40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**Loopstah**

Deshkar wrote:

Prescience is still a Primaris.

This makes my guard happy.

**MadmanMSU**

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

The real question is: what did they do to assault? Can you assault out of transports (with relentless, perhaps)?

**Desubot**

Vector Strike wrote:

Well, at least vehicles can breathe against smash. But letting it be AP2 even in normal attacks was the best thing about Smash

Darn, Riptides now care about personal space.

About VS, 1 AP2 Ignores Cover isn't that scary...

Great now i have the visuals of a hell drake picking up a terminator and dropping it from height to get into the meaty goodness inside. not unlike a hawk.

**Leth**

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

Other than Smash only being one attack a lot of that makes more sense. So vector strikes become really good against fliers but meh against ground targets. Any word on if you can swap for the primaris? or do you only get it by specializing? ICs cant be in the same unit as MC kills the Riptide army singlehandedly. So they buffed fliers a little bit but took them down a significant notch.

I like it. Suprised at prescience as the primaris but if it goes to warp charge 2 it will still be a tough call. Still for 10 points mystics become auto takes in my henchmen squads now. So now its 18 points for a mastery level 1 scoring unit, so 54 points for three charges. Not bad, now to find the points.....

**Mr Morden**

Hmm So Smash only 1 attack - pity that you can only ever hit on a 3+ - stupid GW and its shooting bias......... :(

They really should fix the WS vs WS table, high BS gets 2+ and re-rolls

**Colpicklejar**

So where the heck is the sanctic chart? People DO have the book, right?

**streamdragon**

Wilson wrote:

pretty sure IC's have never been allowed to join MC.

does this mean no more buffmander and riptide combo?
Tau are being bullied a little!

Not really sure why you thought that wasn't allowed.
Riptides are MC.
Commanders (IC) can join Riptide (MC).

Carnifexes are MC.
Tyranid Primes(IC) can join Carnifexes (MC).

The limitation is only units "that are always a single model", so things like the Wraithknight, Wraithlord, Tyranofex, Exorcine, Dreadknight, etc. can't be joined.

Edit: Smash dropping you to only 1 attack is a serious kick in the bio-engineered goonya of Tyranids. Tervigons, Trygons, Tyranofexes, even Hive Tyrants. Suddenly opening tanks got a lot harder for Nids.

**Shandara**

No pictures yet.. so I'm salting these rumors.

**Syphid**

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

Being invisible makes you immune to templates?

**Wilson**

Colpicklejar wrote:
So where the heck is the sanctic chart? People DO have the book, right?

Sorry if you already read this and wanted a photo of the actual chart but I read on Warseer that the Santic powers are all the GK powers + VOD @ Strength D.

**Deshkar**

I only read it earlier in the day when i got my copy before going for work, so I only really recall the highlights, precise details like exact warp charges, I can't remember.

Yes, you get primaris if you roll entirely on the same table for the psyker.

Sanctic.
Primaris - Banishment anti-demon (-1invuln)
Gate of Infinity.
Hammerhand
Str D Vortex.
Sanctuary , iirc makes demon within 12" all move like DT.
Cleansing Flame (some nova)
One more spell, you target an opponent, both roll dice and add to ld, if you're higher than him, he auto losses a W, no saves.

Precision shot is a USR now, so guards need 6s to do precision after that Order.

Str D now only ignores all saves on a six. If not a six, the Str D weapon profile's AP is followed. Str D is also assumed to be S10.

Deny the Witch for passive spells, like blessings are denied on a six. However offensive/directed/maledictions spells that target you, is a different matter, your DTW rolls can be improved. So you could technically go up to a 3+ dtw against offensive powers.

**Samurai_Eduh**

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

If true, O'vesa star just died.

**MWHistorian**

tag8833 wrote:
streamdragon wrote:
Lobukia wrote:
Battlesong wrote:
streamdragon wrote:
Tyfus wrote:
Going from memory yes wounds/HP loss are here on the majority of effects, usually as the "better" effect that you get from a successful Ld test (results on the table read as "Take Ld test, success= suffers this, failure= suffers that).

Why do I see Shadows in the Warp not getting any change at all, since the Ld penalty would now have an actual (although pathetically minor) penalty for psykers?

Because doing anything else might be a boon to the Nids and we all know GW can't give the Nids anything since they are already Soooooo OP.......

If the grounding checks are as soft as rumors say... you'll be just fine

Unless like me you don't run FMCs, so grounding checks don't matter one iota.

