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 azreal13 wrote:
I just don't see all the panic over Unbound, when the game's fethed already.

I am not panicking, I am looking forward to it. Really. Since last time I played against Tau+Eldar+Inquisition+Stronghold assault, I just want to see how my opponents will beat that, and what kind of monster they will introduce me too!

 Krinsath wrote:
It's not impossible; X-Wing really doesn't have any restrictions on what ships you can take, for example.

Yeah, but it is not written by GW . And IIRC, it has been stated in the WD leaks that the current codices will still be used.

 azreal13 wrote:
It's a "fool me once" scenario, if people are going to get up in arms every time there's partial information on a GW release and whip themselves into a frenzy over it, only to revise their opinion once more/better information becomes available, then at a certain point it ceases to be GW's fault. .

Well, yes... it ceases to be GW's fault when they start releasing actual, complete information on upcoming releases.

So long as they continue to keep everyone guessing, it can hardly be a surprise that people latch onto whatever information that they can get.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Yea I really dislike the fact that everyone just thinks this will mean endless streams of players you have never met (and are FORCED to play with) fielding 10 riptides.

Gee, it's almost as if GW wrote an article explicitly supporting people using Riptide and Broadside spam.

Yes, they did.

Did the article also support explicitly support going to a FLGS, finding someone you don't know, and then forcing them to field an FOC army against you, only to be blasted to pieces before your withering firepower?

Who are you people playing with?

Amazing the arguments & complaints that arise from just reading a short summary that no way shows how the rules will work together...


I have sources that say the pre-order is 17th with release on the 24th....

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
... I'll take my unbound army, you take your battle-forged army.....

Yes, that's the problem.

You're being forced to do this now?

It's not a matter of being forced to play. For those of us who predominantly play pick-up games, it's simply another barrier to actually getting a game in. The more crazy stuff that they try to throw into the game that a large chunk of the player base doesn't want to use, the harder it is to find an opponent whose expectations for the game match your own.

It removes the ability to just write up an army list and show up with the expectation of there being someone you can play against... Instead, every potential game turns into a negotiation as you both establish which rules you do and don't want to use.

NamelessBard wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
Why do I feel that my Thousand Sons Army (x4 HQ Psykers, 2 Aspiring Sorcerers and x1 Be'Lakor Dataslate) have been utterly shafted by this new Psychic power thing?

Sounds like a mystery to me. I mean you get an extra 1d6 warp charges (plus whatever Be'lakor gives you), meaning you can case those Warp charge 2 powers a lot easier.

What extra dice? You mean I can roll 2d6+ML to generate powers, but may perils? Still a lot of info to come on this.

I have no actual facts for this, but might I suggest taking a look at the Magic Phase from Warhammer Fantasy Battles. I have a sneaking suspicion that something very similar to that is on its way.




Which makes me very happy actually!

Warsmith262 wrote:
Holy Crap! Unbound armies are just what GW needed!!! how can we get rich kids to buy more expensive models, I got it! let the little fools use nothing but 130$ wraith knights as an elder army!! this does all make the new knight codex make more sense!

You're right! Then we can create a game where the Wraith Knight becomes just like an Eldar Guardian; then we'll "require" they take at least a squad of 5 and give them a "serpent like" transport! Oh god this is great!

We can turn Epic into 40k into Apocalypse into Epic using 54mm scale!

It will be Awesome!!!!111

Then we'll make lifesize suits that 40k LARPers can get into and play the game for real!!! Going to be huge!!! (pun intended)

They're already using the American Business model for this process.

 insaniak wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
It's a "fool me once" scenario, if people are going to get up in arms every time there's partial information on a GW release and whip themselves into a frenzy over it, only to revise their opinion once more/better information becomes available, then at a certain point it ceases to be GW's fault. .

Well, yes... it ceases to be GW's fault when they start releasing actual, complete information on upcoming releases.

So long as they continue to keep everyone guessing, it can hardly be a surprise that people latch onto whatever information that they can get.

But, if I, as no idiot but an individual not exactly of Einsteinian intellect either, have learned not to overreact to the initial drips of info, and wait and see before coming to any sort of firm conclusions, exactly how hard can it be?

 azreal13 wrote:
But, if I, as no idiot but an individual not exactly of Einsteinian intellect either, have learned not to overreact to the initial drips of info, and wait and see before coming to any sort of firm conclusions, exactly how hard can it be?

That's assuming it's an over-reaction.

GW have done nothing in the last year to give me any sort of suggestion that this release will be a positive one. I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, in the hope that 7th edition would turn the game around... but the aspects of the game that they have chosen to draw attention to do not show the new edition in a positive light.

