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I would be really disappointed to find no change to the Ignores Cover rule. The -2 rumor was exciting because it was a game changer and made cover viable again whilst making Helldrakes and Tau a little more manageable.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Precisely. Perils should always, always, always be a bad thing as you get punished for bad plays. If there even is one chance to get a good result, it's poor game design as it rewards bad plays. Jesus, this is game design 101. Like, really, really basic game design.

You realize who we're talking about here, right? The same folks who thought unlimited dice in a power pool to get off one spell was a good idea? And most fantasy daemon players were happy to sacrifice their wizard just to get the irresistible roll because that is just how bad those OP spells were (and still are to some extent).

Randomness is part of the allure of playing OnG in fantasy. These charts are not rare there, as the WoC have them as well as Perils version for wizards.

Wizards have always been a crap shoot, pending on the army as there is always a way around the chart per army specific rules.

Making 40k more like Fantasy should make me like it a lot more - but I'm still not seeing it, even with all the information coming out.

My thought is they will make Fantasy more like 40k in that it may become squad based and give bonuses base on squad size.

Beware if Tzch casters get anything related to a "purple sun"...

Exactly - it was never really the magic "phase" that was the problem - it was the insane spells that could obliterate entire units. Even though every result on the miscast table was "bad", most of the results were pitiful compared to the devastation a wizard could cause with the right spell.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

If true, O'vesa star just died.

And nothing of value was lost.

I'm a Tau player and I agree. O'Vesastar was an abomination as are all deathstars tbh.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
And then 7th comes out with a psyker phase...just for psykers. SOB don't have psykers.

On the other hand, we have no flyers or FMC either.

You will soon, it's called the "Holy Discontinuous"...

And cheer up - SoB will be the Dwarves in space.

Things I'm interested in:

Any thing that disallows 2++ rerolls
Changes to assault/disembarking
Cover save modifiers (additions and changes)

To me, these will make or break this edition... but certainly some could be covered in FAQs

I'm with Lobukia.

Everything else is just icing. If assault and cover can be rectified, and the most extreme deathstar builds shored up a bit, I'm satisfied.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

If true, O'vesa star just died.

And nothing of value was lost.

I'm a Tau player and I agree. O'Vesastar was an abomination as are all deathstars tbh.

Ditto but I would have liked to have seen the 2+ reroll stars get hit first.
still hoping for something!

The rumoured change to Smash is intriguing. It would make things like Contemptors and Decimator Daemon Engines viable in CC against most MCs. They are immune to regular attacks thanks to AV 13, and only one S10 Smash attack that may only hit on 4s in some cases isn't that scary.

The Vector Strike change would be a nerf to Heldrake. I'd rather it stay the same as before, but I'm willing to adapt.

2+ re-roll stars got hit with the unreliability of powers, the dice pool limiting the ability to reliably stack powers, as well as people having the opportunity to stop powers.

Ovesa stars got hit by ics not being able to join MC units(but nothing stopping Ovesa from joining a unit without an MC)

Sisters/BT have built in adamantium will as well as battle brothers with armys that have lots of psykers. You can get 3 more dice from inq for 54 points as well as two null rods for pretty cheap if you are really worried about it.

The change to Jink has a big impact on wave serpent spam

The change to vector strike and smash has a huge impact on FMCs

We still have no idea how special rules might change so it is premature to know how its all going to work together

Did I miss any?

Wilson wrote:

...I would have liked to have seen the 2+ reroll stars get hit first.
still hoping for something!

I'm really hoping that a failed power can't be recast that turn, or something along those line (but I think we'd already seen that in the pages revealed so far). The fact that the GW morons thought their Captain and Chappy was getting too much play and Libby wasn't, really makes me question their understanding of their own system/rules... we just really need blessings to be easier to shutdown/counter... and stupid Battle Brothers interactions too... how can they not understand how their own games works after 2 years?!! While I don't excuse it, I can accept by now that they can't competently playtest... but at least get the in-game dynamics after everyone has play tested it for you.

Consider me a Vegan.

And overall I don't think most people are against deathstars - as the new edition will have them too.

It's about the points costs and the disadvantages that should be inherent in taking them.

Each edition has it's own, I'm just not interested in getting on the merry go round again.

So, looking at how the psychic stuff impacts my Thousand Sons (or, for that matter, a lot of the CSM armies if they use Sorcerers).

