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2014/05/14 23:25:38
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
azreal13 wrote: IMO, a lot of the driving force behind pre-orders, with a definite emphasis in this hobby, is all down to worshipping at the church of "First"
Ye Olde Zeitgeist. I have many a video game because of it. I have now subscribed to the "CAG" way save for a few titles I know I will pop in day one to enjoy. I'm changing my ways and my habits to be less prone to them. Not perfect in the least, but understanding and seeing it, even while falling prey to it, is a start.
I doubt 7E will be a panacea for Dread fans, unless it's Dreadknights. He lowly walker hasn't been good... Ever? From my limited understanding of the span of previous editions, they've always fallen short of their fluff brethren.
They worked quite well in fifth, I believe. Most vehicles did.
The riflemen dreads did, but that's primarily in the GK realm when they were "shrouded" by the librarian and had the psychic power to shake stunned/shaken. Since you had to reroll the damage results on Venerables, stopping them was much harder. Furioso dreads were also good.
But the general idea that normal pattern were still tepid.
Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
2014/05/14 23:31:08
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
Basically better across the board for less points. And don't forget better against ground targets.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
2014/05/14 23:31:19
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
It's also the fact that ranged dreadnoughts are at least "servicable" compared to their CQC kin. Psyfleman dreads have strength 8 autocannons. You basically just sit them in one spot on the map like a gunline and blast away at the enemy. Double-autocannon dreads fulfill a similar niche. 120 points is cheap for an av 12 gun platform.
It's the "traditional" Dreadnought, the guy who stomps around the battlefield mashing squads to death with its CCW, that is universally considered nonviable.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/14 23:38:30
2014/05/14 23:34:22
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
I'm mostly digging the changes, but there is still lots left unresolved that worries me.
-The leaked pages talk a lot about daemonology, but makes no mention of re-working the existing disciplines. So Divination combined with the (rumored) improved snapshots can make things...silly.
Don't be surprised that WDW is talking about the new shiny, they repeatedly refer to large numbers of subtle changes too.
-So far, the magic phase tells us there is no distinction between a top-level pysker and a cheapo one except the nmber of charges they bring. Got Ahriman with Ld 10 and ML 4 but rolled a 1? Too bad, my Ld 8 Warlock rolled a 6, so i have two more warp charges tan you for 1/5th of the cost,and they cast spells the same!
Superior Psykers may well give buffs to DTW, there's a reasonable chance that they may be harder to Deny with lower level ones too, I'd speculate.
-Wounds spilling from won challenges is a good thing, but I really wish we knew more about further CC changes, if any,
I don't think it is wounds per sé, but more counting towards resolution, so of you inflict 4 wounds on a Sgt with your BThirster, then that counts as 4 for winning combat, even though only one is inflicted, as opposed to now, where you could inflict 100 and still have it count as one.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
-So far, the magic phase tells us there is no distinction between a top-level pysker and a cheapo one except the nmber of charges they bring. Got Ahriman with Ld 10 and ML 4 but rolled a 1? Too bad, my Ld 8 Warlock rolled a 6, so i have two more warp charges tan you for 1/5th of the cost,and they cast spells the same!
Thats just an anecdote, thats like saying my tac marine saved a heavy bolter shot with power armor and lived but my termantor failed and died and the tac marine was much cheaper! You're paying for a better psyker that preforms better over all statistically.
2014/05/15 00:10:20
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
-So far, the magic phase tells us there is no distinction between a top-level pysker and a cheapo one except the nmber of charges they bring. Got Ahriman with Ld 10 and ML 4 but rolled a 1? Too bad, my Ld 8 Warlock rolled a 6, so i have two more warp charges tan you for 1/5th of the cost,and they cast spells the same!
Thats just an anecdote, thats like saying my tac marine saved a heavy bolter shot with power armor and lived but my termantor failed and died and the tac marine was much cheaper! You're paying for a better psyker that preforms better over all statistically.
Not at all. As it is, a Ld10 psyker is objectively better than a Ld 8 one, as it has a greater mathematical chance of casting powers.
Likewise, the Warp charge extra dice adds variation that waters down the Mastery levels you bring. You can spend both your HQ slots bringing ML 2 librarians, and yet spend the whole game with less warp charges than the guy who brought a single ML1 primaris, because of one dice roll at the start of the game.
