40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**Pilau Rice**

I can understand a psyker being possessed accidentally, so to speak, by a daemon as result of a failed perils of the warp test but for a none daemon aligned faction to be able to summon one seems off.

Eldar or Dark Eldar summoning a Keeper of Secrets springs to mind

I guess it could make sense for the Inquisition or Grey Knights to be able to summon Daemons but to force possession?

I'm obviously looking at this from a fluff perspective rather than a rules one.

ClockworkZion wrote:
Pilau Rice wrote:
But from a fluff perspective, why would Ezekiel summon a Blood Thirster for aid?

Because the heresy of the Dark Angels knows no bounds?

They are a bit dodgy so .. I'll give you that one

**Rick_1138**

I hope that it was just to test the rules for summoning etc, and loyalists will not be able to do such things, as even GW isn't daft enough o ruin their fluff as they are quite fond of it, and rightly so.

However if it is true, makes for some interesting army lists, draigo wing with tzeentch anyone?

**Krinsath**

The only way I could see such a thing working game-wise is if doing that for a non-Chaos army limits you to a draw. Then it could at least serve as something of an equalizer if you were getting trounced and therefore a reason to keep playing against some horrible Unbound list.

Outside of that incredibly limited niche though, it seems like a daft idea and completely against the "rules" of the IP they've built over the last 25+ years. I'll hold off final judgement until more concrete information is available, but what I've heard so far of 7th has me completely unexcited.

**Medium of Death**

Loyalists summoning Daemons is ridiculous.

I hope they change it to a perils of the warp type outcome instead.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

WarOne wrote:
I have now snapped.

In gratitude to GW and the rumors of their rules for breaking me, I now rock a new avatar for the levels of seething hatred I now harbor (for those who do not see it, it's an Angry Marine).

How did you get the rank to go with it? It is awesome!

KommissarKarl wrote:
Codexes will always be release-printed. […] have omitted that most of what you are talking about is mini-dexes and data slates.

No.

Really, it is too bad that daemonology is only for psyker. Getting a Saint Celestine vs Asdrubael Vect fight suddenly transform into a duel between two keepers of secret would be mightily awesome. And so totally fluffy!

**unmercifulconker**

Ok I do feel stupid, had to re-read the phrase: "In one of our test games, all for the purpose of research of course."

This leads me to believe we wont see any of this foul heretical behaviour in the rules. Sorry GW, I apologise to you for that one.

Edit: I do actually really like demon summoning although would much prefer a random no-ally system unless of course chaos since demons would very much like to enter the material realm at any chance and destroy all in their wake.

**rabidguineapig**

I'll forge a narrative: Coteaz continues to grow older and worry about what his sector will become when he dies. Finally giving in to his desires, he summons a Daemon to extend his life indefinitely. Something goes horribly well, and he becomes a Bloodthirster who proceeds to turn on his own men and murder everyone in sight. Whoops.

**ClockworkZion**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
How did you get the rank to go with it? It is awesome!

DCM Perk.

**Rick_1138**

Yeah I think demonology may be a new psychic discipline that has to be allowed, i.e. elder can take from the BRB or the codex etc, so it will be with Chaos Marines and maybe dark elder?

**PhantomViper**

gorgon wrote:
oni wrote:
I've been reading the leaked WD at face value rather than trying to read between the lines and nowhere does it say or hint at that Unbound armies and Battle-Forged armies play each other. The allusion to in-game bonuses for Battle-Forged armies does not equal Unbound armies and Battle-Forged armies play each other.

I believe that the intent of the statement is to point out that playing games (you and your opponent) using Battle-Forged armies is still desirable as to take advantage of added game rules. Not necessarily that Battle-Forged armies get bonuses to aid their shortcomings vs. an Unbound army.

Panic party pooper.

If Battle Forged armies are not supposed to play against Unbound armies, then why would they have bonuses? If their only purpose would be to fight other Battle Forged armies then both would get the bonuses and would supposedly cancel each other out.

If the purpose of the bonuses would just be to "take advantage of added game rules" (and added game rules aren't an advantage, when they add nothing of value as this would be the case then they are a disadvantage because they just add unneeded complexity for complexities sake), then why wouldn't Unbound armies have them as well?

**kronk**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
WarOne wrote:
I have now snapped.

In gratitude to GW and the rumors of their rules for breaking me, I now rock a new avatar for the levels of seething hatred I now harbor (for those who do not see it, it's an Angry Marine).

How did you get the rank to go with it? It is awesome!

You can read about DCM perks in this link. Custom Title is one of them.

**Ignatius-Grulgor**

Assuming it is just testing with how it reads, however the ability to turn relatively cheap sorcerers into bloodthirsters or maybe any greater daemon could be a little broken, I assume it'll have a high chance for failure, or requires a large amount of the psychic pool to attempt, but I'm getting more worried with every little bit of information that appears.

**SkaerKrow**

If you think that Psykers being able to summon Daemons is "fluff-breaking," then you haven't been paying attention to the game's lore. Psykers are feared for a reason, beyond mere superstition. Now whether or not your Chief Librarian is willing to turn to the Ruinous Powers so that you can secure victory, that decision is yours. GW is just putting that choice into your hands, instead of hard-coding it into the rules.

I for one welcome our new heretical masters.

**rryannn**

"Roll 2D6 and compare your results to the chart of demons listed below:"

And they sold us all a demon army in the process!!!!