Aspiring Sorcerers...hmmmm. Well, they're only ML1, and can't upgrade. They'll always get two powers, one rolled for and the Tzeentch primaris power. I was initially worried about the bit in the aligned chaos psychic powers rules that limits them to only half of their powers being able to come from a god-specific lore, but the wording specifies that they can only ROLL for up to half (rounded up) of their powers on a god-specific chart. The extra primaris power isn't rolled for, so every one of my Aspiring Sorcerers will have Tzeentch's Firestorm in addition to whatever else they roll.

Now, the flip side of it. All of my other Sorcerers will either have exactly the same small set of powers that the Aspiring Sorcerers do (bleah), or, if above ML1, will never get the free primaris power.

Interesting...some good, some bad. Still have to deal with the continual disdain that Game Development seems to have for Thousand Sons.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Consider me a Vegan.

And overall I don't think most people are against deathstars - as the new edition will have them too.

It's about the points costs and the disadvantages that should be inherent in taking them.

Each edition has it's own, I'm just not interested in getting on the merry go round again.

Just doesnt make sense to devote time an energy(especially negative energy) to something that no longer affects you. I tried warmachine. Put down 500+ dollars into it. About 5 games in I realized I just despised the entire game, hated the rules, hated the lack of customization, hated how the themed lists with the warcaster I wanted to run sucked, hated how the models I like sucked and to get a decent force I had to use models that I hated the look of. Absolutely hated it.

I dont sit around going to warmachine forums talking about how much I thought it sucked, I barely even give it a second thought.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Consider me a Vegan.

And overall I don't think most people are against deathstars - as the new edition will have them too.

It's about the points costs and the disadvantages that should be inherent in taking them.

Each edition has it's own, I'm just not interested in getting on the merry go round again.

What's vegetables got to do with Deathstars?

Hhhhmmmmm?

 Lobukia wrote:

Wilson wrote:

...I would have liked to have seen the 2+ reroll stars get hit first.
still hoping for something!

I'm really hoping that a failed power can't be recast that turn, or something along those line (but I think we'd already seen that in the pages revealed so far). The fact that the GW morons thought their Captain and Chappy was getting too much play and Libby wasn't, really makes me question their understanding of their own system/rules... we just really need blessings to be easier to shutdown/counter... and stupid Battle Brothers interactions too... how can they not understand how their own games works after 2 years?!! While I don't excuse it, I can accept by now that they can't competently playtest... but at least get the in-game dynamics after everyone has play tested it for you.

I wouldn't be surprised to Fantasy's "if a wizard fails to reach the casting value of the spell = no more casting that turn" rule come into play.

At very least though, if someone is still going to aim for a Screamerstar build, they now have to:
1. Commit to their movement before their added psychic buffs are even attempted.
2. Roll enough casting dice to basically guarantee the power goes off, perhaps risking a much greater chance of Perils than the current 2/36 chance
3. Hope their opponent doesn't just chuck a million deny dice into stopping the critical Blessing from going off.

That's at least a decent nerf compared to the current 0 risk beyond failing a Ld10 check before you even move your deathstar, thus allowing you to automatically move it out of sight should something go wrong.

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.
Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

What. bs. Nerfing Vector Strike? Why?
Nerfing *SMASH*?! Seriously?
Lets go ahead and nerf the Swarmlordstar a tiny bit more.

Oh, and the most overpowered Primaris? Yeah, we'll leave that alone.

 Leth wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Consider me a Vegan.

And overall I don't think most people are against deathstars - as the new edition will have them too.

It's about the points costs and the disadvantages that should be inherent in taking them.

Each edition has it's own, I'm just not interested in getting on the merry go round again.

Just doesnt make sense to devote time an energy(especially negative energy) to something that no longer affects you. I tried warmachine. Put down 500+ dollars into it. About 5 games in I realized I just despised the entire game, hated the rules, hated the lack of customization, hated how the themed lists with the warcaster I wanted to run sucked, hated how the models I like sucked and to get a decent force I had to use models that I hated the look of. Absolutely hated it.

I dont sit around going to warmachine forums talking about how much I thought it sucked, I barely even give it a second thought.

+1 there

rigeld2 wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.
Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

What. bs. Nerfing Vector Strike? Why?
Nerfing *SMASH*?! Seriously?
Lets go ahead and nerf the Swarmlordstar a tiny bit more.

Oh, and the most overpowered Primaris? Yeah, we'll leave that alone.

Yeah... It does seem a little backwards.

