40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**tag8833**

ClockworkZion wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
rabidguineapig wrote:
That's what I'm saying, can he really be grounded reliably? Most people target him with the grimoire so more often than not he has a 2+++ so good luck hitting on 6's and getting a wound through on that. On top of it, grounding is still a 3+ and only once. Even if you fail grimoire he still has a 4++ and you can always fly him off the table if you fail and don't want him to get picked off.

You don't even want him on the ground, and he probably never will be more often than not in the new system. Even Tau would stuggle to bring him down/hurt him when his buffs go off. Kind of ridiculous...

Lootas can ground him reliably thanks to volume of fire.

No they can't. They can make him take a single 3+ roll for grounding. And he gets to reroll that. Plus Iron Arm is now a fixed +3 to toughness.

Sorry, they can reliably wound him because they fill the sky with more saves than he should normally make. Even with Iron Arm (which is deniable, and has to be rolled on the table to get).

I think you missed something important. 1 Grounding check per turn, not per wound. That means they can make him take a single 3+ roll for grounding per turn. He can re-roll that if he uses his reroll there. The odds of failing a rerollable 3+ is only 11.11%. So Lootas, if they manage to cause a wound, have a 11.11% to ground Fateweaver.

**slaede**

My question got buried, but I'd like to know if FMC's score while swooping if anyone knows, pls. Thx.

**MarkyMark**

I do have two burning chariots, and cut up the third to make something else but that can still be used as one I guess, time to dust them off!.

**Sigvatr**

About chariots...so...basically, I can redirect any lascannon hit to, e.g., my Overlord riding the CCB and his 3++? Uhm...

**Super Newb**

MadmanMSU wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
Super Newb wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
Got my book if any unanswered questions fire away.

Can you verify this? I've heard psykers inside transports can only cast witchfires. Is this true? As in can they not even bless their own unit which is with them inside the transport??

Psykers embarked on a transport cannot manifest any other kind of power than witchfire

Are blessings magically witchfires now? Or is that just wishful thinking?

LOL.

**jamesk1973**

MarkyMark wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
What about focus fire? Any changes? Still in there?

Big change, removed from the book...

So, it reverted back to 5th edition default for shooting at units in cover. Interesting.

**SeanDrake**

slaede wrote:
I just need to know if an FMC in swoop mode can score/contest objectives, prz.

Swooping FMC or zooming flyer cannot score

**slaede**

SeanDrake wrote:
slaede wrote:
I just need to know if an FMC in swoop mode can score/contest objectives, prz.

Swooping FMC or zooming flyer cannot score

You are very kind.

**MarkyMark**

slaede wrote:
My question got buried, but I'd like to know if FMC's score while swooping if anyone knows, pls. Thx.

It has been answered before buddy, no it is not scoring.

**Sasori**

MarkyMark wrote:
So the burning chariot is fixed. Riders always count as stationary when firing weapons.

Riders CANNOT disembark from the chariot.

IF either rider or chariot is killed both are removed from play.

When shooting at chariots keep the number of successful hits that have been caused, keep the dice in different wound pools based on str and ap basically.

The player controlling the chariot then allocates each hit pool to the rider OR the chariot of the cloest model in the unit, if more then one pool the attacking player decides what pool to resolve first,

Chariots can be locked in combat, Chariots fight like infantry models, and can sweeping advance, pile in console etc (unless stunned)

In CC against a chariot decide if attacking chariot or rider, model by model basis, always by the riders WS though. You use the chariots FA though

Hammer of wrath from chariot is d6 str 6 ap- can re roll charge distance as well!, rider has fearless and relentless and can fire overwatch but not with a weapon on the chariot.

That's some interesting changes. My overlord getting killed from a lucky shot to the chariot seems pretty silly, but being a lot better in CC is also a boon. Also, not disembarking is really Awkward.

**rigeld2**

Leth wrote:
You can buy venomthropes for cover as well as grenades. With enough elite slots you can buy them one each without losing out. two units of 10 termagaunts now opens up everything so whats that 100 points to get 3 of every other slot? Yea not seeing a lot of points spent in troops to make it work. In addition you can spam zoanthropes now for easy synapse and some of the cheapest access to 2 warp charges.

two x flying hive tyrants with double leech
3x venomthrope
2x zoanthrope
4x 10 man termagaunts
7x carnifex with adrenal split however you want
50 points to work with.

Not the best list, but it gives you an idea of what you can work with. Or you can go 3-6 exocrines and a skyshield landing pad with zoanthropes and venomthropes for a 2+ cover 4+ invul all the time potentially with FNP. The options go on for nidzilla.