**Kanluwen**

Squidbot wrote:
I think the first paragraph is very important, specifically the word "allowing".

Shhh, don't bring logic into the panic party.

**katfude**

Hopefully all this "turning idyllic characters that are stalwart defenders of humanity into daemon frenzied idiots" is just WD farts of stupidity.

If it's not, hopefully this crap is only allowed in "unbound' which I will then proceed to call it: Warhammer 40K:

All Edition.

**unmercifulconker**

They said we were stupid for hating psykers, what could go wrong they said, psykers are fine they said.

Well look whos laughing now ya smelly witches.

A templar can sleep soundly at night knowing there is no risk of a psyker going mental and becoming possessed.

**kronk**

I'm hoping that Ezikiel accidentally summoned a daemon. Not intentionally.

Kronk is willing to wait and see the rules before judging, but I don't think I can keep my knee from jerking much longer.

Also, never trust a Librarian.

**MWHistorian**

KommissarKarl wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
insaniak wrote:

Codexes will always be release-printed.

Cough*Sisters of Battle*cough!

**StarTrotter**

Leggy wrote:
As the psychic phase now uses a dice pool, is it safe to assume psychic tests aren't based on leadership anymore? I can't see how you'd want to roll MORE dice when keeping under 9-10.
However If it goes the way of Warhammer, and starts using target numbers, what will happen to all the psychic powers in the Codexes? That is a lot of renumbering needed in the FAQ's (and will really mess up the signature spell for Tzeentch daemons)

Man that'd suck. There goes one perk of playing Tzeentch daemons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

reds8n wrote:
Kindly brought to us by Mr Rick_1138

Good work fella !

This may be in wrong bit, but as its not a rumour(WD official text) and its not news I wasn't sure, but move if needs be mods

A mate just showed me this picture on FB:

Read the red box text, second paragraph of text, basically Ezekial like the possession......hmmmm

...

.... Thanks. Well, goodbye 40k!

Joking aside, I'll hold onto some vain hope that this was pure just testing bs to do it and not the exact rules.

**unmercifulconker**

I wonder if Khorne will get a special section. I dont really want to have to introduce khornes most hated people into my army so I can summon khorne demons.

Perhaps like the old codex and you can chance sacrificing a champion only after they have caused a certain amount of unsaved wounds?

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

ClockworkZion wrote:
DCM Perk.

kronk wrote:
You can read about DCM perks in this link. Custom Title is one of them.

Thanks

.

unmercifulconker wrote:
A templar can sleep soundly at night knowing there is no risk of a psyker going mental and becoming possessed.

Or so you think. Wait until GW next change to your chapter's fluff

.

**rabidguineapig**

All I can hope is that unless you are playing Chaos, there is an overwhelming chance that your Deamon summoning results in a pissed off Bloodthirster replacing your idiot psyker that was dumb enough to sacrifice himself, who then proceeds to murder your entire squad, gather their skulls, and leave.

**Kanluwen**

kronk wrote:
I'm hoping that Ezikiel accidentally summoned a daemon. Not intentionally.

From the way the snippet in White Dwarf is worded, Malefic Daemonlogy is not something that would usually be available to Ezekiel and they tried it "in the name of research and playtesting".

Ezekiel has a pretty high Mastery level(3) so that might be why Ezekiel was used for it.

**reds8n**

I'm hoping that it works along the lines of one buys the 'thirster ( or other daemon presumably ?) with the rest of your army and then have the option of falling to the darkside/whatever ... or not .... during the game.

Still think that is the sort of thing that works better in a specific scenario, but.. all depend upon exactly how it works.

**Yodhrin**

Kanluwen wrote:
kronk wrote:
I'm hoping that Ezikiel accidentally summoned a daemon. Not intentionally.

From the way the snippet in White Dwarf is worded, Malefic Daemonlogy is not something that would usually be available to Ezekiel and they tried it "in the name of research and playtesting".

Ezekiel has a pretty high Mastery level(3) so that might be why Ezekiel was used for it.

It's also possible to interpret that remark as making light of the fact that most of the people reading that blurb would think it's bloody ludicrous to have a loyalist special character summoning daemonic entities to win games. Like if I were to go to the pub, and a friend were to offer me a new beer to try, which I found I rather liked, I might say; "I had better order a second, purely for research purposes you understand, to make sure I like it."

**unmercifulconker**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
unmercifulconker wrote:
A templar can sleep soundly at night knowing there is no risk of a psyker going mental and becoming possessed.

Or so you think. Wait until GW next change to your chapter's fluff .

They can change our stats, but they'll never change.....OUR HATE!

Edit: Even though they kind of already have, we still hate them in spirit.

**ClockworkZion**

I'm on the side of "it was playtesting" until GW proves otherwise. I don't see a point in getting wound up about it just yet.

**streamdragon**

Considering they have already said there are two sides to the new Daemonic Summoning skill "Malefic" and "Sanctic". Now I know fake latin is fake, but I don't think it takes much to realize that "Good" armies will get "Santic" and "Evil" armies will get "Malefic".

Could be wrong though. I guess some armies (like IG/AM) could have access to both to allow for LatD or Fallen Guard type armies.

**unmercifulconker**

ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm on the side of "it was playtesting" until GW proves otherwise. I don't see a point in getting wound up about it just yet.

Yep, seems to be written as a one off what if moment.My fault for originally not reading carefully and jumping to conclusions.