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 unmercifulconker wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm on the side of "it was playtesting" until GW proves otherwise. I don't see a point in getting wound up about it just yet.

Yep, seems to be written as a one off what if moment.My fault for originally not reading carefully and jumping to conclusions.

Isn't that what the internet is best at?

I wonder if Daemonology will have a disclaimer:

Use of this psychic discipline requires a copy of Codex: Chaos Daemons for play.

 Accolade wrote:
I wonder if Daemonology will have a disclaimer:

Use of this psychic discipline requires a copy of Codex: Chaos Daemons for play.

Probably. That or you use the profile in the rulebook but can't access any of the codex special rules (and only get the profile of the model in question and the Daemon special rule).

 unmercifulconker wrote:
They can change our stats, but they'll never change.....OUR HATE!

Edit: Even though they kind of already have, we still hate them in spirit.

That is the spirit!
Personally, as a Sister player, I will add that they will never change our model either .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Personally, as a Sister player, I will add that they will never change our model either .

Ouch. That one hurt.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm on the side of "it was playtesting" until GW proves otherwise. I don't see a point in getting wound up about it just yet.

Yep, seems to be written as a one off what if moment.My fault for originally not reading carefully and jumping to conclusions.

Isn't that what the internet is best at?

Damn straight.

 Yodhrin wrote:


It's also possible to interpret that remark as making light of the fact that most of the people reading that blurb would think it's bloody ludicrous to have a loyalist special character summoning daemonic entities to win games. Like if I were to go to the pub, and a friend were to offer me a new beer to try, which I found I rather liked, I might say; "I had better order a second, purely for research purposes you understand, to make sure I like it."

That's pretty much how I interpret it as well, given the tone and writing of WD.

Plus when was the last time they told us about something they playtested that didn't make the rules? "We were going to give you this ability but..."

You are forgetting a basic GW fact here.

WD is and has been a huge advert, and that is all it has been.

WD has never, to my knowledge, shown and highlighted some part of playtesting that wasn't part of the allowed rules system.

I think this was playtsting Malefic Demonology, as allowed, under Unbound to see what could be accomplished. I think as the description for unbound states you can use all your models, people should take it at its face that you can use all your models.

The best way for GW to sell models via thier advert mag is to show GW using them with truely no limits.

If 7th is shown to break something as fundemental as the FOC chart to the historical rules of 40K, why would people think that something as recent as "allies" would not also be thrown out the window, given the companies desire to sell any and all models to anyone that wants to use one?

When a company starts promoting its newest edition by showing that it has broken rules, and has a history of non-restraint, why would people think they would show any kind of restraint? This rule set is all about unleashing the product line to -all- players.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I'm hoping that Ezikiel accidentally summoned a daemon. Not intentionally.

From the way the snippet in White Dwarf is worded, Malefic Daemonlogy is not something that would usually be available to Ezekiel and they tried it "in the name of research and playtesting".

Ezekiel has a pretty high Mastery level(3) so that might be why Ezekiel was used for it.

Eh... I wouldn't say it quite implies that either. The statement is "the advent of Daemonology has caused many moral quandaries in the White Dwarf office, not least for our Adam Troke. A staunch Dark Angels collector, Adam found himself allowing none other than Grand Master Ezekiel himself to use Malefic Daemonology powers in one of our test games - all in the interests of research and playtesting, of course."

First of all, ha ha playtesting. Second of all, I wouldn't quite say anything like that. Why would it form moral quandaries? If the rules stated that the Imperium factions didn't get to use the malefic side, why would it give them moral questions? The only way it would, logically, cause such up in the air problems is if they had the rules to it. That's why I have a bad feeling about it.

 streamdragon wrote:
Is it possible that they designers allowed the Space Marine player to use something not normally available to them, just for the purposes of their test game?

Is it really a test game if they just ignore the rules anyway?

I'm assuming that by test game they mean the WD staff trying out the rules, not playtesting the rules.

Knowing GW, they could be the same though.

Shotgun wrote:
WD has never, to my knowledge, shown and highlighted some part of playtesting that wasn't part of the allowed rules system.

They have shown off things we can't take before (like Heavy Flamer Tactical Marines).

 streamdragon wrote:
Considering they have already said there are two sides to the new Daemonic Summoning skill "Malefic" and "Sanctic". Now I know fake latin is fake, but I don't think it takes much to realize that "Good" armies will get "Santic" and "Evil" armies will get "Malefic".

Could be wrong though. I guess some armies (like IG/AM) could have access to both to allow for LatD or Fallen Guard type armies.

