40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**Hollismason**

Does anyone have that screenshot where it specifically mentions psychic powers not stacking on top of each other if it's the same psychic power? I think its a video screencap.

Thanks a bunch, went throug the thread and apparently it got taken down.

**ClockworkZion**

Hollismason wrote:
Does anyone have that screenshot where it specifically mentions psychic powers not stacking on top of each other if it's the same psychic power? I think its a video screencap.

Thanks a bunch, went throug the thread and apparently it got taken down.

**rollawaythestone**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Hollismason wrote:
Does anyone have that screenshot where it specifically mentions psychic powers not stacking on top of each other if it's the same psychic power? I think its a video screencap.

Thanks a bunch, went throug the thread and apparently it got taken down.

Is this text even different from how it is currently worded in the rulebook? I am of the opinion that Blessings / Maledictions don't stack unless they specifically allow it, but many people rule that different castings of the same power can stack. I don't see anything about the new wording that clears up this ambiguity.

**Therion**

barnowl wrote:
Therion wrote:

a) Titans and other crazies in 1500 point standard games.
b) Are Forgeworld units finally legal without a tournament rules package or the opponent's permission or an endless debate on the internet about it?
c) Are data slates legal? Are data sheets legal? Are all the fortifications in Stronghold Assault legal in small points values?
d) Why is the tabletop size for the battle still the exact same size it was 15 years ago, considering now we have 5 times more models on the table?
e) Lastly the unbound vs. battle forged, which is a stupid debate altogether. Unbound means you pick and choose any models/units from any codex and match them together to make the ultimate army. If you're so new or completely unimaginative and only copy a tournament winner's list for yourself before you can assemble an army, you won't understand, but for the regulars, unbound is like 10 tiers above battle forged in overall strength. And how can you say it's not legal, if it's a part of the core rules?

Who the heck cares about snap fire when all of the above issues are going on? Can we actually talk about the game of 40K instead of one or two universal special rules? Thanks.

a) They have been several pages of it
b) No change to FW rules yet so still oppenents okay
c) DataSlates have been legal for a while, just not liked and there for banned at some tourney. Datasheets are APOC things so still APO only no change, SA has been since book hit if you use it so no change there.
d) IT has changed rather a lot. At one point there were 3 official sizes 4x4 Alpha boards, 4x6 Delta boards and 4x8 Omega boards now there is just 4x6 standards and 4x8 or bigger apoc boards so they have changed.
e) That is the general view of Unbound. And it is very easy to say it's not legal: "This is my event, and I am making Unbound illegal do to imbalance for it. You can agree and play, disagree and not play". See that, pretty easy to do and TO's been doing it for years.

There we go. I got a response. And the response is: Yeah, 7th edition hit, and it made everything legal and fixed zero of the glaring issues in this game, and we're still going to house rule everything and not follow the official rules at all because they're imbalanced as gak. Of course we're all still going to pay hundreds of dollars for the new edition and changes in army composition, but it'll still be the same gak game, or worse. So essentially all 7th edition will change for the people who house rule everything anyway is a few universal special rules and the psychic phase. Gotcha. What did those marvellous developments cost in real money again?

**ClockworkZion**

rollawaythestone wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Hollismason wrote:
Does anyone have that screenshot where it specifically mentions psychic powers not stacking on top of each other if it's the same psychic power? I think its a video screencap.

Thanks a bunch, went throug the thread and apparently it got taken down.

Is this text even different from how it is currently worded in the rulebook? I am of the opinion that Blessings / Maledictions don't stack unless they specifically allow it, but many people rule that different castings of the same power can stack. I don't see anything about the new wording that clears up this ambiguity.

I've attached the current version. The stacking thing was FAQ'd for 6th and allowed them to stack as long as they weren't from the same caster.

**rollawaythestone**

I don't remember a FAQ that said anything of that sort. Am i just crazy?

It seems the new wording is less ambiguous, just not perfectly clear.