If I come away from that feeling a little negative about the release, that's kind of to be expected.


Just to be clear here... there is no 'frenzy'. I'm way past getting that worked up about a GW release. Just disappointment at the current direction of a game that I have poured an awful lot of time, effort and cash into.

 djphranq wrote:
All I can see are Tanks everywhere... Tanks and walkers... it'll be glorious!

OMG, YES!

I really hope the bonuses for doing Battle-Forged will be good enough to be worth it. I've never been a fan of cheese-lists anyway, so I don't really want to buy a gakload of Anni-barges (I play Necrons) just because that's the only way i won't get tabled on turn 2 (I know I'm exaggerating, but I tend to be negative about this kind of stuff).

Also the new psychic phase scares me a bit as a Necron player as all they say in this document for deny-the-witch is that enemy psykers can do it.

 azreal13 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
It's a "fool me once" scenario, if people are going to get up in arms every time there's partial information on a GW release and whip themselves into a frenzy over it, only to revise their opinion once more/better information becomes available, then at a certain point it ceases to be GW's fault. .

Well, yes... it ceases to be GW's fault when they start releasing actual, complete information on upcoming releases.

So long as they continue to keep everyone guessing, it can hardly be a surprise that people latch onto whatever information that they can get.

But, if I, as no idiot but an individual not exactly of Einsteinian intellect either, have learned not to overreact to the initial drips of info, and wait and see before coming to any sort of firm conclusions, exactly how hard can it be?

Apparently quite difficult because you can't seem to stop mentioning it. If that's the case, why are you participating in a this thread?

If you're going to "wait and see" why post anything in this thread?

 Crablezworth wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I fully expect "Battle Forges" to be the standard and enforced by most tournaments

And if that's exactly the same as the "foc" we have now? You know, this simple to use little guy:

Spoiler:

I don't see the current FOC system remaining untouched, though. Reading between words in that WD article, it seems there's going to be a number of FOCs to choose from, each with a set of supporting special rules kind of like formations or the old 5th edition spearhead rules.

Anyways, I suppose the prime users of this unbound thing will be little timmies and starting players.

 insaniak wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
But, if I, as no idiot but an individual not exactly of Einsteinian intellect either, have learned not to overreact to the initial drips of info, and wait and see before coming to any sort of firm conclusions, exactly how hard can it be?

That's assuming it's an over-reaction.

GW have done nothing in the last year to give me any sort of suggestion that this release will be a positive one. I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, in the hope that 7th edition would turn the game around... but the aspects of the game that they have chosen to draw attention to do not show the new edition in a positive light.

If I come away from that feeling a little negative about the release, that's kind of to be expected.


Just to be clear here... there is no 'frenzy'. I'm way past getting that worked up about a GW release. Just disappointment at the current direction of a game that I have poured an awful lot of time, effort and cash into.

More psyker counterplay, reallignment of the allies chart, and two game modes; one traditional and one where you can choose to take whatever you want? Not sure how this is bad

Eldar wraithknight army makes sense, especially with the Imperial knight one. doesn't mean they will be all that good.

im not sure what i like less, unbound or sideboards and percentage caps

 insaniak wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
But, if I, as no idiot but an individual not exactly of Einsteinian intellect either, have learned not to overreact to the initial drips of info, and wait and see before coming to any sort of firm conclusions, exactly how hard can it be?

That's assuming it's an over-reaction.

GW have done nothing in the last year to give me any sort of suggestion that this release will be a positive one. I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, in the hope that 7th edition would turn the game around... but the aspects of the game that they have chosen to draw attention to do not show the new edition in a positive light.

If I come away from that feeling a little negative about the release, that's kind of to be expected.


Just to be clear here... there is no 'frenzy'. I'm way past getting that worked up about a GW release. Just disappointment at the current direction of a game that I have poured an awful lot of time, effort and cash into.

It's certainly disheartening for them to mention battle forged and unbound and then gleefully focus primarily on the latter.

 djphranq wrote:
All I can see are Tanks everywhere... Tanks and walkers... it'll be glorious!

What have you been playing? Walkers are terrible!

Anyways, on topic, I think GW has now jumped the shark.

On the one hand, it would be nice to field all my dreadnoughts at the same time, and still use other elites. BUT as it has been pointed out already, you have always been free to house rule or create campaigns with what ever kind of FOC you want. Most campaigns involve FOC manipulation.

I see arguments on both sides.

