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What I see from the new allies chart:
TauDar is gone.
Nids can ally with themselves (or you can field 12 wave serpents)
Nemesis warding staves got awesome (throw a priest in that paladin-star )
Orks can be friends with almost everyone!

Really the only change will be if you want to throw sisters or GK into an imperial army, it's a little easier now, and I feel like the most abusive combos probably already exist with IG and SM. The negative of course is not being able to run traitor guard, but maybe GW will re-release a lost and damned codex for some easy money.

 Vector Strike wrote:
found the entire page with the allies matrix. /tg/ delivers

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

Methinks the Dakka Dakka community needs to sit the feth down and think about that.

I agree with the sentiment. but putting all in one basket was too much, I think.

So anyone can ally with anyone! Interesting.

Wait Necrons and Tau are allies of Convenience??

Odd choice, but OK.....

 warriorpriest wrote:
Wait Necrons and Tau are allies of Convenience??

Odd choice, but OK.....

They're allies of convenience now as well.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 warriorpriest wrote:
Wait Necrons and Tau are allies of Convenience??

Odd choice, but OK.....

They're allies of convenience now as well.

Shows you how much 6th edition I play. Still odd choice either way.

 warriorpriest wrote:
Wait Necrons and Tau are allies of Convenience??

Odd choice, but OK.....

Same as 6th. Trons.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

The 'Dakka Dakka community' thinks no such thing. The opinions of individual posters here are a reflection of the opinions of those posters, not of the entirety of the community.



The complaints about all Imperials being able to ally are more to do with the imbalance created through this system rather than how it applies to the fluff. Sure, it's fluffy to allow Imperial Armies to all be Battle Brothers. But in a system where non-Imperial armies pretty much aren't Battle Brothers with anyone except themselves, that creates a fairly massive power divide.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

Methinks the Dakka Dakka community needs to sit the feth down and think about that.

I sat the feth down and thought about it.

I considered all the various imperium factions, the combinations that will now be possible from mixing and matching them as you want, I thought about all the folks that are going to enjoy that. Then I thought about my own army, my orks with IG allies, representing a Blood Axe army. I thought about the forge world tanks I'd bought for it, I considered the time and effort I'd put into it.

Then I considered how much effort it would have taken to realize that there are mercenary factions listed in the Necron, Dark Eldar and Ork books, coupled with the Gue'vesa and the renegade Imperial Guard regiments.

I wondered, in a book that's talked about the clear linear distinctions between the 'no holds barred' unbound vs the 'structured' battleforged armies, just how totally unbalanced an imperium army just became vs a xenos army, in it's choices and ability to min/max with other imperial faction, allies, knights and inquisition.

Because you're right, the previous allies chart did have some ass-stupid things in it. Taking notions of balance and ejecting them out the bloody window doesn't fix that.

Giving imperium armies a hottub love-in is great, but doing it whilst taking away from the other armies is yet again, further unbalance.

Also, who the feck says 'methinks' except the comic shop guy from the Simpsons?

 insaniak wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

The 'Dakka Dakka community' thinks no such thing. The opinions of individual posters here are a reflection of the opinions of those posters, not of the entirety of the community.



The complaints about all Imperials being able to ally are more to do with the imbalance created through this system rather than how it applies to the fluff. Sure, it's fluffy to allow Imperial Armies to all be Battle Brothers. But in a system where non-Imperial armies pretty much aren't Battle Brothers with anyone except themselves, that creates a fairly massive power divide.

You may be right, but I don't see it, honestly.

As far as power levels are concerned, what xenos faction is getting shafted here? Daemons still have their screamerstar and their FMC/Heldrake Circus, Deldar still exists, Necrons still have their tournament winning Flying Bakery, etc.

I can't really think of any xenos army that *depended* on allies to be a strong army. Taudar is a thing of the past, but both Eldar and Tau are god-tier armies on their own. Orks, maybe? Even with allies, I never saw ork armies getting anywhere in a competitive setting.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:


I sat the feth down and thought about it.

I considered all the various imperium factions, the combinations that will now be possible from mixing and matching them as you want, I thought about all the folks that are going to enjoy that. Then I thought about my own army, my orks with IG allies, representing a Blood Axe army. I thought about the forge world tanks I'd bought for it, I considered the time and effort I'd put into it.

