40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**vadersson**

Lobukia wrote:
Really surprised they took pinning away from sniper rifles. Bummer

Hmm, may have to have my Pathfinders do something besides fire Markerlights now...

This could also finally be a reason for Fire Warriors to take Pulse Carbines instead of Rifles too. Nah, that is what the Gun Drones are for.

So we lose overwatch if we GtG but we gain by being a really good source of pinning. Interesting trade...

For the Greater Good!
Duncan

**Wilson**

Lobukia wrote:
Really surprised they took pinning away from sniper rifles. Bummer

Really?!

man they weren't joking around when they said read every detail!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Desubot wrote:
Lobukia wrote:
Really surprised they took pinning away from sniper rifles. Bummer

Its about the dumbest change.

What happens to 1 sniper slowing down an entire army. :/

losing rending also sucks as well.

IT LOST WHAT?!

**Magc8Ball**

The nice thing about the Jink change is that you don't already have to be moving in order to get it. That means that I am going to be far less paranoid about getting first turn with my Wave Serpents.

**shade1313**

ClockworkZion wrote:
shade1313 wrote:
pizzaguardian wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Off to pick up my book(s) and start my reviews. You kids have fun.

No ! Don't go! We love you!

Go, be off with you. I don't love you, not at all.

You're going full tsundere there. Probably best to not do that.

I don't even know what that means, soooo.

Go away, get your stuff. Geez.

**mercury14**

So a Warlock can cast conceal and then destructor in a turn? And then chuck a spear?

**shade1313**

mercury14 wrote:
So a Warlock can cast conceal and then destructor in a turn? And then chuck a spear?

I have not yet found any reason to believe otherwise. It's going to come down to deciding what are the best uses for your dice.

**Vector Strike**

shade1313 wrote:EDIT TO ADD: I wonder how long it'll be before some TFG tries to claim that his warlock can use conceal, reveal, destructor AND renewer all in one turn from the same WL, though.

This more or less happened when the Eldar codex came out (the conceal/reveal being able to be cast at the same time by a single warlock, IIRC). I don't know why, because the codex clearly says each cast must choose only one of the options before making the roll. What can be discussed is if conceal/reveal is an entire power - so, if a warlock tries to cast it as Reveal, can another cast it as Conceal? I don't think so, as both have the same 'psychic slot'

vadersson wrote:More excellent points here. I hope (but doubt) that GW is listening.

Based on what I am reading here (not having really played 40K more than 2 turns) is that the game is getting some rule bloat and taking longer to play. I think they will need to address that someday, but unfortunately, a quicker game generally requires less models (i.e. lower sales.) If they could simplify the game to make an 1850 pt battle take 2 hrs or less that would be awesome. But at the same time, they don't want to lose the flavor of Warhammer 40K.

Right now 40K has quite a few computer projects out there. Full Control has done a GREAT Space Hulk game that mirrors the board game very well. (So much so I might just sell my 3rd edition set.) There is also a new 3rd person shooter coming. More importantly Slitherine Games is doing 40,000 Armageddon, which will be a turn based strategy game with Orks, Guard, and 3 or 4 chapters of Space Marines. They are using a modified Panzer Crops engine, which is pretty popular. And I think the game will be on Steam. All those things should help get more people exposure to 40K. Still, it is no Dawn of War, but at least these are more possibilities.

Overall I agree that GW needs better social media. Do they even have a Twitter account? I have always wondered why they don't host their own forums too. (Of course this thread probably is a good example of why they don't...)

Thanks,
Duncan

To add, there's a small action game called Kill-Team in steam now. It was launched one week before Space Marine, but only for consoles.
A Space Wolf game is coming as well (but it's weird), as a FPS space hulk with deathwing. Oh, and a chess game!

shade1313 wrote:The fact that Ahriman now gets FIVE powers, that I kind of love. It'll be even nicer if the little chart of which army gets which disciplines (which shows CSM get Div...not TK, for some odd reason, though) gets me a FAQ for the CSM codex allowing the blasted head of the whole Corvidae cult to use his cult's signature powers.