Oh please, these are the same individuals that randomly restrict psyker spells and didn't give Ahriman any divination (along with tzeentch csm in general) and instead made the seeker of knowledge specialized in shooting the hell out of people

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Personally, as a Sister player, I will add that they will never change our model either .

Ouch. That one hurt.

I was not even familiar with you previous avatar, and you already switched to a new one. By the time they release new Sister models, you will have gone through many thousands of avatars !

 kronk wrote:


Also, never trust a Librarian.

I'll take your word for i... Wait a minute!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Shotgun wrote:
WD has never, to my knowledge, shown and highlighted some part of playtesting that wasn't part of the allowed rules system.

They have shown off things we can't take before (like Heavy Flamer Tactical Marines).

And 5-women dominion squads with 4 special weapons, for the battle report that came with the WDex, even though the WDex did not allow that. The digidex does.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Personally, as a Sister player, I will add that they will never change our model either .

Ouch. That one hurt.

I was not even familiar with you previous avatar, and you already switched to a new one. By the time they release new Sister models, you will have gone through many thousands of avatars !

Darn it I too wasn't prepared! I just managed to get used to the glorious moustache man and it's already changed faster than the 6th to 7th edition!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Personally, as a Sister player, I will add that they will never change our model either .

Ouch. That one hurt.

I was not even familiar with you previous avatar, and you already switched to a new one. By the time they release new Sister models, you will have gone through many thousands of avatars !

Nah. I just needed to change things up as I was feeling far too serious about the internet again and needed something lighthearted. I won't be changing again for a while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Shotgun wrote:
WD has never, to my knowledge, shown and highlighted some part of playtesting that wasn't part of the allowed rules system.

They have shown off things we can't take before (like Heavy Flamer Tactical Marines).

And 5-women dominion squads with 4 special weapons, for the battle report that came with the WDex, even though the WDex did not allow that. The digidex does.

That's a good example on the rules side of things for sure!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Personally, as a Sister player, I will add that they will never change our model either .

Ouch. That one hurt.

I was not even familiar with you previous avatar, and you already switched to a new one. By the time they release new Sister models, you will have gone through many thousands of avatars !

Darn it I too wasn't prepared! I just managed to get used to the glorious moustache man and it's already changed faster than the 6th to 7th edition!

I apologize. I shouldn't be changing for a while if it's any consolation.

 reds8n wrote:
Kindly brought to us by Mr Rick_1138

Good work fella !

This may be in wrong bit, but as its not a rumour(WD official text) and its not news I wasn't sure, but move if needs be mods

A mate just showed me this picture on FB:



Read the red box text, second paragraph of text, basically Ezekial like the possession......hmmmm

...

Oh man... thank goodness I play Tyranids and won't have to wrestle with whether or not to pull this kind of stupidity in-game (since we don't have access to it). Ugh.

News and Rumors: where apparently my avatar changes catch people more off guard than whatever GW is doing.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Shotgun wrote:
WD has never, to my knowledge, shown and highlighted some part of playtesting that wasn't part of the allowed rules system.

They have shown off things we can't take before (like Heavy Flamer Tactical Marines).

And 5-women dominion squads with 4 special weapons, for the battle report that came with the WDex, even though the WDex did not allow that. The digidex does.

And don't forget Tyranids versus Riptide legion. I think that broke it. Also their imbalanced point matches and I could have sworn they've broken the rules multiple times. Although I still have a bad hunch malefic daemon summoning will be a thing simply because of their odd "moral questions" which it really wouldn't normally.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Shotgun wrote:
WD has never, to my knowledge, shown and highlighted some part of playtesting that wasn't part of the allowed rules system.

They have shown off things we can't take before (like Heavy Flamer Tactical Marines).

And 5-women dominion squads with 4 special weapons, for the battle report that came with the WDex, even though the WDex did not allow that. The digidex does.

And don't forget Tyranids versus Riptide legion. I think that broke it. Also their imbalanced point matches and I could have sworn they've broken the rules multiple times. Although I still have a bad hunch malefic daemon summoning will be a thing simply because of their odd "moral questions" which it really wouldn't normally.

Or it could just be flowery writing...

It's too early to tell and people are reading way too much into a blurb.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Shotgun wrote:
WD has never, to my knowledge, shown and highlighted some part of playtesting that wasn't part of the allowed rules system.

They have shown off things we can't take before (like Heavy Flamer Tactical Marines).

And 5-women dominion squads with 4 special weapons, for the battle report that came with the WDex, even though the WDex did not allow that. The digidex does.

And don't forget Tyranids versus Riptide legion. I think that broke it. Also their imbalanced point matches and I could have sworn they've broken the rules multiple times. Although I still have a bad hunch malefic daemon summoning will be a thing simply because of their odd "moral questions" which it really wouldn't normally.