Then I considered how much effort it would have taken to realize that there are mercenary factions listed in the Necron, Dark Eldar and Ork books, coupled with the Gue'vesa and the renegade Imperial Guard regiments.

I wondered, in a book that's talked about the clear linear distinctions between the 'no holds barred' unbound vs the 'structured' battleforged armies, just how totally unbalanced an imperium army just became vs a xenos army, in it's choices and ability to min/max with other imperial faction, allies, knights and inquisition.

Because you're right, the previous allies chart did have some ass-stupid things in it. Taking notions of balance and ejecting them out the bloody window doesn't fix that.

Giving imperium armies a hottub love-in is great, but doing it whilst taking away from the other armies is yet again, further unbalance.

Frankly, I think allies should either just not exist or they should feth it and just have zero ally tiers whatsoever, for pretty much this very reason. You want a blood-axe IG army? I want Black Templars to be BB with Daemons, so that I can play my army of Templars who's love of close-combat has corrupted them into joining Khorne and now they fight alongside Bloodletters. I want Tau to be able to ally with Tyranids so I can forge a narrative and have an army of Tau who broke away from the Empire and have a bunch of Tyranid organisms they experiment on and field-test on the field of battle.

Once you start delving into obscure, uncommon alliances like Black TemplarsXKhorne, or Blood Axes X Imperial Guard, why even bother having ally restrictions? 40K is a massive mythos with tons of material, you can probably find or make plausible fluff to justify any allied combination.

Also, who the feck says 'methinks' except the comic shop guy from the Simpsons?

I am the comicbook guy from the Simpsons.

I understand you are pissed because you can not now field your blood axes (you can of course against an opponent who is willing to let you do that, I would for example) but I don't see how just because an imperial can battle brother that means there power level is now unbalanced v a xenos army.

Eldar are still amazing, Tau are still amazing, Necrons are still amazing and now all xenos armies can ally with themselves (Tyranids).

Alright, I think this is something both groups (lovers and haters) have missed: scoring.

In 6th, the "one eye open" rule was NOT what stopped players from taking desperate allies - it was the fact that they couldn't score or contest objectives.

In 7th, EVERY unit is scoring. If that holds true, then taking desperate allies still works for effective games. Even CtA allies count as desperate, just with a deployment restriction.

We need more info but those traitor guard armies and blood axes will still be able to win games.

And it seems it all circles back around to not everyone liking what GW does rules wise and they dont care about the money you have previously spent, only the money you haven't.

TOF reporting now that FMC's cant charge the turn that they change there flight modes.

 BlaxicanX wrote:


Frankly, I think allies should either just not exist or they should feth it and just have zero ally tiers whatsoever, for pretty much this very reason.

I like the idea of an ally chart, it is an interesting opportunity to collect just a few minis from a range you like and also to keep your army 'vital' if the codex is getting on in years. It's just the implementation is so totally dire. They should just scrap the types of ally and either have Allies or CtA.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Also, who the feck says 'methinks' except the comic shop guy from the Simpsons?

I am the comicbook guy from the Simpsons.

Worst. Comeback. Ever.

bodazoka wrote:
TOF reporting now that FMC's cant charge the turn that they change there flight modes.

Would be an interesting balance to the new grounding test mechanic.

bodazoka wrote:
TOF reporting now that FMC's cant charge the turn that they change there flight modes.

He is just repeating them from somewhere else posting them.

And at least one (maelstrom) is provably false from the released scans of the rulebook.

I'm more interested in what if any changes have been made to vehicle facings for Flyers and any rules changes to beasts or anything that affects Necrons.

I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

Also hearing rumours they killed Spyderstar as ICs cannot join MC units.

On the other hand ... Spyders got a bit of a buff with their denial of the witch/ force thing but not really.

So any other new snipets posted yet?

Trying to watch the season finale of ink master.

Hollismason wrote:
I'm more interested in what if any changes have been made to vehicle facings for Flyers and any rules changes to beasts or anything that affects Necrons.

I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

Also hearing rumours they killed Spyderstar as ICs cannot join MC units.

On the other hand ... Spyders got a bit of a buff with their denial of the witch/ force thing but not really.

