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2014/05/13 01:49:14
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
bodazoka wrote: I am really liking these changes, I also applaud GW for listening to the player base and making some of the obvious changes that people have been wanting.
Not sure what those changes which we wanted and have been given are. Care to explain?
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2014/05/13 01:53:04
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
H.B.M.C. wrote: Again the point sails blissfully over your head Kan.
If you want me to address your "point", here you go:
Do you really think that actually having to talk to your opponent before playing a game is a bad thing? How many people do you think play without ever talking to their opponent before they meet for a game?
I talk to my opponent.
Not just at the start of the game either, it has been known, on the odd occasion, for me to talk to my opponent for the whole battle!!!1!
I have no issue with this.
Issues may start to arise, not all the time, but sometimes, when I have to agree with my opponent about the appropriate way to play the game. When you have two opposing, but equally valid, viewpoints, both supported by the rules, and two players who may only have one chance to play a game once in a while, why is it fair that one or the other should compromise their enjoyment for the other person's?
That's actually a good point Azrael.
Personally? I think if it gets to that point, setting up a rotation of "This game we do it the way I want to do it, then next game we do it the way you want to" would not be out of the question.
I make the occasional one.
It could be out of the question if it is a pick up game. Friendly games amongst social groups aren't nearly as plagued by the issues affecting the game as trying to organise a match between relative strangers.
I personally don't suffer that badly with a lot of the issues I may be seen arguing against on here, because I'm lucky to have a fairly genial group who aren't looking to overcompensate for things by repeated curb stomps. It doesn't mean I'm blind to the potential for it all to go to hell, mind.
To try and mitigate this, I've floated the idea of a "Club Charter" to a largely positive response, where we will thrash out a 'standard' format for club games, not a banning of anything, merely a "if you haven't pre-arranged something different, or if it is a league or other semi-competitive match, these are the dos and don'ts" sort of thing.
That'll work for us, as a large group, but for a more transient population as may be encountered in a FLGS, it quite probably won't.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
So if you have a Herald of Tzeetch w/ Portaglyph and a Model that has the Sacrifice ability you could possibly have more than one portal out at a time.
1st model w/ Portaglyph uses it in his Movement phase
Psychic Phase
2 Psykers w/ Sacrifice Cast Sacrifice on the the Model that has the Portaglyph. He dies
2nd Summoned Herald comes in with Portaglyph. During the 2nd Turn Casts Portaglyph
2nd Psychic phase Repeat. You're trading two Heralds for 1.
Here is the thing you need to remember about this. You can now disspels spells like in fantsey. It's not like you have no defense agiest this. Roll your disspell die agiest the power so it dosen't go off.
What 40k needs now is a geneic armoury heros can buy "archeotech" wargear. With a 40k equvlient to a dispsell scroll and something you can buy on HQ's to generate more disspell dice for non-pyscher armies.
Sadly they probley won't do that untill 8th ed 40k next year the way they are going.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/05/13 02:08:28
2014/05/13 02:05:19
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
bodazoka wrote: I am really liking these changes, I also applaud GW for listening to the player base and making some of the obvious changes that people have been wanting.
Err, what? What changes would those be? Because so far all of the confirmed changes are terrible ones.
Possible change to battle brothers that people wanted
Possible change to allow people to more easily deny phsysic powers (or at least give them the option for non witchfire)
That sort of stuff which is something people have been wanting.
And as far as "all of the confirmed changes are terrible ones" <--- purely your opinion, which you are of course entitled to but still opinion (with limited facts) of course we can only work with what we have so I also understand your opinion has to be based on what you can see now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/13 02:06:11
2014/05/13 02:09:38
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
Captain Killhammer McFighterson stared down at the surface of Earth from his high vantage point on the bridge of Starship Facemelter. Something ominous was looming on the surface. He could see a great shadow looming just underneath the waters of the Gulf of Mexico, slowly spreading northward. "That can't be good..." he muttered to himself while rubbing the super manly stubble on his chin with one hand. "But... on the other hand..." he looked at his shiny new bionic murder-arm. "This could be the perfect chance for that promotion." A perfect roundhouse kick slammed the ship's throttle into full gear. Soon orange jets of superheated plasma were visible from the space-windshield as Facemelter reentered the atmosphere at breakneck speed.
2014/05/13 02:17:07
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
Looking at this screencap from /tg/:
I noticed something, it looks like there are different levels of command benefits that give different bonuses to armies based on what they're composed of.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/13 02:17:36
2014/05/13 02:17:58
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
"If this detachment is chosen as your primary detachment.."
Not something you can do currently is it?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
ClockworkZion wrote: Looking at this screencap from /tg/:
I noticed something, it looks like there are different levels of command benefits that give different bonuses to armies based on what they're composed of.
