40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**warboss**

ClockworkZion wrote:
warboss wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where there inclusion would be contrary to fluff.

Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters. That's 4. Not really "huge".

Also it seems Adamantium Will is a denial buff so it's not like Sisters are completely screwed.

Khornate Chaos and Black Templars.

Which are both part of codexes that have Psykers in them so I'm not counting them. I was only counting actual codexes.

Though I should add "Imperial Knights" to the list I guess.

I've bolded the key part of the debate that you're completely missing. You're trying to refute something while ignoring the key limitation central to the premise.

**Magc8Ball**

Hollismason wrote:
Magc8Ball wrote:
The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.

I think they do otherwise , why would some of those other armies have that listed? For example Chaos Space Marines or Space Marines. Who knows though but we do know they have Access to Malifec.

Also why would Eldar be listed?

Why wouldn't Eldar be listed? Farseers have access to the listed powers in addition to their own. In their case, there have been no changes except for the addition of daemonology (which I am totally using, BTW).

**ClockworkZion**

barnowl wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where there inclusion would be contrary to fluff.

Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters. That's 4. Not really "huge".
There's also various SM chapters and IG regiments that would fall under this, Khornate CSM's and Daemons, etc. Knights have no integrated psychic support (they could take allies, but having to take allies to counter a built in game phase feels...very wrong). But even just staying at 4, that's still pretty big.

If we really want to go down the road of listing every single faction that doesn't normally use psykers we could be here all day. There are only 6 Codexes (I'd forgotten Legion of the Damned and Imperial Knights before) with no Psykers in them. Now if you play a codex with Psykers and choose to not use them it's hardly the codexes fault now is it?

I would add Farsight enclave also. Still Tau but also a seperate codex now.

It's a codex supplement and needs the Tau codex to work, so it's not a separate codex and doesn't count.

**Red Corsair**

Vector Strike wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
BarBoBot wrote:
CSM get divination now! Dont have to rely on a single crimson slaughter sorcerer anymore!

Yea sadly the prescience revolution continues with even greater access

I still find it funny that so much attention is at using 2-3 powers to get a better invuln in here when invisibility literally just avoids being hit to begin with. Even had S D not been nerfed, it would have made seer councils immune.

Seriously no one else is concerned with the power ramp on invisibility?

My markerlights aren't.

I dare you to waste every mark light in your army for one or two hits just to boost one units BS to what....3... Yea I'd be very concerned as a tau player especially, you'd get rolled hard.

**Mr Morden**

Perils of the Warp
1. Dragged into the Warp: Psyker takes a leadership test, if passed suffers 1 wound or glancing hit no saves.if failed he is removed as a casualty and his unit takes d6 S6 AP1 hits. The hits come from the psyker for allocation
2. Mental Purge: Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. randomly select one power from the psyker. its lost for the rest of the game.
3. Power Drain: Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. if its the psychic phase, both players lose d3 warp charge points
4. Psychic Backlash: Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves.
5. Empyric Feedback: Psyker takes a leadership test. if failed Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. If passed no effect.
6. Warp Surge Psyker takes a leadership test. if failed Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. If passed psyker gains a 3+ invul, fleshbane, armour bane, and smash until the next friendly psychic phase.

**Hollismason**

Yeah, I honestly would not be surprised if the reference card is just absolutely wrong.

But I could also believe GW would open up the gates on Pyschic powers.

Also it's weird that Blood Angels don't get Pyromancy.

Also why would Space Wolves be listd.

**Sigvatr**

From /tg/, Warlord Tables:

Skilled fighter:
1. the warlord has the counter attack special rule.
2. the warlord has the furious charge special rule.
3. the warlord hase the outflank special rule.
4. the warlord gains 1 victory point for each charactermodell he kills in a challenge.
5. the warlord has the feel no pain special rule.
6.the warlord has the fearless and it will not die special rule.

Skilled Leader:
1. all allied units within 12" can use the warlords LD.
2. all enemys within 12" of the warlord have to use the lowest LD.
3.the warlord and all friendly units within 12" of the warlord have the move through cover special rule.
4. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" add +1" on run and assault moves.
5. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the shooting phase.
6. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the assault phase.

