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Iamjack42 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Second of all, I wouldn't quite say anything like that. Why would it form moral quandaries? If the rules stated that the Imperium factions didn't get to use the malefic side, why would it give them moral questions? The only way it would, logically, cause such up in the air problems is if they had the rules to it. That's why I have a bad feeling about it.

Don't you have a moral dilemma when you want to do something that isn't allowed, rather than when you want to do something permitted?

I think the moral dilemma would be doing something that appears contradictory to the fluff: i.e. using a Loyalist Space Marine (of noted stalwart qualities in the fluff) to somehow be on buddy-buddy terms to call down a Bloodthirster.

I mean, Blood Pact psykers can't even do that! (to my knowledge).

Dear Khorne, I know I don't pray to you very often, but if you could, just this once, turn me into a Bloodthirster so I could destroy this alien menance, I would be sooooo thankful.

 streamdragon wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
I'm sorry I'm too busy entertaining the possibility of a Greater Daemon exploding to summon a new Greater Daemon

Meanwhile at GW:
"I got it! We'll put a Daemon INSIDE OF ANOTHER DAEMON!" *beat* "BRILLIANT SIR! Absolutely brilliant!"

Yo dawg...


Seriously though, when you think about the fact that the article said all non-Tyranid psykers get access to the Daemonology discipline, and there are psyker greater daemons...

Didn't the overall article also say Daemons were the only ones who wouldn't have a penalty...

Actually let me look again.

Here we go:

Beware, however, if you're not a Daemonspawn yourself, the cost may be high...

So yeah, Daemons probably don't get exploding Psykers.

 Accolade wrote:

Iamjack42 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Second of all, I wouldn't quite say anything like that. Why would it form moral quandaries? If the rules stated that the Imperium factions didn't get to use the malefic side, why would it give them moral questions? The only way it would, logically, cause such up in the air problems is if they had the rules to it. That's why I have a bad feeling about it.

Don't you have a moral dilemma when you want to do something that isn't allowed, rather than when you want to do something permitted?

I think the moral dilemma would be doing something that appears contradictory to the fluff: i.e. using a Loyalist Space Marine (of noted stalwart qualities in the fluff) to somehow be on buddy-buddy terms to call down a Bloodthirster.

I mean, Blood Pact psykers can't even do that! (to my knowledge).

Dear Khorne, I know I don't pray to you very often, but if you could, just this once, turn me into a Bloodthirster so I could destroy this alien menance, I would be sooooo thankful.

And on that day ol' bloody Khorne the friendly blessed his faithful follower with the power of RAGE and awesomeness.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
I'm sorry I'm too busy entertaining the possibility of a Greater Daemon exploding to summon a new Greater Daemon

Meanwhile at GW:
"I've got it! We'll put a Daemon INSIDE OF ANOTHER DAEMON!" *beat* "BRILLIANT SIR! Absolutely brilliant!"

And, of course, losing all Rewards. Your 305p LoC is now a stock Keeper of Secrets, with a Reward list as nude as (s)he.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
I'm sorry I'm too busy entertaining the possibility of a Greater Daemon exploding to summon a new Greater Daemon

Meanwhile at GW:
"I've got it! We'll put a Daemon INSIDE OF ANOTHER DAEMON!" *beat* "BRILLIANT SIR! Absolutely brilliant!"

And, of course, losing all Rewards. Your 305p LoC is now a stock Keeper of Secrets, with a Reward list as nude as (s)he.

Pssht you are thinking about it all wrong! The LoC gets to 1W left THEN he summons himself through a loophole. Sure, he sacrafices his buffs but he returns with the fury of a screaming bird of anger. Wait, oh no guys. LoC becoming Plagues and Keeper of Secrets becoming Khorne! And you are ignoring heralds becoming Lords of Change that then become more glorious Lords of Change!

Even to my chaotic nose I can smell the heresy fermenting.

I hope that example in white dwarf is just for "unbound" armies and not an actual option for all psykers to take. That story grabs both the rules and the fluff and turns them into an unwilling participant in a Tijuana donkey show if it is allowed in "normal" games.

