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I remember reading on WarSeer that Space Marines are so elite, proportion wise, that the whole of China should only have ONE Space Marine.

Any estimates from GW themselves? Of course, Space Marines are usually recruited from certain worlds only; by right the toughest, harshest worlds in the Imperium.


On a side note, Guiliman did his job so well that Ultramar is now very prosperous. If the Ultramarines continue to recruit from there, wouldn't they be getting a bunch of snobbish softies? Just sayin'

IIRC it's 1,000 marines per chapter and 1,000 chapters, so a maximum of 1,000,000 marines. Compare this to a galaxy with populations in the billions on single planets, and billions of planets.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
IIRC it's 1,000 marines per chapter and 1,000 chapters, so a maximum of 1,000,000 marines. Compare this to a galaxy with populations in the billions on single planets, and billions of planets.

That's just Codex Compliant. There's still the Space Wolves, Black Dragons, Black Templar, and any additional unknown non-codex compliant Chapters out there.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
IIRC it's 1,000 marines per chapter and 1,000 chapters, so a maximum of 1,000,000 marines. Compare this to a galaxy with populations in the billions on single planets, and billions of planets.

That's just Codex Compliant. There's still the Space Wolves, Black Dragons, Black Templar, and any additional unknown non-codex compliant Chapters out there.

Which is a fair sized drop in the bucket.

There are really not that many Loyalist Marines out there, for the Scale of the galaxy.

I believe the quote was that there is one Space Marine for every single planet in the Imperium.

Someone once worked out the population of the Imperium is 1.5 Quintillion. The entire earth's population would probably not produce a single space marine.

That's just Codex Compliant. There's still the Space Wolves, Black Dragons, Black Templar, and any additional unknown non-codex compliant Chapters out there.

Yes, but then you have those Chapters that are down to like 10 guys because of massive casualties sustained in recent engagements.

However you crunch the numbers, it comes out to one million Space Marines, one for every planet the Imperium holds. They are, to the vast majority of the Imperium's population, more mythical than unicorns. As in, you might hear stories about them, but you'll never, ever see one.

 Psienesis wrote:

That's just Codex Compliant. There's still the Space Wolves, Black Dragons, Black Templar, and any additional unknown non-codex compliant Chapters out there.

Yes, but then you have those Chapters that are down to like 10 guys because of massive casualties sustained in recent engagements.

However you crunch the numbers, it comes out to one million Space Marines, one for every planet the Imperium holds. They are, to the vast majority of the Imperium's population, more mythical than unicorns. As in, you might hear stories about them, but you'll never, ever see one.

And if you do, it's because you're about to be dead.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Someone once worked out the population of the Imperium is 1.5 Quintillion. The entire earth's population would probably not produce a single space marine.

That would be an average population per world of one and a half trillion people.

The largest planetary population I've ever seen listed for an Imperial world is half a trillion, for Ichar IV. Most Hive Worlds seem to have far fewer than that, often with far less than 100 billion people. Only abut 3% of imperial planets are hive worlds. Of those, the vast majority probably have populations in the tens of billions. Maybe a tiny fraction (like Terra) have populations in the trillions.

The most common class of Imperial world is the γ-class world with a maximum population of 10 billion and usually far fewer. Agri-worlds, feral worlds, feudal worlds and various other common types will have populations usually numbering far less than 1 billion.

I'd put the total population of the Imperium at somewhere around 1-10 quadrillion, or about 1-10 billion people per space marine. So modern day Earth could probably support a handful of space marines at best.

EDIT: it seems that checking the sources, Lexicanum might be wrong on the population of Ichar IV. 13th Legion says it had a population of 190 billion.

Maximus Bitch wrote:
I remember reading on WarSeer that Space Marines are so elite, proportion wise, that the whole of China should only have ONE Space Marine.

Any estimates from GW themselves? Of course, Space Marines are usually recruited from certain worlds only; by right the toughest, harshest worlds in the Imperium.


On a side note, Guiliman did his job so well that Ultramar is now very prosperous. If the Ultramarines continue to recruit from there, wouldn't they be getting a bunch of snobbish softies? Just sayin'

A space marine recruit needs to be an elite athlete but probably not that elite. What makes them truly special are all the genetic mods and implants and then the super thick powered armor. China would have no space marines, neither would the entire earth. Without the implants and geneseed you get nothing.

Now in terms of suport, as in how many space marines could a planet make it depends on the planet. The richest planets might be able to afford 10 or 20 space marines while countless others would not be able to afford to produce 1.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/432024.page


Well this is the tread, I'm pretty decent at maths but numbers of this size are not my expertise.

