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Chad Warden wrote:
Why shouldnt Grey Knights be able to summon demons, they already use daemon weapons.

It fits the fluff

"There are those who might see contradiction between our abhorrence of the Daemon and our wielding of sorcery. Yet these contradictions live only in the minds of weak men, and we are not accountable to such as they."

from Codex:Grey Knights

.... abhorrence of the daemon... wielding of sorcery. That sorcery did not include summoning daemons though. They abhor the daemon not summon them. It's not fluffy.

Chad Warden wrote:
Why shouldnt Grey Knights be able to summon demons, they already use daemon weapons.

It fits the fluff

"There are those who might see contradiction between our abhorrence of the Daemon and our wielding of sorcery. Yet these contradictions live only in the minds of weak men, and we are not accountable to such as they."

from Codex:Grey Knights

That is totally not what that quote means.. It's talking about the lack of education and understanding that most in the Imperium have towards using the warp's energy and being in communion with Demons. It absolutely is against the fluff for the Grey Knights or pretty much any loyal Imperium force to use demons for *any* purpose. Now, there are individuals such as radical inquisitors who may want to harness the power of a demon for various means..but to *summon* a demon? Er..probably not.

I'm pretty amazed that GW could justify the Dark Angels summoning demons..or not, if neither their players nor their designers understand the universe they crafted :(

There better be a feindish dire badger

 Kirasu wrote:

Chad Warden wrote:
Why shouldnt Grey Knights be able to summon demons, they already use daemon weapons.

It fits the fluff

"There are those who might see contradiction between our abhorrence of the Daemon and our wielding of sorcery. Yet these contradictions live only in the minds of weak men, and we are not accountable to such as they."

from Codex:Grey Knights

That is totally not what that quote means.. It's talking about the lack of education and understanding that most in the Imperium have towards using the warp's energy and being in communion with Demons. It absolutely is against the fluff for the Grey Knights or pretty much any loyal Imperium force to use demons for *any* purpose. Now, there are individuals such as radical inquisitors who may want to harness the power of a demon for various means..but to *summon* a demon? Er..probably not.

I'm pretty amazed that GW could justify the Dark Angels summoning demons..or not, if neither their players nor their designers understand the universe they crafted :(

Unless Dark Angles become a secret Radical Chapter!

Like the Relictors, but not doomed to have their chapter basically purged by Grey Knights after the 13th Black Crusade.

Mostly because 1st Founding Chapters can get away with everything short of mushroom stamping the Emperor on the Golden Throne.

shade1313 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

shade1313 wrote:
I will surely TRY to resist the temptation, if one of the powers is "summon greater daemon", to try rolling it up and spam the crap out of it on my squad leaders in my Thousand Sons army.

It'd be a giggle to have that work out once or twice, but I'm sure I'd get bored of it quick, TBH.

If it is a power it's likely a high cost power and the #6 power, if WFB is anything to go off of as an example.

And they'll probably require you to roll randomly for which kind of Greater Daemon you get, because that's the asinine way they roll, and that'll completely kill my desire to even use the stupid Daemonology powers.

Or just trade that power for the Primaris?

Meh. We'll wait and see how it shakes out, and I'm fairly sure that other comments are correct, and they'll "forget" to FAQ the CSM 'dex to allow Daemonology to be used by my squad sorcerers.

The WDW clips mention the powers are available to all psykers except Tyranid ones.

--

WrentheFaceless wrote:
They use their own weapons against them, but they wouldnt knowingly summon or work with daemons. They'd kill one on the spot as soon as it was summoned.

I doubt they'll have access to these powers, at least pure GKs. Inquisition, probably.

StarTrotter wrote:.... abhorrence of the daemon... wielding of sorcery. That sorcery did not include summoning daemons though. They abhor the daemon not summon them. It's not fluffy.

Again, didnt GKs used to work alongside Daemonhosts, which are exactly that:summoned daemons bound into somr poor schlub?

 streamdragon wrote:
Again, didnt GKs used to work alongside Daemonhosts, which are exactly that:summoned daemons bound into somr poor schlub?

IIRC in 3rd they couldn't work alongside Daemonhosts, the restriction is gone now.

 streamdragon wrote:

Again, didnt GKs used to work alongside Daemonhosts, which are exactly that:summoned daemons bound into somr poor schlub?

I dont think they get a say in the henchmen their Inquisitor gets to bring along.

In the 3rd ed Demon hunters book, there was a rule forbidding GK to be in the same army as a Daemonhost.

May have been retconned in the 5th ed book though.