Is it really a violation of the background to let 'good' psykers summon daemons?

I thought that one of the reasons the Imperium is so distrustful of psykers is the way that pretty much any one of them can serve as a gateway for daemons to enter the material world. So even if they don't do it very often for fairly obvious reasons, most psykers should have the option of summoning something when things get truly desperate.

It could also be the case that the Dark Angels get access to both types of power because they are meant to be the kind of guys who do collect forbidden lore, make dubious decisions in pursuit of their own agenda and just possibly might be corrupted by chaos. There's no reason to think that every Imperial psyker can use Malefic powers.

 warboss wrote:
I hope that example in white dwarf is just for "unbound" armies and not an actual option for all psykers to take. That story grabs both the rules and the fluff and turns them into an unwilling participant in a Tijuana donkey show if it is allowed in "normal" games.

I'm honestly a bit cautious about unbound armies getting this . Imagine a daemon army of Tzeentch summoning an extra daemon army of Tzeentch! Darn it, where are my renegade psykers for cultists!? The gods need plenty of sacrifice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Is it really a violation of the background to let 'good' psykers summon daemons?

I thought that one of the reasons the Imperium is so distrustful of psykers is the way that pretty much any one of them can serve as a gateway for daemons to enter the material world. So even if they don't do it very often for fairly obvious reasons, most psykers should have the option of summoning something when things get truly desperate.

It could also be the case that the Dark Angels get access to both types of power because they are meant to be the kind of guys who do collect forbidden lore, make dubious decisions in pursuit of their own agenda and just possibly might be corrupted by chaos. There's no reason to think that every Imperial psyker can use Malefic powers.

Nor is there a reason not to. Thing is, psykers activating it would work fluff wise if it was a perils of the warp thing.

I wanted to know if that would be possible.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I wanted to know if that would be possible.

If what would be possible?

For me its not so much the issue of a daemon bursting out of a space marine psyker as we all know, being psyker creates huge risks.

If this was set in stone for the fluff then it meant a Dark Angel veteran, a hero, a staunch defender of the imperium, who despises all enemies of the Emperor, created to vanquish evil, who value dying for the Emperor instead of living to save himself, gave up all that before death and willingly summoned the most hated creatures of the Imperium.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Is it really a violation of the background to let 'good' psykers summon daemons?

I thought that one of the reasons the Imperium is so distrustful of psykers is the way that pretty much any one of them can serve as a gateway for daemons to enter the material world. So even if they don't do it very often for fairly obvious reasons, most psykers should have the option of summoning something when things get truly desperate.

It could also be the case that the Dark Angels get access to both types of power because they are meant to be the kind of guys who do collect forbidden lore, make dubious decisions in pursuit of their own agenda and just possibly might be corrupted by chaos. There's no reason to think that every Imperial psyker can use Malefic powers.

This.

Further, I have to say that it captures the essence of being a psyker really well and projects it onto the player; we all know you're not supposed to summon daemons because it's rather dangerous (to put it mildly), but if it could let you win the game? Can you resist the temptation?

As long as the new rules. Grant Swarmy lord EW and wings I'm fine with all the changes.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
For me its not so much the issue of a daemon bursting out of a space marine psyker as we all know, being psyker creates huge risks.

If this was set in stone for the fluff then it meant a Dark Angel veteran, a hero, a staunch defender of the imperium, who despises all enemies of the Emperor, created to vanquish evil, who value dying for the Emperor instead of living to save himself, gave up all that before death and willingly summoned the most hated creatures of the Imperium.

Dark Angels being heroes? HA! That's funnier than them summoning Daemons!

That video was just really disappointing.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
For me its not so much the issue of a daemon bursting out of a space marine psyker as we all know, being psyker creates huge risks.

If this was set in stone for the fluff then it meant a Dark Angel veteran, a hero, a staunch defender of the imperium, who despises all enemies of the Emperor, created to vanquish evil, who value dying for the Emperor instead of living to save himself, gave up all that before death and willingly summoned the most hated creatures of the Imperium.