Some recruit from sole or few planets, feneris produces huge numbers per capita vs regular planets

Fenrisians also suprised the Emperor as to how many old guys survived the implantation process. When every one of Russ' friends underwent the process. Instead of becoming "Marine like". Such as Luthor.

 Psienesis wrote:

That's just Codex Compliant. There's still the Space Wolves, Black Dragons, Black Templar, and any additional unknown non-codex compliant Chapters out there.

Yes, but then you have those Chapters that are down to like 10 guys because of massive casualties sustained in recent engagements.

However you crunch the numbers, it comes out to one million Space Marines, one for every planet the Imperium holds. They are, to the vast majority of the Imperium's population, more mythical than unicorns. As in, you might hear stories about them, but you'll never, ever see one.

Not even that, the IOM likely has far more planets than a million, million likely only means hive worlds.

 Stonerhino wrote:
Fenrisians also suprised the Emperor as to how many old guys survived the implantation process. When every one of Russ' friends underwent the process. Instead of becoming "Marine like". Such as Luthor.

Though in 40k logic being from death world you are tougher and thus better marine stock for implanting and passing marine trials. And feneris is listed as one of most deadly short of maybe katchan, a planet that every plant is trying yo kill you

jhe90 wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
Fenrisians also suprised the Emperor as to how many old guys survived the implantation process. When every one of Russ' friends underwent the process. Instead of becoming "Marine like". Such as Luthor.

Though in 40k logic being from death world you are tougher and thus better marine stock for implanting and passing marine trials. And feneris is listed as one of most deadly short of maybe katchan, a planet that every plant is trying yo kill you

*Catachan

And yes, that is the most deadly place known to man aside from dead worlds, and places inhabited by daemons/advanced xenos

Before anyone distracts you with a low-level answer about Ultramar, let me tell you that both of your questions have the same answer.

You know the Ultramarines really like codified behavior and very systematized behavior. You ahouldnt be surprised them that they send almost all of the youth in Ultramar to boarding academies called the Agisellis barracks. From very early in their lives all the children have to wake up early and go to a drilling yard and go through extensive exams on history, problem solving, and teamwork.


They take recruits from there, and the barracks are also a reason the rest of th population are so industrious. So Ultramarines, who love to be a perfectly ordered machine, take recruits who stand out in a super structured environment, ones who are good at applying skills they are taught to goals set for them by a bigger organization.

However, when space wolves recruit, they often take recruits who have been beaten and almost killed in battle, because they want marines who have unlimited courage and ambition.

So the reason recruits are rare is that they have to be genetically and physically fit, but they also have to have the right mental qualities. You're kind of right that there is only one space marine in all of china, but you really mean that if there is only one marine in china, he is not the same as the only space wolf in china, if there are any space wolves there at all.

pelicaniforce wrote:
Before anyone distracts you with a low-level answer about Ultramar, let me tell you that both of your questions have the same answer.

You know the Ultramarines really like codified behavior and very systematized behavior. You ahouldnt be surprised them that they send almost all of the youth in Ultramar to boarding academies called the Agisellis barracks. From very early in their lives all the children have to wake up early and go to a drilling yard and go through extensive exams on history, problem solving, and teamwork.


They take recruits from there, and the barracks are also a reason the rest of th population are so industrious. So Ultramarines, who love to be a perfectly ordered machine, take recruits who stand out in a super structured environment, ones who are good at applying skills they are taught to goals set for them by a bigger organization.

However, when space wolves recruit, they often take recruits who have been beaten and almost killed in battle, because they want marines who have unlimited courage and ambition.

So the reason recruits are rare is that they have to be genetically and physically fit, but they also have to have the right mental qualities. You're kind of right that there is only one space marine in all of china, but you really mean that if there is only one marine in china, he is not the same as the only space wolf in china, if there are any space wolves there at all.

That makes me think; Why is there not a China-themed SM chapter? That would be epic.

 Selym wrote:

jhe90 wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
Fenrisians also suprised the Emperor as to how many old guys survived the implantation process. When every one of Russ' friends underwent the process. Instead of becoming "Marine like". Such as Luthor.

Though in 40k logic being from death world you are tougher and thus better marine stock for implanting and passing marine trials. And feneris is listed as one of most deadly short of maybe katchan, a planet that every plant is trying yo kill you

*Catachan

And yes, that is the most deadly place known to man aside from dead worlds, and places inhabited by daemons/advanced xenos

Yes, c. I thought I caught all the spelling mistakes. Space wolves home world is in top 3 I believe, dangerous. Tough but not like krieg, or a corrupted deamon world of iron warriors fortress worlds where the universe is warped by ruinous powers and courupted or totally toxic on surface.