What isn't totally 'fluffy' about an all Leman Russ force? They won't be able to score. (if you survive to make it to objective calculation)

But just like the 1999+1 army lists, I'm sure tournaments will just ban 'unbound' army lists. Unless the bonuses for 'Battle Forged' are just that good. But if the warlord charts are any indication, the bonuses will be terrible.

 ironicsilence wrote:
im not sure what i like less, unbound or sideboards and percentage caps

Thought the % force org was debunked?

Seems to be a lot of assumptions that Battleforged armies will have to face off against Unbound... Seems unlikely.

ickz wrote:


Also the new psychic phase scares me a bit as a Necron player as all they say in this document for deny-the-witch is that enemy psykers can do it.

It sounds very Warhammer-esque; in which you always have a chance of dis-spelling enemy magic even if you have no wizards.

I'd remember though that this 'document' is just a short summary of new ideas rather than the hard rules.

 insaniak wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
But, if I, as no idiot but an individual not exactly of Einsteinian intellect either, have learned not to overreact to the initial drips of info, and wait and see before coming to any sort of firm conclusions, exactly how hard can it be?

That's assuming it's an over-reaction.

Nope, based on a small amount of information, I'm stating it is an overreaction. People ITT have explicitly stated that they're quitting the game based on what is essentially a fluff article in WD, who, let's face it, are going to be targeting all the little Timmys in what they emphasise and draw attention to.

GW have done nothing in the last year to give me any sort of suggestion that this release will be a positive one. I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, in the hope that 7th edition would turn the game around... but the aspects of the game that they have chosen to draw attention to do not show the new edition in a positive light.

Again, consider who WDW is chiefly aimed at. If the new Psychic phase has all the nuanced tactical bluff and double bluff of championship poker, that isn't really going to appeal to the likely pocket money purchaser of the magazine.

If I come away from that feeling a little negative about the release, that's kind of to be expected.


Just to be clear here... there is no 'frenzy'. I'm way past getting that worked up about a GW release. Just disappointment at the current direction of a game that I have poured an awful lot of time, effort and cash into.

Ditto, and I'm not really including your comments when I say some people appear to be overreacting, I'm very much of the same mind, but I'm not willing to close the door on 7th being a good thing based in just this article.

ickz wrote:

Also the new psychic phase scares me a bit as a Necron player as all they say in this document for deny-the-witch is that enemy psykers can do it.

How i read it is that everyone gets a D6, and then +1 for every psyker mastery level you have in the army.

So at the least you'll have a D6 (1-6) charges you can use to either Deny or try to nullify an enemy blessing or what not, for those with no psykers.

 Lorizael wrote:

ickz wrote:


Also the new psychic phase scares me a bit as a Necron player as all they say in this document for deny-the-witch is that enemy psykers can do it.

It sounds very Warhammer-esque; in which you always have a chance of dis-spelling enemy magic even if you have no wizards.

I'd remember though that this 'document' is just a short summary of new ideas rather than the hard rules.

Yeah, but the most equivalent army in WFB would be the dwarfs with their close to zero magic phase, but they get a lot more ways to dispel instead. I kinda hope this happens with the necrons too, but it would require a new FAQ or codex.

But you're right about this just being a short summary, surely GW must have thought about this already (at least I hope they have)

I can see bad stuff coming with Unbound and Power Gamers, but I can definitely dig the fact we can now play whatever we want now.

I've wanted to play a Harlequin Army (like 2nd Ed) for years, but never could until now.

Same goes for an army of Sternguard as a Deathwatch army. Well now I can.

Hell... Even an historical 40k army is possible.

It's exciting, but also very scary if you end up playing "That Guy".

If this book really is $100...

Looks like I'm going to write a "not-but-could-be-40k" community rule set that gets distributed for free.

I just find it disheartening that we have an edition where the FOC is a mess, where allies and formations and dataslates are making the game far more complicated than it ever should be, and GW's solution to this is... throw out the FOC!

Great.

Puscifer wrote:
I've wanted to play a Harlequin Army (like 2nd Ed) for years, but never could until now.

Why couldn't you? What was stopping you?

Okay I just realized that Eldar is getting Daemonology, and might summon daemons.

Can someone explain to me what is going on there.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just find it disheartening that we have an edition where the FOC is a mess, where allies and formations and dataslates are making the game far more complicated than it ever should be, and GW's solution to this is... throw out the FOC!

Great.

Puscifer wrote:
I've wanted to play a Harlequin Army (like 2nd Ed) for years, but never could until now.

Why couldn't you? What was stopping you?

The FOC. Nobody would play against it.

 djphranq wrote:
All I can see are Tanks everywhere... Tanks and walkers... it'll be glorious!

Hah! Meet your doom against Space Wolf Heavy Weapon army

Puscifer wrote:
The FOC. Nobody would play against it.

And this changes now... how?