I think it's just single MC units? so you can join an IC to a spyder unit as long as there are 2 or more models maybe?

I hope so. Kind of sucks that we'll never at least if the rumours are correct have more than 1d6 Warp Charge and only nullify on 6s , which is actually almost impossible if someone has a level 3 Warp Charge.

This is if, you know the rumour of you having to roll a number of 6s equal to their successes.

 l0k1 wrote:
So, GKs will get lots of access to D strength Vortex powers. VORTEX. Lol What? That can't be right.

In 6th ed the vortex of doom is a WC 2, 12" Str 10 Ap1 small blast that if you fail your psychic check is centered on the psyker with no scatter. I don't think it'll be "D" strength in 7th. The grey knight's librarian has a WC1 version, but I doubt it'll stay the same WC level. I would bet WC 4, and even at WC 3 that is still pretty hard to make and if you fail you are killing yourself and your unit.

Also if by "lots of access" you mean hoping to roll a six on the psychic chart, nope.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

I sat the feth down and thought about it.

I considered all the various imperium factions, the combinations that will now be possible from mixing and matching them as you want, I thought about all the folks that are going to enjoy that. Then I thought about my own army, my orks with IG allies, representing a Blood Axe army. I thought about the forge world tanks I'd bought for it, I considered the time and effort I'd put into it.

Then I considered how much effort it would have taken to realize that there are mercenary factions listed in the Necron, Dark Eldar and Ork books, coupled with the Gue'vesa and the renegade Imperial Guard regiments.

I wondered, in a book that's talked about the clear linear distinctions between the 'no holds barred' unbound vs the 'structured' battleforged armies, just how totally unbalanced an imperium army just became vs a xenos army, in it's choices and ability to min/max with other imperial faction, allies, knights and inquisition.

Because you're right, the previous allies chart did have some ass-stupid things in it. Taking notions of balance and ejecting them out the bloody window doesn't fix that.

Giving imperium armies a hottub love-in is great, but doing it whilst taking away from the other armies is yet again, further unbalance.

Also, who the feck says 'methinks' except the comic shop guy from the Simpsons?

Blood Axe supplement where they can ally with the Imperium is in the rumour mill, at least. I dunno the reliability of it, though.

Also you can still field them, nothing is stopping that. All that you have to do is not have them within 12. for come the apocalypse. How is that different from now?

regarding the jink save for assault marines, it did say jump infantry right? In which case wraithknights etc don;t benefit because they are not infantry they are jump monstrous creatures. I can see how hard it would be to hit an assault marine in the air, but not a giant wraithknight!
Love the rule for sure, I've always love the idea of assault marines.

Honestly if the jink rule means you have to snap shot I am fine with a wraith knight getting it. Especially when they can just stick a toe in cover for a similar save

I do think this allies chart is better than the old one (even though I also wish that Orks had a higher alliance level with Imperial Guard for the Blood Axes among us).

However, I am disappointed that they decided to keep the same symmetrical alliance. I still think that an asymmetrical alliance chart, while a teeny-weeny bit more complicated, would have captured a lot of cool ideas better.

For example, you could have Primary Detachment IG being Battle Brothers with Space Marines (if they hadn't mashed them all together as Imperial). This would reflect the hero worship and reverence that the 'normal humans' have for the Space Marines, allowing them to embark on their vehicles and taking orders from them. Then you could have the Space Marines only having an alliance of convenience with the Imperial Guard, reflecting the fact that the marines aren't going to take orders from IG commanders, nor allow IG troops to tromp around in a Land Raider.

I think it would have had a lot more 'narrative' backing, with very, very little added complexity, but it's at least a bit better than last time.

I think lumping all the armies of the Imperium into one group is a mistake. Marines are Guardsmen and vice versa. There's no room for 'traitor Guard' in there, as it assumes that all people who aren't Marines/Sisters are always loyal all the time. Now Wolves are best buds with the Inquisition, and the Sisters are crushing on the Sister-slaying blood-ritual-enacting Grey Knights. This is stupid.

Trust GW to fix one problem by creating another.

^this. Helsreach is a good novelization of asymetrical allies. Grimauldus does what Grimauldus wants to do.

Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.