**Hollismason**

It was just a very specific question as the Blessing Cursed Earth specifically says it is cumulative but I don't think that means cursed earth is cumulative with itself since blessing says it won't effect it twice, but who knows.

**ClockworkZion**

rollawaythestone wrote:
I don't remember a FAQ that said anything of that sort. Am i just crazy?

It seems the new wording is less ambiguous, just not perfectly clear.

It's not in the current ones but I clearly remember it being in the FAQs at one point that let Grey Knights stack Hammerhand as long as they were from different sources.

**Hollismason**

Whoop whoop first rules question of 7th , lol.

**Shingen**

Desubot wrote:
"Avengers:
gazkull, hulk
Shadowsun, ironman
Shrike, wolverine
Lilith, black widow
Warp spider exarc or some nid thing, spidermam
Vindicare, Hawkeye
Corteaz, thor
Drago, captain america "

Make it happen right now.

Dark Eldar Lhamean as Loki

**ClockworkZion**

Hollismason wrote:
Whoop whoop first rules question of 7th , lol.

Seriously it's a rules question regarding a rumor. Let the rules come out before we start deciding if we need to flood YMDC with questions about them.

I don't really see how there is any confusion on the new one because it says "The benefit of any one paticular blessing can only be gained once per unit per turn" meaning that you can't, say Hammerhand multiple times anymore and then it goes on to say "but benefits from different plessings are cumulative" so if you have different blessings that give the same effect they can stack.

That's a lot clearer than the old version which didn't say anything about using the same blessing from different sources on a unit.

**Sihdhartha**

Sigvatr wrote:
Sihdhartha wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
When was the last time you had to ask allowance for someone to use Farsight Enclave?

I wouldn't know I've never used it , but yes I get your point, but that has to do more with perception of power than anything else. Hell, an opponent could choose not to play anything. So having a rule that specifically says that x is now legal doesn't mean all groups or places will allow it.

You got it exactly

FW rules are very hit and miss. There obviously are a few stupidly overpowered things, but most of it is actually even underpowered. Granted, as usual, guess what a lot of people get. And yes, FW keeps up with the insane marine favorism...but Xenos get some nice things too. Sentry Pylons e.g. are amazing.

The best thing Tau got from FW : Tetra's, luckily my group allows FW

**Crazyterran**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Hollismason wrote:
Whoop whoop first rules question of 7th , lol.

Seriously it's a rules question regarding a rumor. Let the rules come out before we start deciding if we need to flood YMDC with questions about them.

I don't really see how there is any confusion on the new one because it says "The benefit of any one paticular blessing can only be gained once per unit per turn" meaning that you can't, say Hammerhand multiple times anymore and then it goes on to say "but benefits from different plessings are cumulative" so if you have different blessings that give the same effect they can stack.

That's a lot clearer than the old version which didn't say anything about using the same blessing from different sources on a unit.

So you can Hammerhand and then Iron Arm, but you can't Hammerhand and Hammerhand.

Looking at the picture of the psychic power cards, it looks like Iron Arm just adds a straight +3 Strength and Toughness and then some other one word rule i couldnt make out.

**Azreal13**

Eternal Warrior hopefully, or DPs just took a small nerf.

**puma713**

Sihdhartha wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
When was the last time you had to ask allowance for someone to use Farsight Enclave?

I wouldn't know I've never used it , but yes I get your point, but that has to do more with perception of power than anything else. Hell, an opponent could choose not to play anything. So having a rule that specifically says that x is now legal doesn't mean all groups or places will allow it.

Yes, but people, in general, like to go to a place knowing that they won't be told "Hey, half your list is illegal." Sure, you can call ahead to any venue you are going to and build a new army list for each event, but before all these muddy waters, you knew what the gaming scene would look like. Now you don't, so much.

**ClockworkZion**

Crazyterran wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Hollismason wrote:
Whoop whoop first rules question of 7th , lol.