Oh boy - 7 Carnifexes that will do jack all over the course of the game. Well built list. Truly you understand the ins and outs of the Tyranid codex.
hint: the Shrouded bubble is pretty small. And having 2 Synapse is just a bad idea (the 2 Flyrants can't be counted on because they move fast).
But that's okay. You schooled me well.

**mercury14**

jamesk1973 wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Forests no longer grant cover then? Uh? In the grim future of the 41st millenium, there are only ruins. And craters.

I felt despair also, for a moment.

Then I thought, no one is forcing us to use multistory ruins.

What if I take my forest terrain (formerly area terrain) and glue a few low lying pieces of debris to it?

I then have an "area" of ruins. Simple 4+ cover save...until the D weapon arrives that is...

If focus fire is unchanged it probably wont matter. It will be impossible in most circumstances to get many models hidden. People will just shoot the guys who aren't obscured......

Dude with the book: is focus fire changed?

**streamdragon**

jamesk1973 wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
What about focus fire? Any changes? Still in there?

Big change, removed from the book...

So, it reverted back to 5th edition default for shooting at units in cover. Interesting.

I think someone said earlier that cover is on a model by model basis now, and you still remove from the front first.

So make sure your special weapons dudes are in the trees I guess?

**Voodoo_Chile**

Sasori wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:
So the burning chariot is fixed. Riders always count as stationary when firing weapons.

Riders CANNOT disembark from the chariot.

IF either rider or chariot is killed both are removed from play.

When shooting at chariots keep the number of successful hits that have been caused, keep the dice in different wound pools based on str and ap basically.

The player controlling the chariot then allocates each hit pool to the rider OR the chariot of the cloest model in the unit, if more then one pool the attacking player decides what pool to resolve first,

Chariots can be locked in combat, Chariots fight like infantry models, and can sweeping advance, pile in console etc (unless stunned)

In CC against a chariot decide if attacking chariot or rider, model by model basis, always by the riders WS though. You use the chariots FA though

Hammer of wrath from chariot is d6 str 6 ap- can re roll charge distance as well!, rider has fearless and relentless and can fire overwatch but not with a weapon on the chariot.

That's some interesting changes. My overlord getting killed from a lucky shot to the chariot seems pretty silly, but being a lot better in CC is also a boon. Also, not disembarking is really Awkward.

It'll be interesting how they FAQ Reanimation Protocols around this (if they do).
Given that if the rider eats a Lascannon hit and dies, he still has his Reanimation Protocol at the end of the phase. Does the Chariot die and then he can get back up without it or does it wait for the Everliving token to be removed? Or illogically do both come back if the RP roll is successful.

I hope GW have put the year without FAQ to good use cause if not it's going to get complicated.

**mercury14**

streamdragon wrote:
jamesk1973 wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
What about focus fire? Any changes? Still in there?

Big change, removed from the book...

So, it reverted back to 5th edition default for shooting at units in cover. Interesting.

I think someone said earlier that cover is on a model by model basis now, and you still remove from the front first.

So make sure your special weapons dudes are in the trees I guess?

So a unit in forest with modeled trees gets no cover save at all except for individual models which happen to be partially obscured? That seems silly.

**Vector Strike**

MarkyMark wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
What about focus fire? Any changes? Still in there?

Big change, removed from the book...

To add, a user from Warseer posted that you deal with cover as model per model basis. If a squad of orks has 3 behind ruins and 2 exposed, these 2 get no cover at all. Now, if you make a look out sir roll and the new target has a cover save... will it be able to use it?

MarkyMark wrote:Ovesa star is dead mate, you cannot join IC's to a unit with MC's in it there is no exception.

Thats a codex question rather then rule book, it is not covered in the BRB.

Ok. Never used O'Vesa star, just asking because it makes impossible to use the 'the Eight' bodyguard complete unit

. Gonna wait for a FAQ

Regarding the Relics, I think this is a broader situation. SM, Tau, Eldar and CSM have supplements that change the selection of Relics. If we'll be able to cherry-pick Relics from the main codex and from its supplements... it would be glorious, lol.

**streamdragon**

mercury14 wrote:
streamdragon wrote:
jamesk1973 wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
What about focus fire? Any changes? Still in there?

Big change, removed from the book...

So, it reverted back to 5th edition default for shooting at units in cover. Interesting.

I think someone said earlier that cover is on a model by model basis now, and you still remove from the front first.

So make sure your special weapons dudes are in the trees I guess?

So a unit in forest with modeled trees gets no cover save at all except for individual models which happen to be partially obscured? That seems silly.

Yes and no. I think the "Citadel Wood" model gets special rules giving everyone in the area a 5+ cover save. (I.e. the old cover rules; I suspect few groups will have issues using those same rules for their non-Citadel Wood models)

You have a unit of 10 dudes, 5 in the trees and 5 out of the trees. The 5 dudes out of the trees are closest to the enemy unit shooting at them. Those 5 dudes would not benefit from cover saves against enemy shooting, and would be the first 5 casualties removed.