Who instead promptly turned around to slaughter all of the remaining marines and led to a daemonic invasion bonus points for any other psykers going crazy

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
For me its not so much the issue of a daemon bursting out of a space marine psyker as we all know, being psyker creates huge risks.

If this was set in stone for the fluff then it meant a Dark Angel veteran, a hero, a staunch defender of the imperium, who despises all enemies of the Emperor, created to vanquish evil, who value dying for the Emperor instead of living to save himself, gave up all that before death and willingly summoned the most hated creatures of the Imperium.

Dark Angels being heroes? HA! That's funnier than them summoning Daemons!

Maybe I should've used a better example.

Stormbreed wrote:
As long as the new rules. Grant Swarmy lord EW and wings I'm fine with all the changes.

Likewise, I'll be fine with the rules if my Templars get 60" range Str D Assault 5 guns. Anything else is a disappointment!

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I wanted to know if that would be possible.

If what would be possible?

A daemon to summon and become another daemon.

I suppose it all depends on choice.

If it's something where players can choose to attempt to sacrifice their character, then I would imagine it would just result in people simply doing it all the time in a strategic manner. It would boost the value of those characters beyond their set point values if every time they got to one wound, the player would roll to see if they turn into a daemon, possibly get lucky, and then "boom," you now have a full-wound Greater Daemon mopping up the work your character couldn't.

It's all very up in the air, so I'm not too worried either way. The information on the Unbound vs. Battle-forged is much clearer right now, so I am legitimately worried about that.

BTW, Faeit 212 reporting BA on the cover of the 7th "unbound" edition book.

So that means orks are on the cover... right?

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I wanted to know if that would be possible.

If what would be possible?

A daemon to summon and become another daemon.

I shall name my Tzeentch daemon army "The Loophole"

 Lobukia wrote:
BTW, Faeit 212 reporting BA on the cover of the 7th "unbound" edition book.

So that means orks are on the cover... right?

Wait, are you saying there will be two editions of 7th: unbound and battle-forged? Or is this just an alternative-cover thing.

 Lobukia wrote:
BTW, Faeit 212 reporting BA on the cover of the 7th "unbound" edition book.

So that means orks are on the cover... right?

Nah, it means that the real cover is Alpha Legion.

Why do people continue to report Faeit 212 rumors?

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I wanted to know if that would be possible.

If what would be possible?

A daemon to summon and become another daemon.

Rereading the article where it talks about risks for summoning Daemons it sounds like "Daemonspawn" are immune, so probably not.

 Accolade wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
BTW, Faeit 212 reporting BA on the cover of the 7th "unbound" edition book.

So that means orks are on the cover... right?

Wait, are you saying there will be two editions of 7th: unbound and battle-forged? Or is this just an alternative-cover thing.

It means that this edition will forever be known as the "Unbound" edition.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
BTW, Faeit 212 reporting BA on the cover of the 7th "unbound" edition book.

So that means orks are on the cover... right?

Nah, it means that the real cover is Alpha Legion.

Why do people continue to report Faeit 212 rumors?

Because every now and then they're right?

7th comes as a collection of pages you need to stitch together yourself.

 Squidbot wrote:
7th comes as a collection of pages you need to stitch together yourself.

I see what you did there

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Is it really a violation of the background to let 'good' psykers summon daemons?

I thought that one of the reasons the Imperium is so distrustful of psykers is the way that pretty much any one of them can serve as a gateway for daemons to enter the material world. So even if they don't do it very often for fairly obvious reasons, most psykers should have the option of summoning something when things get truly desperate.

It could also be the case that the Dark Angels get access to both types of power because they are meant to be the kind of guys who do collect forbidden lore, make dubious decisions in pursuit of their own agenda and just possibly might be corrupted by chaos. There's no reason to think that every Imperial psyker can use Malefic powers.

This.

Further, I have to say that it captures the essence of being a psyker really well and projects it onto the player; we all know you're not supposed to summon daemons because it's rather dangerous (to put it mildly), but if it could let you win the game? Can you resist the temptation?

Isn't that also how Daemonhosts are done? Purposefully summoning a daemon and binging it into some poor schmuck?