I'm not saying this is terribly or that the sky is falling. Just that there's still big gaps in what we know and those can lead to some weird consequences if left as is.
In Boxing matches, you actually get paid to take a dive and make the other guy look good.
In Warhammer 40K, you're expected to pay cash out of your pocket for the privilege of having Marines and IG trample all over your Xenos/Chaos.
2014/05/15 00:24:19
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Psychic tests are no longer leadership tests. You generate your total pool, allocate dice to cast and then roll them. 4+ succeeds. X number of successes are needed to cast the power. 3 successes, for most.
Certain things can give you a 3+ on the dice, like having an affinity with the discipline. 2 or more 6s you peril. So you can still fail to cast and perils but typically if you got 2 6s you should have passed.
To stop a power, allocate your warp charge dice and roll deny the witch. 6+ to succeed. 5+ if you have a psyker. +1 if they have a hood. +1 if you're a higher mastery level and nearby the unit being affected. Even powers that do not effect you can be stopped, like blessings.
GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants"
2014/05/15 00:30:44
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Psychic tests are no longer leadership tests. You generate your total pool, allocate dice to cast and then roll them. 4+ succeeds. X number of successes are needed to cast the power. 3 successes, for most.
Certain things can give you a 3+ on the dice, like having an affinity with the discipline. 2 or more 6s you peril. So you can still fail to cast and perils but typically if you got 2 6s you should have passed.
To stop a power, allocate your warp charge dice and roll deny the witch. 6+ to succeed. 5+ if you have a psyker. +1 if they have a hood. +1 if you're a higher mastery level and nearby the unit being affected. Even powers that do not effect you can be stopped, like blessings.
I posted this as a question because I think it's the final piece of understanding the puzzle:
"So what I'm curious about is how many deny the witch rolls are necessary to block a power - if I roll 2 successful warp charges on a WC1 power, does my opponent need 1 DTW or 2 to prevent it from succeeding?"
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/05/15 00:33:46
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
I can't remember if I read in one of the rumors or the leaked white dwarf, but I remember reading from somewhere that you generate your random warp charges every turn not just once at the start of the game.
Everything I say, barring quotes and researched information, is my personal opinion. Not fact.
"Being into 40k but not the background is like being into porn but not masturbation..." - Kain
"I barely believe my dice are not sentient and conspiring against me." - knas ser
2014/05/15 00:39:24
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
Jaceevoke wrote: I can't remember if I read in one of the rumors or the leaked white dwarf, but I remember reading from somewhere that you generate your random warp charges every turn not just once at the start of the game.
I'm puzzled as to where you've read otherwise?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Psychic tests are no longer leadership tests. You generate your total pool, allocate dice to cast and then roll them. 4+ succeeds. X number of successes are needed to cast the power. 3 successes, for most.
Certain things can give you a 3+ on the dice, like having an affinity with the discipline. 2 or more 6s you peril. So you can still fail to cast and perils but typically if you got 2 6s you should have passed.
To stop a power, allocate your warp charge dice and roll deny the witch. 6+ to succeed. 5+ if you have a psyker. +1 if they have a hood. +1 if you're a higher mastery level and nearby the unit being affected. Even powers that do not effect you can be stopped, like blessings.
Ugh. Really not liking this.
Most psykers will be finding it very difficult to cast powers - you're going to want 3 or 4 warp charges to even cast a ML1 power. A ML3 power will want ~8 dice.
Armies that rely on psykers - especially Tzeentch Daemons & Eldar - may be hit quite hard, by what I'm seeing.
2014/05/15 00:45:11
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
Yeah, cause Tzeentch Daemons and Eldar were really in need of a buff...
Won't get much sympathy from me over that.
Now we just need an errata making the Serpent Shield 6" range and I'll be content!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
azreal13 wrote: IMO, a lot of the driving force behind pre-orders, with a definite emphasis in this hobby, is all down to worshipping at the church of "First"
Ye Olde Zeitgeist. I have many a video game because of it. I have now subscribed to the "CAG" way save for a few titles I know I will pop in day one to enjoy. I'm changing my ways and my habits to be less prone to them. Not perfect in the least, but understanding and seeing it, even while falling prey to it, is a start.
I doubt 7E will be a panacea for Dread fans, unless it's Dreadknights. He lowly walker hasn't been good... Ever? From my limited understanding of the span of previous editions, they've always fallen short of their fluff brethren.