I've never thought to myself " Woah... Those 2 attacks my Riptide just missed with where way too good. "

+I Never had any beef with Vector strike either - thought it was perfectly okay!

with the Prescience being the primaris still - I suppose as you can only cast one spell per unit per turn - it'll be easier to deny now thus reducing its impact on the game.

So they nerf existing deathstars but introduce unbound which will in turn introduce 10^26 deathstar combinations in the coming months when people start brainstorming.

Also, nice Straken nerf. He was already bordering on uselessness. Along with Nids taking even more of a beating.

Here is to hoping Deshkar is trolling us....

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Consider me a Vegan.

And overall I don't think most people are against deathstars - as the new edition will have them too.

It's about the points costs and the disadvantages that should be inherent in taking them.

Each edition has it's own, I'm just not interested in getting on the merry go round again.

Just doesnt make sense to devote time an energy(especially negative energy) to something that no longer affects you. I tried warmachine. Put down 500+ dollars into it. About 5 games in I realized I just despised the entire game, hated the rules, hated the lack of customization, hated how the themed lists with the warcaster I wanted to run sucked, hated how the models I like sucked and to get a decent force I had to use models that I hated the look of. Absolutely hated it.

I dont sit around going to warmachine forums talking about how much I thought it sucked, I barely even give it a second thought.

+1 there

+2.

So what exactly hasn't been nerfed? Ground based vehicles?

 Sir Arun wrote:
So they nerf existing deathstars but introduce unbound which will in turn introduce 10^26 deathstar combinations in the coming months when people start brainstorming.

Also, nice Straken nerf. He was already bordering on uselessness. Along with Nids taking even more of a beating.

Seriously, what group of vet players will allow unbound if its getting abused? Are people so weak willed that they can't have some influence on the game types that they play?

 Leth wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Consider me a Vegan.

And overall I don't think most people are against deathstars - as the new edition will have them too.

It's about the points costs and the disadvantages that should be inherent in taking them.

Each edition has it's own, I'm just not interested in getting on the merry go round again.

Just doesnt make sense to devote time an energy(especially negative energy) to something that no longer affects you. I tried warmachine. Put down 500+ dollars into it. About 5 games in I realized I just despised the entire game, hated the rules, hated the lack of customization, hated how the themed lists with the warcaster I wanted to run sucked, hated how the models I like sucked and to get a decent force I had to use models that I hated the look of. Absolutely hated it.

I dont sit around going to warmachine forums talking about how much I thought it sucked, I barely even give it a second thought.

A lot of pent-up frustration at a design team for a game I used to find very enjoyable. I'll eventually flame out. My better posts have already been removed from this thread.

The current game has evolved considerably since the early days and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not married to any particular army and have played most of them in one form or another during different editions.

Back on topic - Does anyone know what Tyranid Hive Fleet Jes played in the WD? I don't recognize the coloring or was that just a custom coloring?

coredump wrote:
Here is to hoping Deshkar is trolling us....

There's still that tiny glimmer of hope!

Its tuesday and people they have seen the books, where are the scans?

 Sir Arun wrote:
So they nerf existing deathstars but introduce unbound which will in turn introduce 10^26 deathstar combinations in the coming months when people start brainstorming.

Also, nice Straken nerf. He was already bordering on uselessness. Along with Nids taking even more of a beating.

Folks who want to use the current crop of deathstars have largely already bought them. The soon to be created ones haven't been bought yet and we all know that buying is the best part of the Hobby!

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Consider me a Vegan.

And overall I don't think most people are against deathstars - as the new edition will have them too.

It's about the points costs and the disadvantages that should be inherent in taking them.

Each edition has it's own, I'm just not interested in getting on the merry go round again.

Just doesnt make sense to devote time an energy(especially negative energy) to something that no longer affects you. I tried warmachine. Put down 500+ dollars into it. About 5 games in I realized I just despised the entire game, hated the rules, hated the lack of customization, hated how the themed lists with the warcaster I wanted to run sucked, hated how the models I like sucked and to get a decent force I had to use models that I hated the look of. Absolutely hated it.

I dont sit around going to warmachine forums talking about how much I thought it sucked, I barely even give it a second thought.

+1 there

+2.

So what exactly hasn't been nerfed? Ground based vehicles?