Seriously it's a rules question regarding a rumor. Let the rules come out before we start deciding if we need to flood YMDC with questions about them.

I don't really see how there is any confusion on the new one because it says "The benefit of any one paticular blessing can only be gained once per unit per turn" meaning that you can't, say Hammerhand multiple times anymore and then it goes on to say "but benefits from different plessings are cumulative" so if you have different blessings that give the same effect they can stack.

That's a lot clearer than the old version which didn't say anything about using the same blessing from different sources on a unit.

So you can Hammerhand and then Iron Arm, but you can't Hammerhand and Hammerhand.

Looking at the picture of the psychic power cards, it looks like Iron Arm just adds a straight +3 Strength and Toughness and then some other one word rule i couldnt make out.

Unless I completely forgot how to English, yes that's how it reads to me and frankly it makes the most sense to me that way too.

**Crazyterran**

azreal13 wrote:
Eternal Warrior hopefully, or DPs just took a small nerf.

They kind of deserve it. Especially with the other buffs FMCs may be getting. (I say as I own a FMC CD army...)

I'm also finding myself more interested in the FAQs that will be coming out instead of the actual rulebook; how will this effect, say, Tigurius' Hood of Hellfire? Will it make any difference to the White Scar special rules? Or any HQ that makes a certain type of unit scoring - while it count them as troops instead?

**puma713**

I browsed the OP, but didn't see any information on the randomness of things. Maybe I missed it, but are random charge ranges and random psychic powers still in?

**Crazyterran**

I'm assuming since the Psychic Powers are still numbered, that they are still random. And there's been no talk of Charge changing beyond instead of rolling 3 and dropping the highest, instead it's just a flat -2". Which is good and bad, I suppose... (With bad luck, you can now fail a 2" charge!)

**Azreal13**

puma713 wrote:
I browsed the OP, but didn't see any information on the randomness of things. Maybe I missed it, but are random charge ranges and random psychic powers still in?

Almost definitely on Powers, I'm sure I've read references to rolling for powers in some of the WD articles, assault range has been stated as remaining the same (but only -2" for charging through terrain) but not sure of the provenance on that.

**Vector Strike**

unmercifulconker wrote:Didn't know unbound allowed any unit from any codex always thought it had to be same army. What hero teams should there be then:
Avengers:
gazkull, hulk
Shadowsun, ironman
Shrike, wolverine
Assassin, black widow
?, spidermam
?, Hawkeye
Corteaz, thor
Drago, captain america

Painted in their colours it must be done the emperor wills it

X-Men:

Marneus Calgar = Professor X
Commissar Yarrick = Cyclops
Sanguinor = Angel
Eldrad = Jean Grey
Shrike = Wolverine
Nemesor Zahndrekh = Rogue
The Masque of Slaanesh = Dazzler
Tigurius = Emma Frost
Vulkan He'stan = Forge
Ezekiel = Cable

And villains:
Tyranids (all) = The Brood
Necrons (Canoptek stuff) = The Phalanx
Fabius Bile = Mr. Sinister
Orikan the Diviner = Apocalypse
Abaddon = Horseman of War
Typhus = Horseman of Pestilence
? = Horseman of Famine
Mephiston = Horseman of Death
Sevrin Loth = Magneto
Epidemius = Mojo
Wraithlord = Sentinel
Riptide = Nimrod
Eldar (faction) = Shi'Ar
Karanak = Predator X
The Changeling = Mystique
? = Sabretooth
Jain Zar = Lady Deathstrike

ClockworkZion wrote:Someone has done something similar to that before:

there's even a Deadpool! love it

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crazyterran wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Hollismason wrote:
Whoop whoop first rules question of 7th , lol.

Seriously it's a rules question regarding a rumor. Let the rules come out before we start deciding if we need to flood YMDC with questions about them.