Or you get both of those benefits maybe?
2014/05/13 02:22:17
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
A few of us theorized earlier that there will be more types of detachments with different command benefits and FOC requirements than just the standard "combined arms" one we're familiar with now.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2014/05/13 02:22:21
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
ClockworkZion wrote: Looking at this screencap from /tg/:
I noticed something, it looks like there are different levels of command benefits that give different bonuses to armies based on what they're composed of.
I think you are reading too much into it.
As you may recall this is a two column page. The left column is from the primary detachment and the right column is for the allied detachment.
Secured Objective reads identically.
The Primary detachment gets the ideal commander benefit but the allied detachments does not (obviously) since you cannot have a warlord in your allied detachment.
I see no instances of a "level" at all.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/13 02:24:59
Captain Killhammer McFighterson stared down at the surface of Earth from his high vantage point on the bridge of Starship Facemelter. Something ominous was looming on the surface. He could see a great shadow looming just underneath the waters of the Gulf of Mexico, slowly spreading northward. "That can't be good..." he muttered to himself while rubbing the super manly stubble on his chin with one hand. "But... on the other hand..." he looked at his shiny new bionic murder-arm. "This could be the perfect chance for that promotion." A perfect roundhouse kick slammed the ship's throttle into full gear. Soon orange jets of superheated plasma were visible from the space-windshield as Facemelter reentered the atmosphere at breakneck speed.
2014/05/13 02:23:50
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
azreal13 wrote: "If this detachment is chosen as your primary detachment.."
Not something you can do currently is it?
Well, you can take primary detachment which isn't a 'combined arms' one at the moment (Inquisition and Imperial Knights), but I don't think you can take a special primary detachment and a 'combined arms' one as well.
ClockworkZion wrote: Looking at this screencap from /tg/:
I noticed something, it looks like there are different levels of command benefits that give different bonuses to armies based on what they're composed of.
I think you are reading too much into it.
Secured Objective reads identically.
The Primary detachment gets the ideal commander benefit but the allied detachments does not (obviously) since you cannot have a warlord in your allied detachment.
I see no instances of a "level" at all.
I do see something potentially: "same faction" and "different faction". With rumors regarding allies changing it possible they're being divided more into "factions" and that effects the bonuses.
2014/05/13 02:36:13
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
Lansirill wrote: So no unbound vs battle forged it looks like. Missed that on my first skim through the screen caps. That makes objective secured a little redundant unless they're changing the scoring system after all. That could be nice actually. Troops are great at scoring, but you can choose to mostly ignore them and use other units to score... I'd take it out on a second date.
You did miss it. Read the top line of the screen cap that details unbound armies. Specifically the bold section. "Both players need not use the same method."
2014/05/13 02:43:10
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
ClockworkZion wrote: I do see something potentially: "same faction" and "different faction". With rumors regarding allies changing it possible they're being divided more into "factions" and that effects the bonuses.
I think 'faction' is just the new terminology for 'army list'.
In the dataslates, there is a section which says:
Each datasheet will list the Faction it is part of. The Faction determines which codex the datasheet is considered part of for all rules purposes. For example, a datasheet for a new Space Marine Army List Entry can be used in any detachment chosen from Codex: Space Marines, while a datasheet for a new Ork Formation would be treated as a detachment from Codex: Orks, and so on.
Since Tau, Deldar, and Necrons don't get access(themselves anyway) to Daemonology, could it be possible that Daemons don't get access either? I know it flat out says Tyranids can't(surprise!), but could it not also be possible chaos daemons don't as well? It would shut off the super summoning ritual. It would also mean they would have to rely on Chaos Space Marine allies to boost their saves if they rolled that power.
ClockworkZion wrote: I do see something potentially: "same faction" and "different faction". With rumors regarding allies changing it possible they're being divided more into "factions" and that effects the bonuses.
I think 'faction' is just the new terminology for 'army list'.
In the dataslates, there is a section which says:
Each datasheet will list the Faction it is part of. The Faction determines which codex the datasheet is considered part of for all rules purposes. For example, a datasheet for a new Space Marine Army List Entry can be used in any detachment chosen from Codex: Space Marines, while a datasheet for a new Ork Formation would be treated as a detachment from Codex: Orks, and so on.
Then how do "no Faction" armies work?
2014/05/13 02:51:00
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
ClockworkZion wrote: I do see something potentially: "same faction" and "different faction". With rumors regarding allies changing it possible they're being divided more into "factions" and that effects the bonuses.
I think 'faction' is just the new terminology for 'army list'.
In the dataslates, there is a section which says:
Each datasheet will list the Faction it is part of. The Faction determines which codex the datasheet is considered part of for all rules purposes. For example, a datasheet for a new Space Marine Army List Entry can be used in any detachment chosen from Codex: Space Marines, while a datasheet for a new Ork Formation would be treated as a detachment from Codex: Orks, and so on.
