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My Sisters welcome their new Imperium overlords. Being able to use better transports is a killer.

bodazoka wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A couple of pages back, somebody posted a super-duper death star list. So my question is: is the new edition of 40k broken before it even hits the shelves?

That must be some kind of record.

As for allies, I will say this. If I got back into 40k (and it's as about as likely as me making a run for the white house in 2016) I would draw a line in the sand. No allies, no mutants, no abhumans, no psykers, no nothing that wasn't human. Racial purity would be the order of the day!

Super duper death star was quickly shot down a page after.

I'm forging a narrative here - those shots missed, and the death star rumbles on!

Don't necrons hate chaos? Why would they be allies of convenience with CSM? No renegade guard though... yay. No gue'vesa either.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm forging a narrative here - those shots missed, and the death star rumbles on!

haha I re roll my re rolls of my re rolls so my narrative wins!

 Yonan wrote:
Don't necrons hate chaos? Why would they be allies of convenience with CSM? No renegade guard though... yay. No gue'vesa either.

Because, as is becoming increasingly apparent as time goes on and with each new release, the people making 40K don't really understand what they're doing. To put it in 40K parlance, they're the Technomats of the Adeptus Mechanicus, hopelessly and endlessly attempting to recreate something without knowing how it works or even what it's supposed to do.


"Forge a Narrative"? "Cinematic Gaming"? These are the oft-recited catechisms of those who do what they do only because they know they have to, not because it makes any sense to them.

Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Two things:

1. Really? You "don't see" why people have problems with this? You've read those posts right, and possess the requisite reading comprehension to understand why people are saying what they're saying, yes? And you still don't see any reason, at all, whatsoever, why people might have some issues or concerns with the new allied chart?
2. Dismissing criticism as 'hate' is a bad thing to do. I'd advise against it.

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Not everyone hates everything. There will be different elements in each release some people don't like, and others that some people do - people are more likely to talk about what they don't like. This can be said for every release, things are different.

I like, and dislike some things. These are based on my own play experience, my meta, the army I play and my preferences - they won't be replicated by everyone.

Well honestly this 7Th is looking quite good and exactly what was asked by the playerbase (no i'm not joking). I'm actually starting to believe that they really took player's feedback into account when writing this. Let's check our wishlist for the new edition:

1) Deathstard addressed: Done. All existing stars were completely debunked one way or the other.
2) Assault buffed: Done. Jink saves changed and applied to jump inf is quite a big deal for assault. Difficult terrain to a flat -2 (and probably going to be ignored with MTC). Objectives being deployed before you choose your side, this is HUGE for assault armies, close to an auto win against gun lines.

Those were the most glaring problems of 6E. There is also the problem with battle brothers, supplements, dataslates and so on, which hasn't really been addressed, but you can't have everything.
There is also the point of the game balance, but that's mostly dependent on the codexes, what could be done via Rulebook has been done. Vehicle buff, walkers buff (smash nerf), diminishing return on psykers, FMC more survivable but less lethal.

My only fear left is the WS spam. That has yet to be correctly addressed and with double FOC you can spam them even more.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Two things:

1. Really? You "don't see" why people have problems with this? You've read those posts right, and possess the requisite reading comprehension to understand why people are saying what they're saying, yes? And you still don't see any reason, at all, whatsoever, why people might have some issues or concerns with the new allied chart?
2. Dismissing criticism as 'hate' is a bad thing to do. I'd advise against it.

Sure I can see some valid reasons for having critisisms but the constant repetition, the over-reaching, constant making of negative assumptions and the shooting down of and insulting of people who enjoy the hobby is taking it to far IMO.

I dont mind valid criticism when it is sticking to the criticism but when it just becomes general insults it falls into the hate category.

"I dont approve of the random nature of the card system I think it has serious potential to cause unbalanced missions" - Valid criticism

"What the feth is GW thinking, this is an obvious money grab by offering these cards that are just going to ruin the game. Seriously how much of an idiot is GW. Making people buy more than just the overpriced piece of crap that is the rulebook just to play the game is bs. God just further proof they hate the tyranids. Seriously I cant believe anyone who is not legally slowed could enjoy this game" - Hate and yes typing as an indirect insult is still an insult dont even try to pretend otherwise.

Also just a heads up I am pretty sure the Q and A from Nafka is a troll so just best to ignore the answers.

If you read the text above the chart, it sounds like they're finally moving the story on abit.

