40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**WrentheFaceless**

unmercifulconker wrote:
Haha these posts about defending the price of a product.

GW could make the rulebook cost £300 and you could say it is still acceptable because it costs less than a holiday.

They can charge what they want as long as people buy it. Not sure how this surprises people. Not that its a good thing, but it is what it is

**PipeAlley**

techsoldaten wrote:
Here's a prediction:

When a Space Marine Librarian summons a Daemon, it is going to get ATSKNF, POTMS, Chapter Tactics, immunity from daemonic instability, no need to roll on the warp storm table, probably pick up some artefacts on the way out the warp, be able to ride in transports, be able to assault from summoning, have skyfire and up to 4 mastery levels, allow the user to choose psychic powers, be able to overwatch on nearby units, and get rage, counterattack, shrouded, invulnerable save buffs, etc, depending on allegiance.

When a Chaos Sorcerer summons a Daemon, it is going to get fear and soulblaze and cost 10 points less than the loyalist version.

And if an Ork summons it it'll be 25 points more, forced to assault the closest model, and have a 6+ armor save.

**greyknight12**

infinite_array wrote:
It says "in a desperate alliance." Unless White Dwarf has suddenly gotten clever in giving hints - and I don't think it has - I'd wager that's just poor word choice rather than an indication of new ally status.

It also says that led to many "sideways glances and shifty maneuvers"...which sounds alot like the "one eye open" special rule for desperate allies.

**unmercifulconker**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
unmercifulconker wrote:
Haha these posts about defending the price of a product.

GW could make the rulebook cost £300 and you could say it is still acceptable because it costs less than a holiday.

They can charge what they want as long as people buy it. Not sure how this surprises people. Not that its a good thing, but it is what it is

Yep and defending higher prices only justifies increasing them further.

**tetrisphreak**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Looking at it again, the Hive Tyrant was worth a possible FOUR Victory points? I wonder if that's in addition to the old secondary objectives (Slay the Warlord).

Pancake had units worth 1 VP for every 40, 50, or 70 points they costed (roll a D3 pre-game). Hive tyrants being anywhere from 165-280 points it could be a thing now (or a simplified version of it).

**unmercifulconker**

Glad to see they will make Tau desperate allies. The mear thought of battle brothers...heeuuuu, shivers the spine.

**tetrisphreak**

It does make more sense for them to be desperate allies with marines, honestly.

**Leth**

infinite_array wrote:
Leth wrote:
I mean one rulebook is less than two tanks of gas.

And the rulebook is infinitely more expensive than a breath of air.

How about you compare the worth of the 40k rulebook to other wargaming/rpg rulebooks instead?

I was comparing it to what I would have to give up potentially to get it. If money was so tight that 100bucks made the difference between being able to play warhammer or not, I would take the bus for a month. But then I wouldnt be playing warhammer so its a moot point.

I cant compare it to other wargaming books personally because I have no interest in playing other games. So it is a matter of if it is worth continuing to play warhammer or not for me personally.

I have tried and invested in other games and it just ends up being a waste of money with minis that I then have to sell off getting next to no enjoyment out of.

Great job of ignoring everything else I said though

**krazynadechukr**

Just heard the new rule book is actually $80! Hope that is true. I'm calling my buddy (txting) in London to check on that...

**tetrisphreak**

High, but acceptable. Let us know what you find out.

**kronk**

$80 is dinner + a few drinks with the little lady, plain and simple. It's entertainment money and comes out of the entertainment budget.

Is it high for a book? Yes. Will I spend it? Yes.

**ClockworkZion**

tetrisphreak wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Looking at it again, the Hive Tyrant was worth a possible FOUR Victory points? I wonder if that's in addition to the old secondary objectives (Slay the Warlord).

Pancake had units worth 1 VP for every 40, 50, or 70 points they costed (roll a D3 pre-game). Hive tyrants being anywhere from 165-280 points it could be a thing now (or a simplified version of it).

Pancake was apparently not from the studio (someone was saying earlier that it was house rules that had made their way online?).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kronk wrote:
$80 is dinner + a few drinks with the little lady, plain and simple. It's entertainment money and comes out of the entertainment budget.