Ground based vehicles have gotten super buffed dude. Now scoring, potentially have objective secured from the troops slot, might be giving transported dudes relentless while inside, harder to destroy....AWESOME SAUCE

Also dude I totally get the negativity, I have felt it myself over the years(you should have seen me after I saw flier spam at the start of 6th at nova). But then I decided I could either pack up run, or find ways to enjoy it. I realized that it was easier to change my approach and throughly enjoy the game, be excited and look towards ways I could have fun. In addition I dont assume that they are going to screw it up, for things I am hesitant about I wait for more information, for things I am positive about I think "that could be cool" but still wait for more information.

Also I choose to keep most negativety to myself. That gak is contagious and I always remember that there are other people on the other end of the internet. I dont want to be responsible for making anyone feel worse, Instead I try to create a positive outlook and environment I love this hobby and I know we got a lot of new people getting started and good or bad this hobby is still a positive in my life and I want to share that.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Its tuesday and people they have seen the books, where are the scans?

If I get mine tomorrow expect a deluge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Consider me a Vegan.

And overall I don't think most people are against deathstars - as the new edition will have them too.

It's about the points costs and the disadvantages that should be inherent in taking them.

Each edition has it's own, I'm just not interested in getting on the merry go round again.

Just doesnt make sense to devote time an energy(especially negative energy) to something that no longer affects you. I tried warmachine. Put down 500+ dollars into it. About 5 games in I realized I just despised the entire game, hated the rules, hated the lack of customization, hated how the themed lists with the warcaster I wanted to run sucked, hated how the models I like sucked and to get a decent force I had to use models that I hated the look of. Absolutely hated it.

I dont sit around going to warmachine forums talking about how much I thought it sucked, I barely even give it a second thought.

+1 there

+2.

So what exactly hasn't been nerfed? Ground based vehicles?

Ground based vehicles have gotten super buffed dude. Now scoring, potentially have objective secured from the troops slot, might be giving transported dudes relentless while inside, harder to destroy....AWESOME SAUCE

So essentially 5th ed parking lots again? awesome.

Wilson wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.
Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

What. bs. Nerfing Vector Strike? Why?
Nerfing *SMASH*?! Seriously?
Lets go ahead and nerf the Swarmlordstar a tiny bit more.

Oh, and the most overpowered Primaris? Yeah, we'll leave that alone.

Yeah... It does seem a little backwards.

I've never thought to myself " Woah... Those 2 attacks my Riptide just missed with where way too good. "

+I Never had any beef with Vector strike either - thought it was perfectly okay!

with the Prescience being the primaris still - I suppose as you can only cast one spell per unit per turn - it'll be easier to deny now thus reducing its impact on the game.

I like the nerf to SMASH attacks. As it is right now, walkers (even ones that are CC oriented) simply cannot go toe to toe with monstrous creatures. All it takes is one lucky roll by the MC and your walker is toast. Meanwhile, your futuristic robot designed to fight in close combat cannot take out an MC because it has 6 wounds.

Hopefully, we will see a resurgence in walkers with this new ruleset.

And, I am not anti-MC, I just don't like what the latest ruleset did to walkers.

Now, if GW could only make penitent engines worth taking.....

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Its tuesday and people they have seen the books, where are the scans?

If I get mine tomorrow expect a deluge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Consider me a Vegan.

And overall I don't think most people are against deathstars - as the new edition will have them too.

It's about the points costs and the disadvantages that should be inherent in taking them.

Each edition has it's own, I'm just not interested in getting on the merry go round again.

Just doesnt make sense to devote time an energy(especially negative energy) to something that no longer affects you. I tried warmachine. Put down 500+ dollars into it. About 5 games in I realized I just despised the entire game, hated the rules, hated the lack of customization, hated how the themed lists with the warcaster I wanted to run sucked, hated how the models I like sucked and to get a decent force I had to use models that I hated the look of. Absolutely hated it.

I dont sit around going to warmachine forums talking about how much I thought it sucked, I barely even give it a second thought.

+1 there

+2.

So what exactly hasn't been nerfed? Ground based vehicles?

Ground based vehicles have gotten super buffed dude. Now scoring, potentially have objective secured from the troops slot, might be giving transported dudes relentless while inside, harder to destroy....AWESOME SAUCE

So essentially 5th ed parking lots again? awesome.

Not at all dude, they still die to hull points like before, just harder to get one of shots that blow them up, skimmers no longer default to their cover saves, have to reduce fire power to get it. EVERYONE gained scoring so them getting scoring is no big deal.