Paraphrasing, it says the allies from 6th may have blossomed (imperium) or fallen apart (taudar), and some armies would never fight each unless it was the end times.

-Well now its the end times so some armies are forging alliances (nids) (Chaoscrons). That with some hints from newer codices (DA - The lion) maybe points towards them mixing things up a bit in terms of fluff progression.

Although, maybe, just maybe - I'm being too hopeful lol

Don't get me started in GW's "Forging a Narrative" or "Cinematic Gaming".

As a Scriptwriter for film and video games, I can tell you they haven't got a clue how to do either.

Spoletta wrote:
Well honestly this 7Th is looking quite good and exactly what was asked by the playerbase (no i'm not joking). I'm actually starting to believe that they really took player's feedback into account when writing this. Let's check our wishlist for the new edition:

1) Deathstard addressed: Done. All existing stars were completely debunked one way or the other.
2) Assault buffed: Done. Jink saves changed and applied to jump inf is quite a big deal for assault. Difficult terrain to a flat -2 (and probably going to be ignored with MTC). Objectives being deployed before you choose your side, this is HUGE for assault armies, close to an auto win against gun lines.

Those were the most glaring problems of 6E. There is also the problem with battle brothers, supplements, dataslates and so on, which hasn't really been addressed, but you can't have everything.
There is also the point of the game balance, but that's mostly dependent on the codexes, what could be done via Rulebook has been done. Vehicle buff, walkers buff (smash nerf), diminishing return on psykers, FMC more survivable but less lethal.

My only fear left is the WS spam. That has yet to be correctly addressed and with double FOC you can spam them even more.

I may have missed it. Where have deathstars been addressed? Tau were removed from the deathstar equation but it seems like the Imperial armies are cleared to run deathstar.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Two things:

1. Really? You "don't see" why people have problems with this? You've read those posts right, and possess the requisite reading comprehension to understand why people are saying what they're saying, yes? And you still don't see any reason, at all, whatsoever, why people might have some issues or concerns with the new allied chart?
2. Dismissing criticism as 'hate' is a bad thing to do. I'd advise against it.

Nope sorry I dont see why (fine i wont use everyone) SOME people are (fine i wont use hate) DISLIKING it quite so much, its the allied chart its hardly like they have massively changed it so now the whole thing is bb or cta. Still I dont ally with anyone, in fact only 1 person at my local gaming club dos.

If some one would point of why people are disliking the allied chart and perhaps explain it in a rational way... I might understand it better...

Currently the imperium doesn't really have any death stars that are points efficient for what they do. Powers are not as reliable to cast for Eldar and Daemons nor will they be able to cast in as great of numbers.

Once the tau fire power gets reduced and the wave serpent fire power is also reduced(via jink saves nerf). Then the need for and ability of deathstars to dominate will decrease. The things that shut down death stars will be playable once that overwhelming firepower is not as strong.

 Shandara wrote:
My Sisters welcome their new Imperium overlords. Being able to use better transports is a killer.

Dare I dream? Repentia in a land raider..... they might actually get to use an assault vehicle.

 Leth wrote:
Currently the imperium doesnt really have any death stars that are points efficient for what they do.

Centurion-Star can be rather good if used well. But I agree, Xenos are far better at Death-Staring.

 AkharaVect wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Currently the imperium doesnt really have any death stars that are points efficient for what they do.

Centurion-Star can be rather good if used well. But I agree, Xenos are far better at Death-Staring.

It can be, but its only really good against death star armies. MSU and hordes make a mockery of that list, with the nerf to Tau shooting as well as Wave serpents and mission changes death stars will be on a significant decline.

Beast star and screamer star and jetseer council will still exist with this matrix. The key element here is how functional the psychic phase is when it comes to denying blessings.

For example - if the rule says you compare the successful psychic dice vs the successful deny dice to see if the power works, that's good.

If you have to block Every successful psychic dice to deny the witch, then powers will almost never get blocked which is bad.

 optometris wrote:
If you read the text above the chart, it sounds like they're finally moving the story on abit.

Paraphrasing, it says the allies from 6th may have blossomed (imperium) or fallen apart (taudar), and some armies would never fight each unless it was the end times.

-Well now its the end times so some armies are forging alliances (nids) (Chaoscrons). That with some hints from newer codices (DA - The lion) maybe points towards them mixing things up a bit in terms of fluff progression.