Both examples of your worlds

Given the approximate number of space marines and imperial planets, there is less than 1 Space Marine per imperial controlled world.

Production of a space marine has absolutely nothing to do with planetary population, depending on the chapter a few thousand humans could sustain a chapter (feral worlds, death worlds) populated worlds (macragge, old caliban) produced pretty much the same amount but had a larger pool to test from, it's all about the identity of the chapter and the training it's recruits require, for instance the wolves want near psychos where as the ultras as an ordered society would likely want more well rounded soldiers or athletes (or a combination), so earth as it is now could produce none or tens of thousands of candidates.

Really, its not a lack of candidates which limits marine numbers. Its the semi-honor system the Codex presents and the chapter's supply of geneseed.

Modern day Earth alone could probably supply all the Marine chapters in 40k with initiates and not even feel the loss.

nvm, irrelevant

 Grey Templar wrote:
Really, its not a lack of candidates which limits marine numbers. Its the semi-honor system the Codex presents and the chapter's supply of geneseed.

Modern day Earth alone could probably supply all the Marine chapters in 40k with initiates and not even feel the loss.

Yep basically what I said

Geneseed shouldn't be a problem.

If a chapter kept all it's geneseed to itself, it would be able to double in size every five years. The ones in the neck mature really quickly and can be removed without killing off the marine.

Well you have compliations in implementation or implants, accidents and training loss,s so that's some down.

Not every applicant is not going to end up a marine.

Also equipping a marine costs a fortune, add support gear, ships, ammo. Transport and such you cannot just equip a company in short order

jhe90 wrote:
Well you have compliations in implementation or implants, accidents and training loss,s so that's some down.

Not every applicant is not going to end up a marine.

Also equipping a marine costs a fortune, add support gear, ships, ammo. Transport and such you cannot just equip a company in short order

The training and augmentation probably kill more than anything else. Space Wolves are poisoned with a genetic disease that threatens to turn them into feral beast-men, dropped miles away from their base with no equipment and forced to walk back while simultaneously battling the wulfen curse, elements, animals and whatever initiates didn't make it before and still roam the area as beast-men and then they're allowed to finish the rest of their initiation.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

That's just Codex Compliant. There's still the Space Wolves, Black Dragons, Black Templar, and any additional unknown non-codex compliant Chapters out there.

Yes, but then you have those Chapters that are down to like 10 guys because of massive casualties sustained in recent engagements.

However you crunch the numbers, it comes out to one million Space Marines, one for every planet the Imperium holds. They are, to the vast majority of the Imperium's population, more mythical than unicorns. As in, you might hear stories about them, but you'll never, ever see one.

Not even that, the IOM likely has far more planets than a million, million likely only means hive worlds.

The quote, regarding the God-Emperor of Mankind is, "He is the master of a million worlds".

Pretty sure they aren't counting only Hive Worlds.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

That's just Codex Compliant. There's still the Space Wolves, Black Dragons, Black Templar, and any additional unknown non-codex compliant Chapters out there.

Yes, but then you have those Chapters that are down to like 10 guys because of massive casualties sustained in recent engagements.

However you crunch the numbers, it comes out to one million Space Marines, one for every planet the Imperium holds. They are, to the vast majority of the Imperium's population, more mythical than unicorns. As in, you might hear stories about them, but you'll never, ever see one.

Not even that, the IOM likely has far more planets than a million, million likely only means hive worlds.

The quote, regarding the God-Emperor of Mankind is, "He is the master of a million worlds".

Pretty sure they aren't counting only Hive Worlds.

Except they also constantly lose planets by the day from database errors, and control the majority of the Milky Way. They most certainly have far more than a million worlds, easily billions. Hell just a quick google search comes up with the number of Earth-sized planetoids being about the forty billion mark.

The Imperium is spread across the galaxy, but it's far from in control of every single system within it's borders. Imperial worlds tend to be clustered in sectors with huge areas of 'wilderness space' between them.

An Imperial world needs to not only be Earth-sized, but also situated the right distance from it's star and to have an atmosphere which will support human life. That's far more specific than merely a matter of size.

It also needs to be reachable from other imperial worlds. A hive world can't sustain itself without importing food and materials from agri worlds, while agri worlds can't maintain their economies without manufactured goods from hive worlds. Even worlds which are more or less self-sufficient need to be reachable by military forces in the event of an invasion or rebellion. That limits the Imperium to occupying worlds which are able to be reached by somewhat reliable warp routes.

Add those factors together and you only have a relatively tiny number of planets suitable for imperial occupation.

Also the 5th edition rulebook explicitly said that there were 32,380 hive worlds in the Imperium.