Then how do "no Faction" armies work?
"No faction" can refer to things like fortifications.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2014/05/13 02:51:57
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
Saw this on The Tyranid Hive.Thanks Nameless Didn't see this posted so sorry if I missed it.
This is the newest dump:
I spoke with my FLGS guy who talked to the GW rep this morning. Not all of my questions were answered, but here is what I heard that is not something already all over the internet. This assumes the GW rep had his facts straight, and the FLGS guy relayed them correctly via the game of telephone.
Battle Brothers
Eldar/DE Chaos/Daemons All Imperium
All others were convenience, desperate or apocalypse.
No answer as to whether you can join units of battle brothers.
Psychic Phase
Roll a D6 and add the total mastery levels of all your psykers. You get that many power dice and your opponent gets that many DTW dice.
To cast a power, you need to roll a 4+ for every warp charge of the power you're using. So warp charge 2 = two 4+, meaning you'd need 4 power dice to have an average shot.
Your opponent dispels the power with a roll of a 6 on their dice. So the more dice they have, the more shots they get at rolling that 6 to cancel out that critical power. I was told that the mastery level of the psyker dispelling the power lowers the roll needed to dispel it. So a ML2 psyker dispels on a 5+, ML3 on a 4+. etc...
That is what I was told.
That seems wrong to me because Fateweaver, Eldrad and Ahriman could dispel anything on a 3+. More likely, I would think you compare mastery levels between the casting psyker and the dispelling psyker, and apply a bonus that way. This is conjecture. What I wrote above is what I was told.
What I also don't know is if there is a dice limit a psyker can use to cast or dispel a power based on their mastery level. I also don't know if you need two 6's to dispel a ML2 power. I assume you do.
You would figure Adamantium Will would give you +1 to DTW for powers cast at a unit with that rule.
Jink Save
Jink is a 4+, however it is no longer always on. You must declare a jink to claim it, and if you do so, it's snapshots only in the next phase.
Sweeping Advance
Unchanged. You do not consolidate into a new combat.
And that's all I got that's new! So you can go runtelldat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/13 02:59:01
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
2014/05/13 03:03:34
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
Sinful Hero wrote: Since Tau, Deldar, and Necrons don't get access(themselves anyway) to Daemonology, could it be possible that Daemons don't get access either? I know it flat out says Tyranids can't(surprise!), but could it not also be possible chaos daemons don't as well? It would shut off the super summoning ritual. It would also mean they would have to rely on Chaos Space Marine allies to boost their saves if they rolled that power.
I will be astonished if Chaos Daemons don't have Malefic Daemonology. White Dwarf said that all armies except Tyranids will have access to Daemonology in some form. I don't see them getting Santic Daemonology.
I'm pretty sure that heralds being able to summon heralds who can later summon other heralds is totally intended. It's just not going to be as 'broken' as people think, because it can only grow so much per turn and you have to dedicate significant resources to get much out of it. We can't tell exactly how good it will be, but I very much doubt that it will be enough to overwhelm a build dedicated to killing the enemy.
What it will offer is another option, making psykers even more flexible.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Again the point sails blissfully over your head Kan.
If you want me to address your "point", here you go:
Do you really think that actually having to talk to your opponent before playing a game is a bad thing? How many people do you think play without ever talking to their opponent before they meet for a game?
Yes it is a bad thing. First, it means that the rules are so poorly written that the players have to intervene to make them workable. Second, it completely ruins the idea of going to your LGS for a pick up game.
Why have point levels and point costs if they *don't* mean that equal points is equal power?
2014/05/13 03:13:33
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
Kanluwen wrote: There is no guarantee that every single army is going to be able to summon up Daemons. Remember that there is two sides to Daemonology, the Sanctic side and the Malefic side.
So far we have only seen the Malefic side.
Remember the WD quote that says "all psykers get it"?
Remember the WD that said everyone gets Knights?
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2014/05/13 03:18:30
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, updated 5/12
Will be interesting to see all the details we are missing - which is a lot.
We have no idea how some of the powers will be generated, or how will they will be cast in an actual game - we have a lot of speculation based upon snippets..but not much else.
For example. we don't know how many powers an army gets..it might not even be remotely related to how many psykers you get. Or it might be.
We don't know if you use the same "pool" of dice for both your casting AND your deny powers (i.e. use 4 dice to cast on spell, and 2 to deny...etc.).
We have no idea how perils works - is it a leadership check BEFORE you cast? Is it part of the dice you are rolling to get the power off?
Are tau/necrons/nids hosed? Are eldar and demons about to be 100x better? We have no idea yet.
Only a few more weeks....and we will know.
DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
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