I've got a message for you from GW. "Flying Circus is the only way we would like anyone to play Tyranids. That is why we made Hordes suck via Synapse, and MC's suck via removal of biomancy and Mycetic Spores. We can't get rid of Tyranids, but we can limit them to a mono-build. People didn't really get the hint, so we are changing vector strike to be D6 hits and AP2, and limiting grounding tests to 1 per turn. Also we are going to change the vehicle Pen table to make sure that Carnifexes can't deal with vehicle at all, and change the psychic phase so that Zoenthrope's pitiful ability to pop vehicles is nerfed. If you continue to stubbornly insist that you can play non-flying circus tyranids, we will release FAQs to nerf MC's and Hoards further until you take the hint. Are you ready for Toughness 4 Tyrannofexes?"

That's sadly accurate and the same story with Sisters of Battle. The email I got from them read something like "Yes, we heard the customer's complaints that the Penitent Engines and Repentia were barely useable. On behalf of Gamesworkshop I'd like to offer our apology. Our intent was to make sure that those units were completely useless. Upon release of the 6th digital only codex, we will be giving further nerfs to those units in order to limit the possible builds for the Sisters of Battle Army. We really don't want you to feel that you have enough choices for an already limited army. We apologize and hope you will be patient while we look for further ways to limit your army."

And then 7th comes out with a psyker phase...just for psykers. SOB don't have psykers.
Thank you GW! You know exactly what us players want!

Maybe SOB and Nids should be Battle Brothers.

**Desubot**

Leth wrote:

I like it. Suprised at prescience as the primaris but if it goes to warp charge 2 it will still be a tough call.

Though primaries changed around as well If that was confirmed. where you need to have all rolls in one discipline to get the primaries for free (cant really complain as divination had some nice stuff)

**Wilson**

streamdragon wrote:
Wilson wrote:

pretty sure IC's have never been allowed to join MC.

does this mean no more buffmander and riptide combo?
Tau are being bullied a little!

Not really sure why you thought that wasn't allowed.
Riptides are MC.
Commanders (IC) can join Riptide (MC).

Carnifexes are MC.
Tyranid Primes(IC) can join Carnifexes (MC).

The limitation is only units "that are always a single model", so things like the Wraithknight, Wraithlord, Tyranofex, Exorcine, Dreadknight, etc. can't be joined.

I Haven't played a nid army that has done before that + I wasn't aware that other armies where doing this as well as Tau.

**streamdragon**

Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

If true, O'vesa star just died.

And nothing of value was lost.

**Mr Morden**

And then 7th comes out with a psyker phase...just for psykers. SOB don't have psykers. Thank you GW! You know exactly what us players want!

Maybe SOB and Nids should be Battle Brothers.

Still worried not seen any reference to Sororitas in the fluff leaks....................

However if Adamantium Will is any good for the DTW rolls - thats nice.........

**undertow**

streamdragon wrote:
Wilson wrote:

pretty sure IC's have never been allowed to join MC.

does this mean no more buffmander and riptide combo?
Tau are being bullied a little!

Not really sure why you thought that wasn't allowed.
Riptides are MC.
Commanders (IC) can join Riptide (MC).

Carnifexes are MC.
Tyranid Primes(IC) can join Carnifexes (MC).

The limitation is only units "that are always a single model", so things like the Wraithknight, Wraithlord, Tyranofex, Exorcine, Dreadknight, etc. can't be joined.

Edit: Smash dropping you to only 1 attack is a serious kick in the bio-engineered goonya of Tyranids. Tervigons, Trygons, Tyranofexes, even Hive Tyrants. Suddenly opening tanks got a lot harder for Nids.

Same for Daemons. Monstrous Creaters in CC was my only reliable way to do it. Although the last game I played, a Puppet Mastered Wraithknight opened a few cans for me.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

If true, O'vesa star just died.

Good.

**Nevelon**

Syphid wrote:
Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

Being invisible makes you immune to templates?

Which is very counter-intuitive.

"Sir! Something in sector 4 is shooting at us, but it’s not showing up on the auspex and nobody has spotted it.”
“Have the Whirlwinds put a few volleys into the zone, and then move up the flamer teams and scorch the area. .Burn them out”

Blasts and templates should be the answer for things you can’t see.

**Uriels_Flame**

Sigvatr wrote:

Precisely. Perils should always, always, always be a bad thing as you get punished for bad plays. If there even is one chance to get a good result, it's poor game design as it rewards bad plays. Jesus, this is game design 101. Like, really, really basic game design.

You realize who we're talking about here, right? The same folks who thought unlimited dice in a power pool to get off one spell was a good idea? And most fantasy daemon players were happy to sacrifice their wizard just to get the irresistible roll because that is just how bad those OP spells were (and still are to some extent).

Randomness is part of the allure of playing OnG in fantasy. These charts are not rare there, as the WoC have them as well as Perils version for wizards.