Besides, a daemonhost isn't the same as a summoned daemon.

A daemonhost is basically a loophole; under controlled conditions in a secure location, the inquisitor summons and binds a daemon into some poor bloke, who is then kept under constant surveillance and warding.
Technically, it's daemon summoning, but as the daemon is in a human vessel, the inquisitor can just say something like "yeah, he has a demon inside of him. But really, he's no different from a psyker, is he? Besides, if I press this button, he is forced to listen to the litany of exorcism"

Summoning a daemon on the battlefield is a different matter; the conditions aren't as stable, and as the daemon doesn't have a human vessel it's not as easily controlled.

 streamdragon wrote:
Again, didnt GKs used to work alongside Daemonhosts, which are exactly that:summoned daemons bound into somr poor schlub?

No. Codex: Daemonhunters didn't allow Grey Knights in the same army as a Daemonhost. The current codex relaxed this restriction.

 streamdragon wrote:

WrentheFaceless wrote:
They use their own weapons against them, but they wouldnt knowingly summon or work with daemons. They'd kill one on the spot as soon as it was summoned.

I doubt they'll have access to these powers, at least pure GKs. Inquisition, probably.

StarTrotter wrote:.... abhorrence of the daemon... wielding of sorcery. That sorcery did not include summoning daemons though. They abhor the daemon not summon them. It's not fluffy.

Again, didnt GKs used to work alongside Daemonhosts, which are exactly that:summoned daemons bound into somr poor schlub?

Nope. Per the Daemonhunters book:

Daemonhosts may only be chosen if an Inquisitor Lord or Inquisitor is also part of the force. If Daemonhosts are chosen the Inquisitor in charge is branded a Radical and may not include Grey Knights in his force.

I stand fully corrected then!

 streamdragon wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

shade1313 wrote:
I will surely TRY to resist the temptation, if one of the powers is "summon greater daemon", to try rolling it up and spam the crap out of it on my squad leaders in my Thousand Sons army.

It'd be a giggle to have that work out once or twice, but I'm sure I'd get bored of it quick, TBH.

If it is a power it's likely a high cost power and the #6 power, if WFB is anything to go off of as an example.

And they'll probably require you to roll randomly for which kind of Greater Daemon you get, because that's the asinine way they roll, and that'll completely kill my desire to even use the stupid Daemonology powers.

Or just trade that power for the Primaris?

Meh. We'll wait and see how it shakes out, and I'm fairly sure that other comments are correct, and they'll "forget" to FAQ the CSM 'dex to allow Daemonology to be used by my squad sorcerers.

The WDW clips mention the powers are available to all psykers except Tyranid ones.

--

WrentheFaceless wrote:
They use their own weapons against them, but they wouldnt knowingly summon or work with daemons. They'd kill one on the spot as soon as it was summoned.

I doubt they'll have access to these powers, at least pure GKs. Inquisition, probably.

StarTrotter wrote:.... abhorrence of the daemon... wielding of sorcery. That sorcery did not include summoning daemons though. They abhor the daemon not summon them. It's not fluffy.

Again, didnt GKs used to work alongside Daemonhosts, which are exactly that:summoned daemons bound into somr poor schlub?

Yeah they are "available" Just a shame that psyker can't buy anything unless hey have ML2 and above. Oh yeah... they can't

Has anyone seen a white dwarf copy by now? They usually get to stores by Wednesdays. (FLGS). I'm curious if Jes' article is the only mention of 7th in the issue...

I would like the idea of some of these new rules more if I believed they were organically generated by the writers, as opposed to externally mandated in order to just sell more models.

Tough for me to be optimistic.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Has anyone seen a white dwarf copy by now? They usually get to stores by Wednesdays. (FLGS). I'm curious if Jes' article is the only mention of 7th in the issue...

I found some more stuff, like this new poster:

But nothing else about the new edition.

So they're copy'pasting codex art on red/white backgrounds?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Holy crap, they've done it.
They've turned the game into mini apocalypse. There doesn't even seem to be a percentage system.

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I'm going with "nothing" until I either see the actual rules via leak or by having the book in my hands, which ever happens first.

That's my opinion as well. Some stuff looks interesting, others don't, but doomsaying or eternal praising don't take us anywhere!

 Vector Strike wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Holy crap, they've done it.
They've turned the game into mini apocalypse. There doesn't even seem to be a percentage system.

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I'm going with "nothing" until I either see the actual rules via leak or by having the book in my hands, which ever happens first.

That's my opinion as well. Some stuff looks interesting, others don't, but doomsaying or eternal praising don't take us anywhere!