Dunno... looks like saw more on this and the rulebook has no extra permissions on such matters. CSM has Divination marked because of Crimson Slaughter supplement, as SM has it too because of Tigurius and Mantis Warriors (FW). I won't bet on CSM getting more Divination before a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons supplement

**Peregrine**

Lobukia wrote:
Really surprised they took pinning away from sniper rifles. Bummer

Remember, GW doesn't play the same game the rest of us play. They probably had one game where one of the authors brought a sniper-heavy list and won, so their opponent nerfed sniper rifles to "fix" the problem. The fact that everyone else considers sniper rifles laughably weak and only uses them when they're voluntarily crippling their own list to go easy on a newbie doesn't matter to them.

You'll see the same thing happening with psykers: the WD article talks about how psykers needed to be more powerful because everyone at GW always uses things like melee captains and chaplains instead. Meanwhile out in the real world librarians are pretty much the only HQ in C:SM unless you're taking a bike army, and the new rules make powerful units even more powerful.

**tag8833**

Auswin wrote:
I agree that a new edition with more freedom opens up chances for new players. It becomes more "I like these kits" and not "I have to adhere to these rules -- what kits can I have?"

I don't get this all. When I was a new player, I wanted to start my collection, and was somewhat overwhelmed. The FOC guided me, and helped me pick out my first models. If I was interested in playing a game, and I asked how do I build an army? And they told me, pick whatever models you want, it would have discouraged me strongly. Structure is important to gameplay. Removing structure removes balance, fun, and New Player friendlyness.

Imagine if the next move was to do away with turn order. Instead of Reserves-Move-Psychic-Shoot-Assault, the game became move units whenever you feel like it. Bring in reserves at any time. Assault first and then shoot.

Gameplay would suffer in the same way that list building and collecting would suffer under an unbound system. Would it be easier to learn the rules? Probably. Would it be more friendly to newer players? Certainly not.

**Desubot**

tag8833 wrote:
Auswin wrote:
I agree that a new edition with more freedom opens up chances for new players. It becomes more "I like these kits" and not "I have to adhere to these rules -- what kits can I have?"

I don't get this all. When I was a new player, I wanted to start my collection, and was somewhat overwhelmed. The FOC guided me, and helped me pick out my first models. If I was interested in playing a game, and I asked how do I build an army? And they told me, pick whatever models you want, it would have discouraged me strongly. Structure is important to gameplay. Removing structure removes balance, fun, and New Player friendlyness.

Imagine if the next move was to do away with turn order. Instead of Reserves-Move-Psychic-Shoot-Assault, the game became move units whenever you feel like it. Bring in reserves at any time. Assault first and then shoot.

Gameplay would suffer in the same way that list building and collecting would suffer under an unbound system. Would it be easier to learn the rules? Probably. Would it be more friendly to newer players? Certainly not.

Thats where your wrong.

Its not a game. its not about the game play.

its about collecting.

forge your narrative harder!

**Garion**

shade1313 wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
So a Warlock can cast conceal and then destructor in a turn? And then chuck a spear?

I have not yet found any reason to believe otherwise. It's going to come down to deciding what are the best uses for your dice.

Another thing that I noticed is that you can "jump" from psyker unit to psyker unit while casting without completing the phase for one unit and then move to another one like you do for shooting for example.

So, for example, you can cast one power with your Farseer, cast another power with a Spiritseer in another unit and the cast another one with that first Farseer

**TheKbob**

shade1313 wrote:

EDIT TO ADD: I wonder how long it'll be before some TFG tries to claim that his warlock can use conceal, reveal, destructor AND renewer all in one turn from the same WL, though.

Just tell him he can just conceal, not reveal... Make sure they know...

Spoiler:

**Lobokai**

Garion wrote:
shade1313 wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
So a Warlock can cast conceal and then destructor in a turn? And then chuck a spear?

I have not yet found any reason to believe otherwise. It's going to come down to deciding what are the best uses for your dice.

Another thing that I noticed is that you can "jump" from psyker unit to psyker unit while casting without completing the phase for one unit and then move to another one like you do for shooting for example.