Wizards have always been a crap shoot, pending on the army as there is always a way around the chart per army specific rules.

Making 40k more like Fantasy should make me like it a lot more - but I'm still not seeing it, even with all the information coming out.

My thought is they will make Fantasy more like 40k in that it may become squad based and give bonuses base on squad size.

Beware if Tzch casters get anything related to a "purple sun"...

**Deshkar**

Deshkar wrote:
I only read it earlier in the day, so I only really recall the highlights, precise details like exact warp charges, I can't remember.

Yes, you get primaris if you roll entirely on the same table for the psyker.

Sanctic.
Primaris - Banishment -> anti-demon (-1invuln)
Gate of Infinity.
Hammerhand
Str D Vortex.
Sanctuary , iirc makes demon within 12" all move like DT.
Cleansing Flame (some nova)
One more spell, you target an opponent, both roll dice and add to ld, if you're higher than him, he auto losses a W, no saves.

Precision shot is a USR now, so guards need 6s to do precision after that Order.

Str D now only ignores all saves on a six. If not a six, the Str D weapon profile's AP is followed. Str D is also assumed to be S10, so yah T6 don't get one shoted! D

Deny the Witch for passive spells, like blessings are denied on a six. However offensive/directed/maledictions spells that target you, is a different matter, your DTW rolls can be improved by brother ofpsyker +1, psyker mastery level being higher than the offensive caster+1 and adamantium will +1. So you could technically go up to a 3+ dtw against offensive powers.

added more interesting stuffs that I can recall. about the DTW.

**jackblg**

Hmm intresting... definatly intresting.. not sure I like the Smash, only one attack, but the rest sounds good (ah well nids will just need to be pushed further back onto there shelf.. might even cover them in some necrons..)

**Vector Strike**

Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

If true, O'vesa star just died.

That brings up a curious situation... an IC that cannot join any other IC (unless there is an exception)

**Deshkar**

Vector Strike wrote:
Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

If true, O'vesa star just died.

That brings a curious situation... an IC that cannot join any other IC (unless there is an exception)

Would being Farsight body guard still allow him to be with the other bodyguards + farsight?

**Wilson**

Deshkar wrote:
Vector Strike wrote:
Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

If true, O'vesa star just died.

That brings a curious situation... an IC that cannot join any other IC (unless there is an exception)

Would being Farsight body guard still allow him to be with the other bodyguards + farsight?

I was just about to ask that!

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

MWHistorian wrote:
And then 7th comes out with a psyker phase...just for psykers. SOB don't have psykers.

On the other hand, we have no flyers or FMC either.

**Vector Strike**

Wilson wrote:
Deshkar wrote:
Vector Strike wrote:
Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

If true, O'vesa star just died.

That brings a curious situation... an IC that cannot join any other IC (unless there is an exception)

Would being Farsight body guard still allow him to be with the other bodyguards + farsight?

I was just about to ask that!

In fact, not letting O'Vesa join Farsight squad goes against the Farsight Enclaves idea of 'The Eight'.
Geedubs, geedubs...

**WrentheFaceless**

Deshkar wrote:
I only read it earlier in the day, so I only really recall the highlights, precise details like exact warp charges, I can't remember.

Yes, you get primaris if you roll entirely on the same table for the psyker.

Sanctic.
Primaris - Banishment -> anti-demon (-1invuln)
Gate of Infinity.
Hammerhand
Str D Vortex.
Sanctuary , iirc makes demon within 12" all move like DT.
Cleansing Flame (some nova)
One more spell, you target an opponent, both roll dice and add to ld, if you're higher than him, he auto losses a W, no saves.

Precision shot is a USR now, so guards need 6s to do precision after that Order.

Str D now only ignores all saves on a six. If not a six, the Str D weapon profile's AP is followed. Str D is also assumed to be S10, so yah T6 don't get one shoted! D

Deny the Witch for passive spells, like blessings are denied on a six. However offensive/directed/maledictions spells that target you, is a different matter, your DTW rolls can be improved by brother ofpsyker +1, psyker mastery level being higher than the offensive caster+1 and adamantium will +1. So you could technically go up to a 3+ dtw against offensive powers.

Unfortunate blessings are only denied on a 6 and nothing can affect that. Though hopefully they'll be harder to get off now.

Though I'm hoping now my GK units gets their choice on what powers they want instead of automatically assigned powers.

**buddha**

@deshkar: thanks for sharing. How does ally chart look (interested in necrons) and how are the levels of alliance changed if at all (ie desperate, battle brothers, ect.) in terms rules.

**BeeCee**

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

This is really bad for Tyranids if true.