I hate to say it, and know I am going to get some hate for saying it, but, my gaming group is pretty leery of the new rules and 40K in general has been loosing it's appeal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 01:19:43
2014/05/15 00:54:12
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
Welcome to Dakka, I see you're new. Stating a negative opinion of GW is unlikely to attract too much hate here.
Mind you, well supported and reasoned, no opinion will.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Psychic tests are no longer leadership tests. You generate your total pool, allocate dice to cast and then roll them. 4+ succeeds. X number of successes are needed to cast the power. 3 successes, for most.
Certain things can give you a 3+ on the dice, like having an affinity with the discipline. 2 or more 6s you peril. So you can still fail to cast and perils but typically if you got 2 6s you should have passed.
To stop a power, allocate your warp charge dice and roll deny the witch. 6+ to succeed. 5+ if you have a psyker. +1 if they have a hood. +1 if you're a higher mastery level and nearby the unit being affected. Even powers that do not effect you can be stopped, like blessings.
Ugh. Really not liking this.
Most psykers will be finding it very difficult to cast powers - you're going to want 3 or 4 warp charges to even cast a ML1 power. A ML3 power will want ~8 dice.
Armies that rely on psykers - especially Tzeentch Daemons & Eldar - may be hit quite hard, by what I'm seeing.
Yeah poor Eldar, who have the best transport in the game, and whose basic troops are capable of punching through terminator armor. Oh woe is them!
Seriously Eldar and all prescience spammers needed a nerf like this bad.
Same with Tzeentch cheeselists. Though I hope the DoT rule gets updated if only for Pink Horrors. I liked that people were actually using them this edition instead of lumping with Bloodletters in the "take only for fluff" section.
Speaking of which, I REALLY hope Bloodletters become viable again...
GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants"
2014/05/15 00:56:31
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Psychic tests are no longer leadership tests. You generate your total pool, allocate dice to cast and then roll them. 4+ succeeds. X number of successes are needed to cast the power. 3 successes, for most.
Certain things can give you a 3+ on the dice, like having an affinity with the discipline. 2 or more 6s you peril. So you can still fail to cast and perils but typically if you got 2 6s you should have passed.
To stop a power, allocate your warp charge dice and roll deny the witch. 6+ to succeed. 5+ if you have a psyker. +1 if they have a hood. +1 if you're a higher mastery level and nearby the unit being affected. Even powers that do not effect you can be stopped, like blessings.
So, Space Marine psykers just get 4+ baseline? 3+ if they are higher level, and then 2+ with Adamantium will?
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2014/05/15 00:57:04
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Psychic tests are no longer leadership tests. You generate your total pool, allocate dice to cast and then roll them. 4+ succeeds. X number of successes are needed to cast the power. 3 successes, for most.
Certain things can give you a 3+ on the dice, like having an affinity with the discipline. 2 or more 6s you peril. So you can still fail to cast and perils but typically if you got 2 6s you should have passed.
To stop a power, allocate your warp charge dice and roll deny the witch. 6+ to succeed. 5+ if you have a psyker. +1 if they have a hood. +1 if you're a higher mastery level and nearby the unit being affected. Even powers that do not effect you can be stopped, like blessings.
Ugh. Really not liking this.
Most psykers will be finding it very difficult to cast powers - you're going to want 3 or 4 warp charges to even cast a ML1 power. A ML3 power will want ~8 dice.
Armies that rely on psykers - especially Tzeentch Daemons & Eldar - may be hit quite hard, by what I'm seeing.
Yeah poor Eldar, who have the best transport in the game, and whose basic troops are capable of punching through terminator armor. Oh woe is them!
Seriously Eldar and all prescience spammers needed a nerf like this bad.
Same with Tzeentch cheeselists. Though I hope the DoT rule gets updated if only for Pink Horrors. I liked that people were actually using them this edition instead of lumping with Bloodletters in the "take only for fluff" section.
Speaking of which, I REALLY hope Bloodletters become viable again...
They're +1 I on the charge away from being at least worth considering IMO.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/05/15 00:59:26
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Psychic tests are no longer leadership tests. You generate your total pool, allocate dice to cast and then roll them. 4+ succeeds. X number of successes are needed to cast the power. 3 successes, for most.
Certain things can give you a 3+ on the dice, like having an affinity with the discipline. 2 or more 6s you peril. So you can still fail to cast and perils but typically if you got 2 6s you should have passed.