At least in my understanding, keep in mind I don't have my book yet.

**MarkyMark**

Voodoo_Chile wrote:
Sasori wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:
So the burning chariot is fixed. Riders always count as stationary when firing weapons.

Riders CANNOT disembark from the chariot.

IF either rider or chariot is killed both are removed from play.

When shooting at chariots keep the number of successful hits that have been caused, keep the dice in different wound pools based on str and ap basically.

The player controlling the chariot then allocates each hit pool to the rider OR the chariot of the cloest model in the unit, if more then one pool the attacking player decides what pool to resolve first,

Chariots can be locked in combat, Chariots fight like infantry models, and can sweeping advance, pile in console etc (unless stunned)

In CC against a chariot decide if attacking chariot or rider, model by model basis, always by the riders WS though. You use the chariots FA though

Hammer of wrath from chariot is d6 str 6 ap- can re roll charge distance as well!, rider has fearless and relentless and can fire overwatch but not with a weapon on the chariot.

That's some interesting changes. My overlord getting killed from a lucky shot to the chariot seems pretty silly, but being a lot better in CC is also a boon. Also, not disembarking is really Awkward.

It'll be interesting how they FAQ Reanimation Protocols around this (if they do).
Given that if the rider eats a Lascannon hit and dies, he still has his Reanimation Protocol at the end of the phase. Does the Chariot die and then he can get back up without it or does it wait for the Everliving token to be removed? Or illogically do both come back if the RP roll is successful.

I hope GW have put the year without FAQ to good use cause if not it's going to get complicated.

It is in the BRB mate, if you pass the reainmation test you come back with 1 HP and 1 wound

**ClockworkZion**

tag8833 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
rabidguineapig wrote:
That's what I'm saying, can he really be grounded reliably? Most people target him with the grimoire so more often than not he has a 2+++ so good luck hitting on 6's and getting a wound through on that. On top of it, grounding is still a 3+ and only once. Even if you fail grimoire he still has a 4++ and you can always fly him off the table if you fail and don't want him to get picked off.

You don't even want him on the ground, and he probably never will be more often than not in the new system. Even Tau would stuggle to bring him down/hurt him when his buffs go off. Kind of ridiculous...

Lootas can ground him reliably thanks to volume of fire.

No they can't. They can make him take a single 3+ roll for grounding. And he gets to reroll that. Plus Iron Arm is now a fixed +3 to toughness.

Sorry, they can reliably wound him because they fill the sky with more saves than he should normally make. Even with Iron Arm (which is deniable, and has to be rolled on the table to get).

I think you missed something important. 1 Grounding check per turn, not per wound. That means they can make him take a single 3+ roll for grounding per turn. He can re-roll that if he uses his reroll there. The odds of failing a rerollable 3+ is only 11.11%. So Lootas, if they manage to cause a wound, have a 11.11% to ground Fateweaver.

And I think you're misreading that post. The wound part was a correction in the second post.

**mercury14**

streamdragon wrote:

So a unit in forest with modeled trees gets no cover save at all except for individual models which happen to be partially obscured? That seems silly.

Yes and no. I think the "Citadel Wood" model gets special rules giving everyone in the area a 5+ cover save. (I.e. the old cover rules; I suspect few groups will have issues using those same rules for their non-Citadel Wood models)

You have a unit of 10 dudes, 5 in the trees and 5 out of the trees. The 5 dudes out of the trees are closest to the enemy unit shooting at them. Those 5 dudes would not benefit from cover saves against enemy shooting, and would be the first 5 casualties removed.

At least in my understanding, keep in mind I don't have my book yet.

**Samurai_Eduh**

mercury14 wrote:
streamdragon wrote:
jamesk1973 wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
What about focus fire? Any changes? Still in there?

Big change, removed from the book...

So, it reverted back to 5th edition default for shooting at units in cover. Interesting.

I think someone said earlier that cover is on a model by model basis now, and you still remove from the front first.

So make sure your special weapons dudes are in the trees I guess?

So a unit in forest with modeled trees gets no cover save at all except for individual models which happen to be partially obscured? That seems silly.

Yeah, thats my biggest WTF right now.

**Sasori**

Can you assault Via Outflank now?

I'm not sure if the assault from reserves has been covered and this is a rather monstrous thread.

Thanks Mark for the Necron info. I'm a bit undecided on the Chariot, especially since you can't disembark.

**Voodoo_Chile**

MarkyMark wrote:
Voodoo_Chile wrote:
Sasori wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:
So the burning chariot is fixed. Riders always count as stationary when firing weapons.