I don't really see how there is any confusion on the new one because it says "The benefit of any one paticular blessing can only be gained once per unit per turn" meaning that you can't, say Hammerhand multiple times anymore and then it goes on to say "but benefits from different plessings are cumulative" so if you have different blessings that give the same effect they can stack.

That's a lot clearer than the old version which didn't say anything about using the same blessing from different sources on a unit.

So you can Hammerhand and then Iron Arm, but you can't Hammerhand and Hammerhand.

Looking at the picture of the psychic power cards, it looks like Iron Arm just adds a straight +3 Strength and Toughness and then some other one word rule i couldnt make out.

May you tell me where are the pics of the psychic powers? I only know the Malefic ones...

**TheKbob**

Seems like my post got skipped over... Do we have any conjecture on how psychic powers that are cast in the assault phase will work, more so ones that could be cast in either opponents turn. Also,how do force weapons work now?

**BlaxicanX**

ClockworkZion wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
You cut part of my post off there in your rush to look right. I did mention all flyer armies were legal. That alone makes the idea of "not models = instant lose" questionable.
I really don't think it does. I've seen rumors that Unbound armies ignore the FOC. Where are you seeing that an all-flyer army is possible?

I don't get how you don't see that they are. If someone doesn't have to follow FOC they can easilly take an army of nothing but Stormtalons, Heldrakes or Doom Scythes (to name a few).

As noted by Peregrine, there are already armies you can take that start everything in reserve (Elysian lists, DoA etc).

You just lose turn 1. =|

So players simply having the option to use an all-reserves list is in no way shape or form indicative that they're going to change the rules for tabling.

**ClockworkZion**

TheKbob wrote:
Seems like my post got skipped over... Do we have any conjecture on how psychic powers that are cast in the assault phase will work, more so ones that could be cast in either opponents turn. Also,how do force weapons work now?

None yet.

**GrimDork**

Gah, even if I do fork over the money for the book and apparently the cards now too... this would probably generate hours of me trying to figure out what's good again... Do I still bother with my biker troops, do I go back to tacticals, in rhinos? Gah head asplode.

**Hollismason**

Yeah, the weirdest thing that I see happening is that there has to be some errata or straight up rewriting of some of the Psyhic Powers in the books presented just because functionally they don't work. Also, special abilities that give a bonus to leadership no longer work as well.

**Sigvatr**

Therion wrote:

There we go. I got a response. And the response is: Yeah, 7th edition hit, and it made everything legal and fixed zero of the glaring issues in this game, and we're still going to house rule everything and not follow the official rules at all because they're imbalanced as gak. Of course we're all still going to pay hundreds of dollars for the new edition and changes in army composition, but it'll still be the same gak game, or worse. So essentially all 7th edition will change for the people who house rule everything anyway is a few universal special rules and the psychic phase. Gotcha. What did those marvellous developments cost in real money again?

Correct. 7th appears to be fully reliant on house rules to be working on a level higher than "Shoving stuff around". It will make 40k games even longer than before - which is a terrible thing.

**Wilson**

Please can we go back to discussing the new rules and bring possitive about how awesome this all is? I really think they are on the right track to making the game more;

a.) fun
b.) unpredictable and capturing
C.) balanced!

It'll never be completely balanced- if it was, it'd just be another game of chess and people who play 40k are the ones who are looking for more than that.

Edited by AgeOfEgos--no

**Ghaz**

I believe someone needs to read the forum rules.

**Basimpo**

Heres an idea for my first tourney unbound army list. Feedback appreciated!
Dark angels codex
1500 points
15 chaplains w/ combi melta @100pt ea.
1500 points.

I figure to attack like 2 girls 1 cup: 15 chaplains 1 squad.
They are are all independent chars so any movement leaving any chaplains out of coherency simply forms their own unit.

Well, thats it for strategy so far. Meltas for tank damaging i suppose. Still working on usefulness.

Im excited for unbound, now i dont have to call some of the local players in my town cheats for fielding more than the foc, i can just say ahhhh unbound nice.