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It would definitely be a close one then.

At the risk of this being a put on the "anecdote" page, as it only happened once in all of the one time I've used him...

Fluff army war between by Space Puppies and my buddies Daemons.

I don't remember the exact list, but I wanted to bring some models that no one ever fields, and I encouraged my buddy to do the same.

My fluff bits were Lukas the Trickster, with full compliment of blood claws, a wolf priest, and an iron priest.

So I get the warlord trait that lets me take my warlords unit infilitrating. Attach wolf priest to the blood claws, swing them in on the sides. They (with Lukas' help) tear through cultists like tissue paper, wipe a squad of bloodletters with sheer rage, and get locked in assault with Skarbrand and another squad of 'Letters. All that's left is Lukas, toe to toe with the big man and surrounded by BLs. He takes his last wound, I roll Last Laugh, and get a 6. Epic.

Smashf***er has a 4+ fnp when part of a command squad. And it takes a while for a bloodthirster to grind him down, he'll kill the bloodthirster first as he only has a 5++.

Bloodthirster can get 4+ FNP as well as 4+ invuln, and IWND. Also has a higher WS.

Mister Bloodthirstier or Avatar meet the mighty Bob

HQ: Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (1#, 63 pts)
Empyrean Brain Mines
Nemesis Daemonhammer
Grimoire of True Names
PSYK-OUT GRENADES

 iGuy91 wrote:
There was a 20something page thread about this already. Its decidedly Abbadon.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/504016.page

Lolnope.

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
Eternal blade
Forewarning
Iron Arm
Warp speed/Endurance

Grimoire of fate casted on him.

This should crush abaddon with ease.

Hell, I dare any of you to find something that can beat this one on one without a D strength weapon.

You won't find it.

Skarbrand beats Abaddon anyway. And the Avatar can easily strip him of his combat ability.

Ironfather Smashfether also has a good shot, and with a good roll on the warlord traits table he should win handily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Smashfether has EW.

A full stacked DP of Tzeentch with every roll in his favour will probably come out on top. A lot of luck needed with the random tables, but if he gets everything he needs and successfully casts it, then there will be very few who can oppose him.

On a side note, why are people listing the Bloodthirster here? He isn't even the best greater daemon in cc. A LoC with the right psychic powers (particularly number 5 of divination, giving him re roll misses, wounds and saves) could take down a bloodthirster. A GUO with iron arm would be a tough proposition for the thirster as well, T10 and ID balesword. Thirster has nothing to stop ID attacks.

Depends what you are talking about it going against in close combat. One on one? Termis? Large ap3 unit? Horde?
Against any ap3 or worse unit without a good invuln, the death co dread with talons on the charge is mathmatically going to kill more than anyone else. Give it prescience and it feels like cheating.
6 ws5 s7 attacks rerolling to hit and reolling to wound, no armour saves allowed, and any wounds inflicted gain another attack, ad infinitum. Usually 3+ to hit with reroll followed by a 2+ to wound with reroll. That is A LOT of kills.

I'd love to be able to put forward an ork character but unfortunately ghazzy isn't quite good enough to stand up against anyone with disarming strike.

though I think big mek buzzgob in a kustom klawstompa would have some chance.12 hullpoints to remove, AV13 and 12 attacks on a double-distance charge with strength D might do the trick on most of them. all they have to do is not completely destroy it & they're dead. you need a minimum of 4 explodes results, and even at strength ten with hitting on 3's you'd need 12 attacks to do 4 penetrating hits. stompa will realistically need only 2 hits to kill anything, and chances are it'll get 6.

so the best character in combat is a klawstompa. 'course I understand da roolz!!!

Who was second place behind the Swarmlord previously? I'd imagine they'd be top dog now.

No takers for my Daemon Prince/LoC?

 Kain wrote:
No takers for my Daemon Prince/LoC?

I'm with you on a fully buffed DP of Tzeentch. But under normal circumstances I don't think he'd beat the top competition. He would need another model successfully using Grimoire on him, as well as rolling iron arm and successfully casting it. Along with this you've also got to help for good greater powers. But yeah, if all of this happens then he has a good chance. LD9 hurts vs MSS though.

I love the LoC, and it is great at a variety of roles, cc vs most things included. However, besides giving him a 4+ invulnerable save with divination, and then buffing him with grimoire to give him a 2++ re-rollable save, I don't think he would come beat out the top competition. His lack of a decent reliable save and no eternal warrior means he will be on the backfoot, and WS6, I6 are good, but not the best. I'd say he is a strong contender vs most targets, but I don't see him beating the likes of abbadon or Smashf***er.

50 Guard with inq with rad nades, psyhcotroke, prescience forewarning, few power axes in there and dante or celestine for hit and run and a few priests for fearless and re roll to wound. Trumps all with a nice roll on the psychotroke, grinds everything else out.

 Kain wrote:
No takers for my Daemon Prince/LoC?

Does it have a greater than 50% chance of taking down the competition, including all random rolls for psychic powers, the Grimoire and psychic tests?

MarkyMark wrote:
50 Guard with inq with rad nades, psyhcotroke, prescience forewarning, few power axes in there and dante or celestine for hit and run and a few priests for fearless and re roll to wound. Trumps all with a nice roll on the psychotroke, grinds everything else out.

Which one of them is the "deadliest melee guy"?

 Sir Arun wrote:
My entry would be the Avatar of Khaine, with the Fast Shot, Crushing Blow, Disarming Strike (you and opponent roll D6, you get +1 if your WS is higher, if you score higher, you can reduce one of the opponent's weapons to a cc-weapon) and Monster Hunter.

Your Avatar build auto-fails. He can only have 2 Exarch powers. You gave him 4.