So, for example, you can cast one power with your Farseer, cast another power with a Spiritseer in another unit and the cast another one with that first Farseer

I expected as much... thought I guess I wouldn't have been surprised if they made you finish one caster at a time.

**Compel**

Peregrine wrote:

Remember, GW doesn't play the same game the rest of us play. They probably had one game where one of the authors brought a sniper-heavy list and won, so their opponent nerfed sniper rifles to "fix" the problem. The fact that everyone else considers sniper rifles laughably weak and only uses them when they're voluntarily crippling their own list to go easy on a newbie doesn't matter to them.

You'll see the same thing happening with psykers: the WD article talks about how psykers needed to be more powerful because everyone at GW always uses things like melee captains and chaplains instead. Meanwhile out in the real world librarians are pretty much the only HQ in C:SM unless you're taking a bike army, and the new rules make powerful units even more powerful.

Yeah, I think you're completely correct. And that second comment just completely mindboggled me when I first read it. Even the people I know who probably never read an actual tactics article in their life never bothered taking unnamed captains. It was either a Librarian, Special Character (Sicarious was popular with a few mates) and the absolute most you saw a chaplain was one with a jump pack leading a 10 man assault marine squad.

And these were uncompetitive players.

**angelofvengeance**

So what do Sniper rifles and the like have now?

**adamsouza**

rabidguineapig wrote:
If anyone tried to tell me that my battle brother wasn't able to disembark from an ally's transport, I'd smack them upside the head. That doesn't need a FAQ, just some common sense...

That was the exact same train of thought I had.

"What?"
SMACK !!!
"You win. I can't enjoy playing against this level of stupid"

**Alkasyn**

My email says that there are only 280 Limited Edition 7th Ed. bundles left.

**Magc8Ball**

Is it just me, or do characters no longer have Precision Shots/Strikes?

**Garion**

angelofvengeance wrote:
So what do Sniper rifles and the like have now?

Precision Shoot on a 6 to hit (not if you snap shoot)
a flat 4+ to wound (it's not poison)
ap2 on a 6 to wound
F4 against vehicles

**angelofvengeance**

That doesn't sound too shabby. Would've still preferred to keep pinning though as in reality, being shot at by snipers is going to be more than enough encouragement to keep your head down!!

F4 against vehicles? Meaning?

**Desubot**

St4 i beleive he is trying to say.

someone said it lost rending.

at least thats back. and non on snaps makes sense.

**Magc8Ball**

Um...

Skyfire no longer says that the weapon may be fired normally at non-fliers/skimmers if it has Interceptor.

**Spoletta**

It did lose rending, it just got AP2 on 6 to wound in it's place.

**WrentheFaceless**

Magc8Ball wrote:
Um...

Skyfire no longer says that the weapon may be fired normally at non-fliers/skimmers if it has Interceptor.

Sounds like mainly a Quad-Gun nerf

**Garion**

Desubot wrote:
St4 i beleive he is trying to say.

someone said it lost rending.

at least thats back. and non on snaps makes sense.

Yes sorry, that's Strength 4

**ClockworkZion**

Magc8Ball wrote:
Um...

Skyfire no longer says that the weapon may be fired normally at non-fliers/skimmers if it has Interceptor.

It never did, Inteceptor is what let it do that (which is a separate rule).

Got my books now. Review in progress.

**Hollismason**

Confirmation on if you have Scout and Infiltrate you can infiltrate and then scout move? T/F?

**Magc8Ball**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Magc8Ball wrote:
Um...

Skyfire no longer says that the weapon may be fired normally at non-fliers/skimmers if it has Interceptor.

It never did, Inteceptor is what let it do that (which is a separate rule).

Got my books now. Review in progress.

Well, alright then. Rephrased: Interceptor no longer allows Skyfire weapons to fire at ground targets at full BS.

**Garion**

Hollismason wrote:
Confirmation on if you have Scout and Infiltrate you can infiltrate and then scout move? T/F?

True

**vadersson**

Downloads are up! I am downloading the ebook rules right now!