Not to sound overly pedantic, but doomsaying/eternal praising, especially if you start ASAP and without any substantial facts, DOES help jack up your post-count. So, that's one place it takes us...

Look, the whole DA summoning daemons thing actually makes sense.

DA is arguably the absolute weakest link in the 6e codexes as even 5e codexes regularly rip it apart. At Adepticon, out of 226 armies, they were primary in 3 and allied in 3. That's not exactly a good showing. DE, by comparison, was primary in 5 and allied 16 times. I wonder if more DE codexes are sold today than DA ones. Now THAT would be funny and a very very good reason to throw the current box set out the window.

So, of course the rules team is going to throw something in there to try and help the boys in green out and what could be more fun than allowing them to transform into a much better army: Daemons!

Fluff? What could that possibly matter. This is the "game" part and anyways there isn't anything like "canon" to hold them back;codexes rewrite history, BL novels rewrite it (or just flat out butcher it), when new models are released they are helpfully written into the past as if they've always been there. So anything goes!

On one hand, I'm dreading the arrival of spam heavy lists.
Like, a bunch of riptides and a single squad of warriors, or an army full of monsterous creatures.

On the other hand, I'm curious what these bonuses are that are supposed to accompany "battle-forged" lists. They might provide some tactical depth.
Also, does that mean that there will be multiple FoC variations?
Like, a HS heavy FoC list provides bonuses to fire power, troop heavy FoC provides objective taking bonuses, ect ect.

Does anybody think that is going to be the new official Warhammer 40,000 eagle?

GW does excel at trolling their fanbase. Chapeau gents!

 Sir Arun wrote:
Does anybody think that is going to be the new official Warhammer 40,000 eagle?

What new eagle? I don't see any new eagle.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Does anybody think that is going to be the new official Warhammer 40,000 eagle?

What new eagle? I don't see any new eagle.

aquila, you smartass

It could be bearing the Warhammer 40,000 brand name on the new rulebook

 tomjoad wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Holy crap, they've done it.
They've turned the game into mini apocalypse. There doesn't even seem to be a percentage system.

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I'm going with "nothing" until I either see the actual rules via leak or by having the book in my hands, which ever happens first.

That's my opinion as well. Some stuff looks interesting, others don't, but doomsaying or eternal praising don't take us anywhere!

Not to sound overly pedantic, but doomsaying/eternal praising, especially if you start ASAP and without any substantial facts, DOES help jack up your post-count. So, that's one place it takes us...

Darn it you caught our plans! We are actually grinding our posts to level up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

clively wrote:
Look, the whole DA summoning daemons thing actually makes sense.

DA is arguably the absolute weakest link in the 6e codexes as even 5e codexes regularly rip it apart. At Adepticon, out of 226 armies, they were primary in 3 and allied in 3. That's not exactly a good showing. DE, by comparison, was primary in 5 and allied 16 times. I wonder if more DE codexes are sold today than DA ones. Now THAT would be funny and a very very good reason to throw the current box set out the window.

So, of course the rules team is going to throw something in there to try and help the boys in green out and what could be more fun than allowing them to transform into a much better army: Daemons!

Fluff? What could that possibly matter. This is the "game" part and anyways there isn't anything like "canon" to hold them back;codexes rewrite history, BL novels rewrite it (or just flat out butcher it), when new models are released they are helpfully written into the past as if they've always been there. So anything goes!

This implies GW giving two flips about balance or actually admitting tournaments exist. No, DA will probably just have to rot with CSM and Nids until the next cycle of books. That or something really big changes it in 7th edition.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Does anybody think that is going to be the new official Warhammer 40,000 eagle?

What new eagle? I don't see any new eagle.

aquila, you smartass

It could be bearing the Warhammer 40,000 brand name on the new rulebook

I know you are talking about the aquila.
I do not see any new aquila / eagle anywhere.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Does anybody think that is going to be the new official Warhammer 40,000 eagle?

What new eagle? I don't see any new eagle.

aquila, you smartass

It could be bearing the Warhammer 40,000 brand name on the new rulebook

I know you are talking about the aquila.
I do not see any new aquila / eagle anywhere.

this eagle logo....

Just looks like the normal eagle to me.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Just looks like the normal eagle to me.

THAT EAGLE MAKES ME ANGRY.

ALSO, I WANT TO SALUTE IT UNTIL MY ARM FALLS OFF.

But yeah, it looks like a regular slightly modified eagle to me.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Just looks like the normal eagle to me.

Really? Here is current one