Belakor. Anything he can't kill in combat he can fly around throwing psychic shriek at until it dies

Psychic Shriek isn't exactly a "melee" ability...

Just for fun, i'll mention the Trygon Prime. Can't quite deal with everything, but can do some hurt. Mine took down a Bloodthurster before, luck was partly why, but whatever.

Prime. w/ Reaper, Maw Claws, Regen, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Ymgarl Factor, Acid Blood & Toxin Spike. A whopping 415pts

Has a few tricks like I7, 2+ sv, IWND on 4+, loadsa atks but only at WS5, Shadow in the Warp potentially hurting psychers.

 Ailaros wrote:

Scipio Africanus wrote:Blood crushers are the most deadly to anything without a 2+ save.

You can only take them in a squad up to size 9. They only have a 6+/5++. They only have Ap3 on the one hand, and they don't have enough weight of attacks on the other. They're multi-wound models dangerously susceptible to instant death, and they have Ld7 without being fearless.

They are not the best melee unit.

In fact, the only thing they'd be all that extra good against are berzerkers, but as I said...

I love how you note with glee that they have a 5++, but harmlessly forget they have access to GoTN and have daemonic instability, citing that they "don't have fearless"

They're arguably better than fearless. They only lose wounds from combat if they lose combat, which they rarely do and you KNOW they will have a 3++ if you're running them. With a pair of heralds, maybe karanak, they're hardly susceptible to instant death. They're also FAR more likely to get into combat than a unit of 10 khorne berzerkers.

9 Blokes puts out 32 S6AP3, 9 S5AP- attacks and 5 S6AP2 attacks on the charge. With two heralds they're arguably going to hit harder than any unit, and karanak makes sure they can get into combat turn two.

Edit

WHat is the Goargon Chain? I dont see it in Codex Space marines or in Army builder

Iron hands clan raukaan supplement. It gives buffs to IWND, grants EW as well as a few other buffs and requires no hands to use. If the model starts to suffer wounds it starts to lose effectiveness though.

Abaddon or Azreal with his 5 str 6 attacks would get my vote.

I don't think some get how nasty this guy is to any deamon. I break it down


Mister Bloodthirstier or Avatar meet the mighty Bob

HQ: Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (1#, 63 pts)
PSYK-OUT GRENADES = Makes you IN 1 on charge
Empyrean Brain Mines= pass IN or can have no attacks or no anything
Grimoire of True Names any deamon in base contact -5 WS -5 IN - 5 leadership.
Nemesis Daemonhammer= x2 str. AP 2 any unsaved wounds must pass LD check or die. or is a force weapon too.

sadly only really deadly against deamons

BlaxicanX wrote:By my mathhammer, the Avatar would crap on a 20-man Beserker blob.

Well, to start with, there's a 1 in 9 chance that the avatar won't kill the champion on the first round, in which case the avatar is going to stumble out of the challenge missing a wound or two.

In those cases where he doesn't, though, then it's 19 berzerkers against an avatar. That's 19 krak grenades that still hit on 4's, which chisel off a wound or two. The next round it's 16 krak grenades, and now the avatar is down to 2 wounds. Then it's 13 krak grenades and the avatar is at 1 wound. Then it's 10 krak grenades and the avatar is very likely dead. Even if you give it another round, it's 7 krak grenades, and the avatar is really very likely dead by now.

It's possible for the avatar to win if the khorne player has really bad rolling, but most of the time the berzerkers should win.

Kain wrote:Grimoire of fate casted on him.

So now you're no longer talking about a single unit. It's a two-unit combo of DP + grimoire holder.

And yeah, you've got to get an awful lot of die rolls to pass to get him into uber-mode. Most of the time he'll be rather worse. A more consistent fighter will do better most of the time.

MarkyMark wrote:50 Guard with inq with rad nades, psyhcotroke, prescience forewarning, few power axes in there and dante or celestine for hit and run and a few priests for fearless and re roll to wound. Trumps all with a nice roll on the psychotroke, grinds everything else out.

Which one of them is the "deadliest melee guy"?

The OP said unit, not just individual model.

Not that the blob would be all that good. Yes, the rad grenades might do something interesting, but half the time it's completely useless against those berzerkers' killing power. When it's a dud, the berzerkers start out by killing 31 guardsmen. 20 guardsmen vs. 20 berzerkers is going to end poorly for the guardsmen.

Even then, though, a guard blob doesn't get psychotroke grenades, nor does it get dante. If you're expanding the scope of "unit" to "unit and any and all independent characters that it's possible to cram into the unit," then I guess the best unit in close combat is, as you say, a 50-man guard blob, except it also includes EVERY SINGLE INDEPENDENT CHARACTER from every imperium codex.

But that's a little silly.

Transcendent C'Tan.

1 Imperial Knight Errant

anything that doesnt do 6 hullpoints by init4 is gonna face strength D, and if he does fall he might take them with him.

How bout a unit of 10 Deathwing Knights? Weakness would be a challenge but you could always decline it and still go for 18x Str10 Ap2 attacks (27 on charge). Should hurt most things fairly well.
The 2+/3++ and potential T5 would help get a second round to mop up as well (although much weaker... except maybe against CSM),

 Exergy wrote:
1 Imperial Knight Errant

anything that doesnt do 6 hullpoints by init4 is gonna face strength D, and if he does fall he might take them with him.

Psh...it's the stomp that does work...oh sorry Calgar...stepped on ya...removed from the board.

I find the lack of Be'Lakor in this thread disturbing. He is pretty much built to take down heavy hitters 1 on 1. He can just keep casting invisibility on himself and make even the avatar needing 5s to hit, and makes the very annoying chapter master highly unlikely to even touch him.