Riders CANNOT disembark from the chariot.

IF either rider or chariot is killed both are removed from play.

When shooting at chariots keep the number of successful hits that have been caused, keep the dice in different wound pools based on str and ap basically.

The player controlling the chariot then allocates each hit pool to the rider OR the chariot of the cloest model in the unit, if more then one pool the attacking player decides what pool to resolve first,

Chariots can be locked in combat, Chariots fight like infantry models, and can sweeping advance, pile in console etc (unless stunned)

In CC against a chariot decide if attacking chariot or rider, model by model basis, always by the riders WS though. You use the chariots FA though

Hammer of wrath from chariot is d6 str 6 ap- can re roll charge distance as well!, rider has fearless and relentless and can fire overwatch but not with a weapon on the chariot.

That's some interesting changes. My overlord getting killed from a lucky shot to the chariot seems pretty silly, but being a lot better in CC is also a boon. Also, not disembarking is really Awkward.

It'll be interesting how they FAQ Reanimation Protocols around this (if they do).
Given that if the rider eats a Lascannon hit and dies, he still has his Reanimation Protocol at the end of the phase. Does the Chariot die and then he can get back up without it or does it wait for the Everliving token to be removed? Or illogically do both come back if the RP roll is successful.

I hope GW have put the year without FAQ to good use cause if not it's going to get complicated.

It is in the BRB mate, if you pass the reainmation test you come back with 1 HP and 1 wound

Wow I'm really surprised GW had that covered. Thank you very much for answering these questions.

**Dracos**

What about assaulting out of transports, or disembarking/embarking? Any change to how one disembarks/embarks and how far one can move after? Shooting out of moving vehicles, any change there?

**streamdragon**

mercury14 wrote:
streamdragon wrote:

So a unit in forest with modeled trees gets no cover save at all except for individual models which happen to be partially obscured? That seems silly.

Yes and no. I think the "Citadel Wood" model gets special rules giving everyone in the area a 5+ cover save. (I.e. the old cover rules; I suspect few groups will have issues using those same rules for their non-Citadel Wood models)

You have a unit of 10 dudes, 5 in the trees and 5 out of the trees. The 5 dudes out of the trees are closest to the enemy unit shooting at them. Those 5 dudes would not benefit from cover saves against enemy shooting, and would be the first 5 casualties removed.

At least in my understanding, keep in mind I don't have my book yet.

Ah, so there's 5+ area cover after all

Someone with the book would have to verify. I tried to search, but either I dreamed the post talking about terrain effects for specific GW terrain or search is broken.

**Samurai_Eduh**

mercury14 wrote:
streamdragon wrote:

So a unit in forest with modeled trees gets no cover save at all except for individual models which happen to be partially obscured? That seems silly.

Yes and no. I think the "Citadel Wood" model gets special rules giving everyone in the area a 5+ cover save. (I.e. the old cover rules; I suspect few groups will have issues using those same rules for their non-Citadel Wood models)

You have a unit of 10 dudes, 5 in the trees and 5 out of the trees. The 5 dudes out of the trees are closest to the enemy unit shooting at them. Those 5 dudes would not benefit from cover saves against enemy shooting, and would be the first 5 casualties removed.

At least in my understanding, keep in mind I don't have my book yet.

Ah, so there's 5+ area cover after all

**Vector Strike**

mercury14 wrote:

Ah, so there's 5+ area cover after all

IIRC, any kind of terrain that obscures 25% or more of a model gives it 5+ cover now. What we lost was the type of terrain called 'Area Terrain' - the one that just having a toe inside gave 5+ cover AND +2 if you GtG. There isn't any kind of auto-cover now.
Oh and the disappearance of Area Terrain throws away the situation of having +1 or +2 for GtG in Ruins with Area Terrain. The only way to get +2 cover when GtG is with craters, barricades/defence lines or made-up terrain

**Nostromodamus**

Next edition will require you to use the Realm of Battle as your table...

**MarkyMark**

What was area terrain before is now difficult terrain, you have to be 25% obsurced to get 5+ cover (no +2 bonus for GTG either) and of course difficult terrain tests.

Outflank and assault from vehicles has been answered many times before people.

**Vector Strike**

Sasori wrote:Can you assault Via Outflank now?

I'm not sure if the assault from reserves has been covered and this is a rather monstrous thread.

Thanks Mark for the Necron info. I'm a bit undecided on the Chariot, especially since you can't disembark.

Cannot charge from any kind of reserves.

Dracos wrote:What about assaulting out of transports, or disembarking/embarking? Any change to how one disembarks/embarks and how far one can move after? Shooting out of moving vehicles, any change there?

Unless it is an Assault Vehicle, can't charge from it even if Stationary. (buildings are ok). No other changes