Skilled Tactican:
1.as long as your warlord is alive you can discard 2 mission objectives per turn instead of 1.
2. one use only: declare at the end of one of your turns. if you declare the warlord trait your enemy has to discard one random mission objective of his.
3.obtain a additional mission objective at the start of your first turn.
4. when declaring mission objectives in your first turn you can select to discard up to all your mission objectives and draw new ones.
5.as long as your warlord is alive you can reroll the victory point result that you get for each mission objective archived.
6. for all tactical secured tactical mission objectives x (x is 1-6) you archive you gain a additional victory point.

Seems salty to me. Especially since Skilled Tactician would do nothing if not playing Maelstrom.

**Mavnas**

Yeah, but one power you have to roll for on a second-rate discipline doesn't overly scare me especially since the defending player can deny that one key power.

**BarBoBot**

Kronk the CSM codex currently has limitations listed in the unit entries for which disciplines a psyker can take even though CSM as a whole have access to many of the different disciplines.

AM will probably get an errata, or there will be a reference chart in the back of the brb telling which units access which discipline like the hull point one in 6th gave older codexs their info.

**Vaktathi**

ClockworkZion wrote:

If we really want to go down the road of listing every single faction that doesn't normally use psykers we could be here all day. There are only 6 Codexes (I'd forgotten Legion of the Damned and Imperial Knights before) with no Psykers in them. Now if you play a codex with Psykers and choose to not use them it's hardly the codexes fault now is it?

We could also add Tempestus Scions to it

also the FW DKoK and Armored Battlegroup lists do not have access to them if one's inclined to include FW stuff.

That said, I'm not saying it's the codex's fault, I'm saying it's the fault of what appears to be the new core rules for making it so more more necessary. This game is nothing without its fluff, if this game was just another generic scifi lasergun setting with the same rules it would have died out long ago. There's lots of factions within armies that ostensibly have psyker support as options, but that wouldn't use them (i.e. a World Eaters CSM army). Magic is super powerful in Fantasy, and I don't want to see it become the same thing in 40k (which it looks like its trending towards), but Fantasy also has a lot fewer armies with aversions to magic/psychic powers.

Black Templars.

true, forgot they got that.

**WrentheFaceless**

Unsure why people are thinking the new rules wouldn't update what disciplines psykers could use in existing codexes if the card says they have access to these powers now...

**Super Newb**

Red Corsair wrote:
BarBoBot wrote:
CSM get divination now! Dont have to rely on a single crimson slaughter sorcerer anymore!

Yea sadly the prescience revolution continues with even greater access

But it's harder to cast and easier to block

**ClockworkZion**

warboss wrote:
I've bolded the key part of the debate that you're completely missing. You're trying to refute something while ignoring the key limitation central to the premise.

1. I didn't miss anything I saw it but didn't agree with the assessment. 2. I clearly counted by codex and even said so. 3. And if you dig deep enough into fluff about the only ones who never get Psykers (either of their own or by working with them) are Necrons. Oh wait, they teamed up with Blood Angels that one time. Even Khorne has had Psykers doing his bidding in the past (who else would preform the rituals to open the gates to let his Daemons into the universe?), he just doesn't like Psykers using their powers in battle (as it doesn't fit into his "martial prowess" theme). And we don't know if the MoK is getting changed or not in the next FAQ either. I could see them easily slapping "Adamantium Will" in there for them. So really we've got ONE faction that MIGHT be getting screwed but they're part of a CODEX that isn't. So yeah, not counting it.

**kronk**

BarBoBot wrote:
Kronk the CSM codex currently has limitations listed in the unit entries for which disciplines a psyker can take even though CSM as a whole have access to many of the different disciplines.

AM will probably get an errata, or there will be a reference chart in the back of the brb telling which units access which discipline like the hull point one in 6th gave older codexs their info.

It's almost as if you and I are assuming the same thing...

**Squidbot**

Sky's falling again? k.
SO, looks like I will get to summon Tuska. Sweeeet.

**ClockworkZion**

Hollismason wrote:
Also why would Space Wolves be listd.

Because Rune Priests are Psykers.

**Magc8Ball**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
Unsure why people are thinking the new rules wouldn't update what disciplines psykers could use in existing codexes if the card says they have access to these powers now...

You haven't played GW games for very long, have you...

Rumor has it that the Tzeentch chariot might actually be able to do something once 7th hits...

**Vector Strike**

Vaktathi wrote:I'm just imaging a Jetseer council with Shrouded +Jink+Fortune+Invisibility on it.

