was spit-balling what would be a fair method to balance out some of the deathstar/unbound deathstar talk I heard going on.

Because to be fair - for a battle-forged list to survive against a deathstar unbound army you would probably need this much of an advantage.

Well that at least stops that from turning into a full rumor.

Pretre be like "awwwwwwwwww" :(

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Heldrakes don't matter if you murder the rest of his army turn 1.

That could happen… if you played without any terrain on the table

.

Troike wrote:
The silliest thing that my army, the Sisters, could do with "unbound" is probably an all-Repentia and Penitent Engine army. Actually, no, just Repentia. A table full of eviscerator-wielding crazed zealots.

That would be awesome. They would all die for the Emperor

. It would be a massive bloodbath! You would need to repaint your side of the table red afterward to represent all the blood after all those T3 svg- models met the enemies' guns!

**Crablezworth**

"people remark about specific thing in leaked whit dwarf picture"

clockworkzion: "how dare you make a rash judgement without the whole picture"

We're not, we're commenting on what we've read. Seriously, it's not hard to understand.

**jamesk1973**

ClockworkZion wrote:

Well that at least stops that from turning into a full rumor.

So...if it turns out to be true I can still claim credit...right?

**deevil**

I notice that the examples they give for unbound do not contain allies at all, I would not be surprised that one of the restrictions of Unbound would be only one Codex. No allies etc...

**Sigvatr**

To be fair, though, we have not yet been given exact rules yet. It's an author trying to sell a piece of golden poopoo. It sounds like the worst edition so far and the worst money grab in the history of GW, but that is still subject to change.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Leth wrote:
Let me repost them here:

You receive Victory Points determined by what your OPPONENT brings.
[…]
For every 2++ rerollable your opponent rolls during the game you immediately receive seven VPs.
[…]

This seems very weird. Really ? A rule acknowledging that rerollable 2++ are part of the game ? Also, the only current rerollable 2++ is not something that is present in your army list, it is acquired with psychic powers that will likely change.

**Sigvatr**

They are made-up.

**Leth**

Yep, my bad guys. Edited it out now....sigh, back to sky is falling

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Sigvatr wrote:
They are made-up.

Yep, what I thought. Leth seemed to imply they were true, though, hence my remark.

**H.B.M.C.**

I suppose this means that Abadabadoodon's dream of a Defiler Kingdoms army is now a reality.

alarmingrick wrote:
It oddly does nothing for my Griffons or Medusa...

Ouch!

**ClockworkZion**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Heldrakes don't matter if you murder the rest of his army turn 1.

That could happen… if you played without any terrain on the table .

You forgot the Dominion AOF is "Ignores Cover" didn't you?

On a different note: I had a thought of a bonus a Battle-forged army could get to counter the power an Unbound army gets: destroyed units enter Ongoing Reserves.

**angelofvengeance**

Really feels like it's going to be AM in the new starter set...

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

ClockworkZion wrote:
You forgot the Dominion AOF is "Ignores Cover" didn't you?

How could I forget it, I love it so much on my flamethrowers !
I was referring to the fact terrain, you know, also hinders movement and line of sight !
But since you insist, let us add a single unit of 10 screamers with a rerollable 2++ to the mix. There, I fixed it

.

**ClockworkZion**

Crablezworth wrote:
"people remark about specific thing in leaked whit dwarf picture"

clockworkzion: "how dare you make a rash judgement without the whole picture"

We're not, we're commenting on what we've read. Seriously, it's not hard to understand.

Actually I'm saying that the decision to make a rash judgement based on the incomplete information in the WD is a silly idea. If you're going to try and take the piss at least do it right.

That said it is silly. Some people are acting like we have the full scope of what is coming already and are reacting to it like that. The truth is we do not and won't until next week and until then it's too early to give the game up on something you don't know the full details on. For all we know Unbound armies might be limited to only playing Unbound armies.

**Flashman**

So... in an unbound army, do you still need troops to capture objectives?

I'm guessing not...

**ClockworkZion**

jamesk1973 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:

Well that at least stops that from turning into a full rumor.

So...if it turns out to be true I can still claim credit...right?

You'd have to take that up with Petre, I don't stalk people over rumors.

**pretre**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
You forgot the Dominion AOF is "Ignores Cover" didn't you?

How could I forget it, I love it so much on my flamethrowers !
I was referring to the fact terrain, you know, also hinders movement and line of sight !
But since you insist, let us add a single unit of 10 screamers with a rerollable 2++ to the mix. There, I fixed it .

Someone needs a hug.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ClockworkZion wrote:
jamesk1973 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:

Well that at least stops that from turning into a full rumor.

So...if it turns out to be true I can still claim credit...right?

You'd have to take that up with Petre, I don't stalk people over rumors.

No, because it is speculation.