Is it high for a book? Yes. Will I spend it? Yes.

It's also only $5 USD over the current one. If this thing is even thicker (and if it rolls in the Escalation and Stronghold core rules it will be) that's fine by me.

**tetrisphreak**

ClockworkZion wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Looking at it again, the Hive Tyrant was worth a possible FOUR Victory points? I wonder if that's in addition to the old secondary objectives (Slay the Warlord).

Pancake had units worth 1 VP for every 40, 50, or 70 points they costed (roll a D3 pre-game). Hive tyrants being anywhere from 165-280 points it could be a thing now (or a simplified version of it).

Pancake was apparently not from the studio (someone was saying earlier that it was house rules that had made their way online?).

Either way it had some GREAT game mechanics so seeing analogs in 7th is a positive in my eyes.

**WrentheFaceless**

ClockworkZion wrote:

It's also only $5 USD over the current one. If this thing is even thicker (and if it rolls in the Escalation and Stronghold core rules it will be) that's fine by me.

If its all those books rolled into one for a $85 price tag, then it will truly be a Grimdark Battle Bible.

**PipeAlley**

Leth wrote:
Accolade wrote:
Leth wrote:
Well back to the rumored price point. 25% more. Well do we know if we are getting more? I liked the 6th edition book way more than the fifth, fourth, and third edition books.

I heard that it was multiple separate books. Well that sounds like added value to me. Leave the fluff books at home and just take the rules with you. Well now I don't need the little rulebook.

For every pessimistic scenario you create and fill in the gaps of unknowns it is equally as easy to fill in the gaps with neutral or positive information.

It doesn't matter if the new edition has a gold flake cover, the point is still the same- the cost barrier of entry continues to rise at a significant rate.

There is no pessimism or optimism on the lifespan of the 6th edition, it has lasted literally half the time of any previous edition. Compounded with the higher cost of the 7th (no matter what awesomeness it could possibly be), and I don't think there is any way to say this is....er, great news.

EDIT: the $99 pricepoint was a rumor somewhere, that's what I'm going off of. If it doesn't end up being $100, then great. However it has still only been 2 years.

It may have lasted half the time sure, it may have been more expensive? Sure. Just because you are not getting as much value, does not mean that it was not worth it. Do I wish I had gotten more time out of 6th? Possibly, it depends. I didnt like 5th it was not fun for me. I am enjoying 6th WAY more than I did 5th. Now, 6th has its issues and if by them releasing 7th in a shorter time frame and I enjoy it WAY more than 6th I am failing to see how that is less value for me? While money is finite, my time is even more finite, if I have to spend a little extra to get more enjoyment out of something I have no problem doing so. This is not a cheap hobby to buy new, but there are plenty of ways to keep your costs down.

Also Micro-econ 101. If something is worth more in returns than you are spending on it, makes sense to buy it. If it isnt, then you dont. GW made no promises about how long an edition would last. Now if they changed it every week then the returns would not equal the investments and people would stop buying. But I have no problems with a 2 year cycle. I get more out of my rulebook per dollar every year than I do almost anything else I buy. I mean one rulebook is less than two tanks of gas.

I played over 2000 hours of Halo 2 (on line and off line combined). Best $50 bucks I ever spent!

I also bought a scanner in the early 90's that could pick cordless house phones (the old kind not any of the newer ghz ones) for $50 which was a lot of money back then at $5/hour. Second best $50 I ever spent. So many hilarious conversations overheard (100% legal BTW) and a few really sad ones.

**ClockworkZion**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:

It's also only $5 USD over the current one. If this thing is even thicker (and if it rolls in the Escalation and Stronghold core rules it will be) that's fine by me.

If its all those books rolled into one for a $85 price tag, then it will truly be a Grimdark Battle Bible.

As long as the screaming voices of the damned don't keep me up at night from within it then that sounds like a good deal to me!

**Squidbot**

6th is already a hell of a tome. This thing will break tables.

**krazynadechukr**

Okay, he (contact in London, & btw, paints minis for GW & is a GD winner several times), says the book is 47 GBP, and is under the 500 page count now... "Looks streamlined now compared to what I saw months ago..." he said...