I'd just pack up I think.

Well, all these powers must be cast by Farseers... and it's harder to cast now. Having all these (not forgetting DtW) in one unit will be pretty hard.

Samurai_Eduh wrote:So my local GW guy just turned down a $100 bribe to give me my book today. Oh well, it seems other people got thiers so maybe they can share the goods.

Sucks, man. Looks like his job pays quite well... or he has no other in sight

Red Corsair wrote:I dare you to waste every mark light in your army for one or two hits just to boost one units BS to what....3... Yea I'd be very concerned as a tau player especially, you'd get rolled hard.

Depends on how many MLs I use... or I can kill everything else the guy has.

**Perfect Organism**

With even more things being only hit on a 6, ork Ballistic Skill is looking better all the time.

You don't need to see them if you aren't aiming anyway.

**Uriels_Flame**

Magc8Ball wrote:
The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.

demontalons wrote:
Im sure in the FAQ it will.

Wait, whuut????

You're getting a BRAND NEW EDITION and you're already asking for FAQ's????

Isn't that the point of this whole thing?

**Red Corsair**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
Unsure why people are thinking the new rules wouldn't update what disciplines psykers could use in existing codexes if the card says they have access to these powers now...

It is a reference card. That's it. It says nothing about all psychers in said faction having availability to said disciplines. For example, chaos with supplements have access to all but telekinesis. No FAQ is necessary because it sayd in the parent codex what they can get. The only exceptions are the demonology lore which have been leaked already as being available to all players with the exception of sanctic/maelific to CD/GK.

People are making huge leaps here.

I'd hope dispelling blessings is much easier then I am expecting or invisibility fishing is going to be the new trend. That is the single most abusive power to date that they have printed and that's saying something.

**Desubot**

To be fair maybe they will change some of the snap fire rules to allow blasts and templates.

**kronk**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
Magc8Ball wrote:
The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.

demontalons wrote:
Im sure in the FAQ it will.

Wait, whuut????

You're getting a BRAND NEW EDITION and you're already asking for FAQ's????

It's almost as if you're just reading every 5th post or are unfamiliar with 6th edition's release.

6th Edition also included psychic powers in the Basic Rule Book and then issued FAQ's stating what units/codecies could take which powers.

This is nothing new. Use fewer "?" in the future and spell "what" properly. Thank you.

**Red Corsair**

Vector Strike wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:I dare you to waste every mark light in your army for one or two hits just to boost one units BS to what....3... Yea I'd be very concerned as a tau player especially, you'd get rolled hard.

Depends on how many MLs I use... or I can kill everything else the guy has.

wow you know your right. That makes invisibility much more balanced doesn't it

Basically imagine Any major threat to your army, say imperial knights, and imagine not being able to use blasts or templates and needing 6's to hit it as it marches on your tau

**zammerak**

Wonder if we will be getting a new apocalypse book shortly after 7th drops. I hope not because I feel like I just got the last one

**Red Corsair**

Desubot wrote:
To be fair maybe they will change some of the snap fire rules to allow blasts and templates.

I doubt it or it will make fliers really strange. Even if they did, your bargaining with the icing on that power cake. Just needing 6's to hit in any phase is horrible rules design. But I am with you, lets at least hope I am wrong/overestimating.

**ClockworkZion**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
Magc8Ball wrote:
The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.

demontalons wrote:
Im sure in the FAQ it will.

Wait, whuut????

You're getting a BRAND NEW EDITION and you're already asking for FAQ's????

Isn't that the point of this whole thing?

We'll need FAQs to bring the books in line with the new ruleset. Just the psychic powers alone requires a massive bit of FAQing of the books.

**Perfect Organism**

A new edition of Apocalypse seems somewhat redundant. Most of the rules are now in the main rulebook and dataslates seem like a better way to sell the unit rules.

**WisdomLS**

I believe the psykic reference card is just showing which power can be use within the faction not that all psyker in the faction can use all those powers.

CSM have access to divination through the Crimson Slaughter artifact, Eldar can use a force weapon with Eldrad so they are listed as having access.
The codex state which schools you can choose from, the exception being that we have seen a specific entry in the new book stating that all psykers can use Daemonoligy unless it is stated otherwise in their entry.

Lets assume that the forthcoming ork codex has a new discipline for them to use.

**WrentheFaceless**

Well you could always snapfire templates, but blasts...meh