Although, maybe, just maybe - I'm being too hopeful lol

The only thing being moved along is the gravy train. A simple FAQ would have fixed more problems instead of making it a cash grab.

Spoletta wrote:
1) Deathstard addressed: Done. All existing stars were completely debunked one way or the other.

How are Beastpacks, Seer Councils and Centurionstars "debunked"? Am I missing something?

So now I can run Cypher in a Dark Angels list, right? Makes sense.

There are several existing Deathstars currently and other than the Tau Battle Brother change, there will still exist several Deathstars. For Imperials, there are several MORE deathstar builds than just Centurian-star.

The change to psychics have the potential to hinder Eldar/DE deathstars. Additionally, it will be very important to see how Hit and Run works.

Seer council gets hit harshly by the diminishing return of Psyker's dices. In 6E 2 farseers + 6 warlocks equal 12 WC worth of powers each turn. That same setup in 7E is around 5 WC each turn and i can probably single out and deny that one blessing i really don't want around. No i don't think it's going to work any more.

Spoletta wrote:
Seer council gets hit harshly by the diminishing return of Psyker's dices. In 6E 2 farseers + 6 warlocks equal 12 WC worth of powers each turn. That same setup in 7E is 4 WC each turn and i can probably single out and deny that one blessing i really don't want around. No i don't think it's going to work any more.

Uh, no - they still generate 12 dice +D6 more. If all they need are 2 powers (Protect, fortune) the unit will have ample dice to cast with, leaving enough for ghost helms to protect the farseers.

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Lets forge a Narrative. The USA allies with the Taliban to go against the British. This makes sense?

Would be interesting to see if Battle Brothers also share Warp Charges. So if I use a Farseer as an Ally in my DE army, will his Mastery Level count towards my WC pool? And how will it work with the other levels of Allies (convenience, desperate etc.)?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Seer council gets hit harshly by the diminishing return of Psyker's dices. In 6E 2 farseers + 6 warlocks equal 12 WC worth of powers each turn. That same setup in 7E is 4 WC each turn and i can probably single out and deny that one blessing i really don't want around. No i don't think it's going to work any more.

Uh, no - they still generate 12 dice +D6 more. If all they need are 2 powers (Protect, fortune) the unit will have ample dice to cast with, leaving enough for ghost helms to protect the farseers.

It's still quite a fair deal of curses i'm not getting afflicted with.

Also:

 Leth wrote:


...with the nerf to Tau shooting as well as Wave serpents...

Did i miss some rumor??

Spoletta wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Seer council gets hit harshly by the diminishing return of Psyker's dices. In 6E 2 farseers + 6 warlocks equal 12 WC worth of powers each turn. That same setup in 7E is 4 WC each turn and i can probably single out and deny that one blessing i really don't want around. No i don't think it's going to work any more.

Uh, no - they still generate 12 dice +D6 more. If all they need are 2 powers (Protect, fortune) the unit will have ample dice to cast with, leaving enough for ghost helms to protect the farseers.

It's still quite a fair deal of curses i'm not getting afflicted with.

Also:

 Leth wrote:


...with the nerf to Tau shooting as well as Wave serpents...

Did i miss some rumor??

MCs can not be joined by ICs. Most of the tau super abilities were from 1-2 riptides being joined by a buff commander. Without the ignore cover there they are much less strong and will have to rely on much less reliable methods of ignore cover while also not having weapons that are as good as destroying tanks. Sure they can still get in broadsides, but broadsides are not even in the same league for problems as the riptide.

Wave serpents are now having to further choose between durability and fire power. With so many points invested in wave serpents they need those to be a source of fire power. Get them to jink and then move on, or they cant risk firing their shield. Tau were the only real death star that had large amount of killing power on top of mobility.

In addition with a reduction in the reliability of the shooting armies to remove large numbers of models from the table MSU and horde armies will be able to function better, which is the natural counter to death star armies. In addition the change to progressive missions more so than end of game shenanigans severely reduces the ability of death stars to win. So an individual change is not necessarily going to directly impact the ability of deathstars to function but a mix of rules. Add in the reduce reliability of psychic powers and the increased dangers of the perils chart death stars relying on psykers are not going to be able to function as well.

Davor wrote:

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Lets forge a Narrative. The USA allies with the Taliban to go against the British. This makes sense?

No that dosnt make sence. I never thought eldar should be bb with tau and yet 6th ed they are. 7th there now not. It could just be me, guess i should go ask my local gaming club about it see if they can enlighten me..