Let's just assume that CSM are the only ones who WON'T get to summon Daemons just so we're ready for the worst.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Shotgun wrote:
WD has never, to my knowledge, shown and highlighted some part of playtesting that wasn't part of the allowed rules system.

They have shown off things we can't take before (like Heavy Flamer Tactical Marines).

And 5-women dominion squads with 4 special weapons, for the battle report that came with the WDex, even though the WDex did not allow that. The digidex does.

And don't forget Tyranids versus Riptide legion. I think that broke it. Also their imbalanced point matches and I could have sworn they've broken the rules multiple times. Although I still have a bad hunch malefic daemon summoning will be a thing simply because of their odd "moral questions" which it really wouldn't normally.

Let's just assume that CSM are the only ones who WON'T get to summon Daemons just so we're ready for the worst.

I'm sorry I'm too busy entertaining the possibility of a Greater Daemon exploding to summon a new Greater Daemon

*rolls Warp Tether* Daemon almost dies, DSes onto battlefield. Summons a LoC (because I think that'd be the most entertaining) with full health! Actually, just imagine daemons of Tzeentch. Everybody summon a MC! Behold my legion of MCs!

 StarTrotter wrote:
I'm sorry I'm too busy entertaining the possibility of a Greater Daemon exploding to summon a new Greater Daemon

Meanwhile at GW:
"I've got it! We'll put a Daemon INSIDE OF ANOTHER DAEMON!" *beat* "BRILLIANT SIR! Absolutely brilliant!"

Herzlos wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Is it possible that they designers allowed the Space Marine player to use something not normally available to them, just for the purposes of their test game?

Is it really a test game if they just ignore the rules anyway?

I'm assuming that by test game they mean the WD staff trying out the rules, not playtesting the rules.

Knowing GW, they could be the same though.

The play test was probably for those specific rules, rather than the whole game in its entirety. Admittedly I am not a play tester (aside from beta testing some video games), but it would make sense to play test in small chunks to see which things work and which don't.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
News and Rumors: where apparently my avatar changes catch people more off guard than whatever GW is doing.

This new one keeps my comments in line better!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
I'm sorry I'm too busy entertaining the possibility of a Greater Daemon exploding to summon a new Greater Daemon

Meanwhile at GW:
"I got it! We'll put a Daemon INSIDE OF ANOTHER DAEMON!" *beat* "BRILLIANT SIR! Absolutely brilliant!"

Yo dawg...


Seriously though, when you think about the fact that the article said all non-Tyranid psykers get access to the Daemonology discipline, and there are psyker greater daemons...

 StarTrotter wrote:
Second of all, I wouldn't quite say anything like that. Why would it form moral quandaries? If the rules stated that the Imperium factions didn't get to use the malefic side, why would it give them moral questions? The only way it would, logically, cause such up in the air problems is if they had the rules to it. That's why I have a bad feeling about it.

Don't you have a moral dilemma when you want to do something that isn't allowed, rather than when you want to do something permitted?

Iamjack42 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Second of all, I wouldn't quite say anything like that. Why would it form moral quandaries? If the rules stated that the Imperium factions didn't get to use the malefic side, why would it give them moral questions? The only way it would, logically, cause such up in the air problems is if they had the rules to it. That's why I have a bad feeling about it.

Don't you have a moral dilemma when you want to do something that isn't allowed, rather than when you want to do something permitted?

When it is something like Ahriman using divination? I suppose you are right. Besides that though, I'd never think to just let Ezekiel cast a daemon summoning spell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streamdragon wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
I'm sorry I'm too busy entertaining the possibility of a Greater Daemon exploding to summon a new Greater Daemon

Meanwhile at GW:
"I got it! We'll put a Daemon INSIDE OF ANOTHER DAEMON!" *beat* "BRILLIANT SIR! Absolutely brilliant!"

Yo dawg...


Seriously though, when you think about the fact that the article said all non-Tyranid psykers get access to the Daemonology discipline, and there are psyker greater daemons...

I am saddened to know Tyranids can't. Imagine the possibilities if they had! Even your land lovers might be capable of sprouting wings!

Iamjack42 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Second of all, I wouldn't quite say anything like that. Why would it form moral quandaries? If the rules stated that the Imperium factions didn't get to use the malefic side, why would it give them moral questions? The only way it would, logically, cause such up in the air problems is if they had the rules to it. That's why I have a bad feeling about it.

Don't you have a moral dilemma when you want to do something that isn't allowed, rather than when you want to do something permitted?

I think that they mean moral in a fluff sense - from the POV of the marine, rather than moral against the rules.