**PipeAlley**

kronk wrote:
$80 is dinner + a few drinks with the little lady, plain and simple. It's entertainment money and comes out of the entertainment budget.

Is it high for a book? Yes. Will I spend it? Yes.

Yep but in my case I'm not going to volunteer how much any of this stuff costs to my wife

**ClockworkZion**

krazynadechukr wrote:
Okay, he (contact in London, & btw, paints minis for GW & is a GD winner several times), says the book is 47 GBP, and is under the 500 page count now... "Looks streamlined now compared to what I saw months ago..." he said...

That'd be about $80 USD in a straight conversion.

**undertow**

kronk wrote:
$80 is dinner + a few drinks with the little lady, plain and simple. It's entertainment money and comes out of the entertainment budget.

Is it high for a book? Yes. Will I spend it? Yes.

This, but it depends on income levels. At my age (late 30s) my income is such that I'll spend $100+ on a night out with my wife a couple times a month. 15 years ago, having just gotten out of the military and working full time at a crappy job while attending college, I debated if I had enough money to eat lunch some days, $100 would have been a deal breaker.

For me, right now $100 every couple years is no big deal but I realize that not everyone can say that.

**Sir Arun**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Looking at it again, the Hive Tyrant was worth a possible FOUR Victory points? I wonder if that's in addition to the old secondary objectives (Slay the Warlord).

So not only did the Tyranids get frakked over with the latest codex, but now their only crutch - MCs - award crazy VPs to their enemies.

And with Grav Weapons already making MCs pretty pointless, it only adds insult to the injury.

**WrentheFaceless**

How many pages is the 6th hardcover currently? I only have the Dark Vengance mini-book

**ClockworkZion**

Sir Arun wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Looking at it again, the Hive Tyrant was worth a possible FOUR Victory points? I wonder if that's in addition to the old secondary objectives (Slay the Warlord).

So not only did the Tyranids get frakked over with the latest codex, but now their only crutch - MCs - award crazy VPs to their enemies.

And with Grav Weapons already making MCs pretty pointless, it only adds insult to the injury.

It could also be a new cost for Slay the Warlord or a combination of Slay the Warlord plus secondary objectives that made that possible though. Let's not assume GW is giving the Nids a punt to the groin just yet.

**rigeld2**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
How many pages is the 6th hardcover currently? I only have the Dark Vengance mini-book

400ish.

**streamdragon**

Sir Arun wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Looking at it again, the Hive Tyrant was worth a possible FOUR Victory points? I wonder if that's in addition to the old secondary objectives (Slay the Warlord).

So not only did the Tyranids get frakked over with the latest codex, but now their only crutch - MCs - award crazy VPs to their enemies.

And with Grav Weapons already making MCs pretty pointless, it only adds insult to the injury.

On the flip side, other armies' units will most likely also award more VP. It looks like the days of "1KP per unit (regardless of size)" may be gone, which I think we can all agree is a good thing.

**krazynadechukr**

496 pages. That is the new page count. Or so I'm told.

**techsoldaten**

PipeAlley wrote:
techsoldaten wrote:
Here's a prediction:

When a Space Marine Librarian summons a Daemon, it is going to get ATSKNF, POTMS, Chapter Tactics, immunity from daemonic instability, no need to roll on the warp storm table, probably pick up some artefacts on the way out the warp, be able to ride in transports, be able to assault from summoning, have skyfire and up to 4 mastery levels, allow the user to choose psychic powers, be able to overwatch on nearby units, and get rage, counterattack, shrouded, invulnerable save buffs, etc, depending on allegiance.

When a Chaos Sorcerer summons a Daemon, it is going to get fear and soulblaze and cost 10 points less than the loyalist version.

And if an Ork summons it it'll be 25 points more, forced to assault the closest model, and have a 6+ armor save.

You forgot BS 0 and the Ork equivalent to a rail gun.

**unmercifulconker**

£47 for more pages seems fine and dandy to me.

**Azreal13**

krazynadechukr wrote:
496 pages. That is the new page count. Or so I'm told.

Is that told to you by the same guy who has spectacularly failed to provide you with a single accurate piece of information about anything unless it is after an official announcement?