To stop a power, allocate your warp charge dice and roll deny the witch. 6+ to succeed. 5+ if you have a psyker. +1 if they have a hood. +1 if you're a higher mastery level and nearby the unit being affected. Even powers that do not effect you can be stopped, like blessings.
Ugh. Really not liking this.
Most psykers will be finding it very difficult to cast powers - you're going to want 3 or 4 warp charges to even cast a ML1 power. A ML3 power will want ~8 dice.
Armies that rely on psykers - especially Tzeentch Daemons & Eldar - may be hit quite hard, by what I'm seeing.
Yeah poor Eldar, who have the best transport in the game, and whose basic troops are capable of punching through terminator armor. Oh woe is them!
Seriously Eldar and all prescience spammers needed a nerf like this bad.
Same with Tzeentch cheeselists. Though I hope the DoT rule gets updated if only for Pink Horrors. I liked that people were actually using them this edition instead of lumping with Bloodletters in the "take only for fluff" section.
Speaking of which, I REALLY hope Bloodletters become viable again...
They're +1 I on the charge away from being at least worth considering IMO.
T3, crap save, no grenades. We have that. It's called howling banshees.
Meh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 02:18:15
Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
2014/05/15 02:30:42
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
well purely opinion on rumour from my perspective as an Eldar player, if jinx has changed to a 4+ reducing to snap fire and snap fire is only -2 to shooting then prepare to book more sessions with your therapist for your anti - wave serpent-ism. Also a lot of Eldar army's are going to completely shut down enemy psychic phases as there'll have more mastery level's than enemy psyker level + die roll combined lol .
2014/05/15 02:32:04
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
We don't know how the defensive dice are generated for sure yet do we?
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2014/05/15 02:41:38
Subject: Re:40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
Hettar wrote: well purely opinion on rumour from my perspective as an Eldar player, if jinx has changed to a 4+ reducing to snap fire and snap fire is only -2 to shooting then prepare to book more sessions with your therapist for your anti - wave serpent-ism. Also a lot of Eldar army's are going to completely shut down enemy psychic phases as there'll have more mastery level's than enemy psyker level + die roll combined lol .
Unless it's like the rumor says, and it's the amount of dice your opponent gets.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
2014/05/15 02:53:04
Subject: 40k 7th Edition release 24th may (may 17th pre-order) confirmed - All info 1st post, new vid p158
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Psychic tests are no longer leadership tests. You generate your total pool, allocate dice to cast and then roll them. 4+ succeeds. X number of successes are needed to cast the power. 3 successes, for most.
Certain things can give you a 3+ on the dice, like having an affinity with the discipline. 2 or more 6s you peril. So you can still fail to cast and perils but typically if you got 2 6s you should have passed.
To stop a power, allocate your warp charge dice and roll deny the witch. 6+ to succeed. 5+ if you have a psyker. +1 if they have a hood. +1 if you're a higher mastery level and nearby the unit being affected. Even powers that do not effect you can be stopped, like blessings.
Ugh. Really not liking this.
Most psykers will be finding it very difficult to cast powers - you're going to want 3 or 4 warp charges to even cast a ML1 power. A ML3 power will want ~8 dice.
Armies that rely on psykers - especially Tzeentch Daemons & Eldar - may be hit quite hard, by what I'm seeing.
Yeah poor Eldar, who have the best transport in the game, and whose basic troops are capable of punching through terminator armor. Oh woe is them!
Seriously Eldar and all prescience spammers needed a nerf like this bad.
Same with Tzeentch cheeselists. Though I hope the DoT rule gets updated if only for Pink Horrors. I liked that people were actually using them this edition instead of lumping with Bloodletters in the "take only for fluff" section.
Speaking of which, I REALLY hope Bloodletters become viable again...
They're +1 I on the charge away from being at least worth considering IMO.
T3, crap save, no grenades. We have that. It's called howling banshees.
Meh.
Banshees are 50% more expensive, can't be taken in groups of 20, don't have a ++ save and aren't S5 on the charge.
Letters aren't great right now, but it would only take a few small changes to make them a solid choice, if not a spectacular one.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Eldarain wrote: We don't know how the defensive dice are generated for sure yet do we?
Either is the rumor that you get as many as your opponent, or you generate as many as you would normal generate every psychic phase
Which wouldn't make any sense considering armies that don't have access to psyckers.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
3000
4000 