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Now I'm normally pretty vocal when it comes to bashing GW, so I thought I'd inject some balance.

It seems someone at GW is at least actively trying to turn things around of late.

The way the 7th Ed 40K is being done gives me some hope:

They've put up (or are in the progress of putting up) a 3 part video series explaining some of the new mechanics, so they are trying to provide some information. That's a serious improvement over the normal rumour embargo, even if it's a bit inconsistent.

The new BRB is split into 3 parts - Rules (~200 pages), Fluff (~150 pages), Hobby (~150 pages). It's still in a bundle, but that's sort of what Battlefront does too so I can't complain too much about that. Now I don't need to carry such a huge tome about.

The BRB is now apparently going to be £5 more than the old one, which actually seems like a reasonable increase (11%) over 2 years and is coming in a lot cheaper than I was expecting (I was honestly expecting it to be £65 rather than £50). It's still a lot more than most other companies, but not by the usual GW margin.

So hopefully this will continue and I can go back to wasting huge sums of money with them again.

If it is 3 separate books so you don't need to heaf the BRB about all the time that would be great

We will find out this Friday when pre orders go live

I agree, checking a rule or a bit of fluff will be much easier if each is in a separate book and makes it easy to transport (especially as I walk to my local club )

I bought an expensive massive book less than 2 years ago. I then bought two expensive expansions less than a year ago.

I won't be buying another.

I kinda wish they would sell the books individually. I don't really need a seperate book full of Ultramarines, and another full of recycled fluff. I do like the idea however. Its one of those things that if sold them separately I'd buy them one by one over time.

If enough of us go to GW and ask for the rulebook by itself, and are told we have to buy the whole bundle, and we say we won't and will wait for the rulebook to be released by itself, then it may encourage GW to release the rulebook alone.

^It might work. But that would require us to work as a team and refuse to buy it until they do.

This is from WDW...

£50 is a pretty reasonable price for three volumes in a slipcase, in my opinion. Although I only really need the rules, and will switch my pre-order to a second copy of DV if an updated DV is available within a few days of the new rulebook...

Herzlos wrote:


The BRB is now apparently going to be £5 more than the old one, which actually seems like a reasonable increase (11%) over 2 years and is coming in a lot cheaper than I was expecting (I was honestly expecting it to be £65 rather than £50). It's still a lot more than most other companies, but not by the usual GW margin.

Cost of inflation in the UK over the last 2 years is less than 2%. Average inflation out over the last 20 years for the UK, it's about 2.8%. Please research this if it's in doubt. So, GW raising the price of their Core Product by 11% is a far cry from 'reasonable'. May I quote the office for National Statistics: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/ppi2/producer-price-index/january-2014/stb-producer-price-inflation--january-2014.html?format=print

Printed Materials infalation costs was 1% for 2013, similar figure to 2012. So what's the additional 9% for other than increased profits?

Are you arguing over 80% of 5 pounds?

 TheSecretSquig wrote:

Herzlos wrote:


The BRB is now apparently going to be £5 more than the old one, which actually seems like a reasonable increase (11%) over 2 years and is coming in a lot cheaper than I was expecting (I was honestly expecting it to be £65 rather than £50). It's still a lot more than most other companies, but not by the usual GW margin.

Cost of inflation in the UK over the last 2 years is less than 2%. Average inflation out over the last 20 years for the UK, it's about 2.8%. Please research this if it's in doubt. So, GW raising the price of their Core Product by 11% is a far cry from 'reasonable'. May I quote the office for National Statistics: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/ppi2/producer-price-index/january-2014/stb-producer-price-inflation--january-2014.html?format=print

Printed Materials infalation costs was 1% for 2013, similar figure to 2012. So what's the additional 9% for other than increased profits?

Perhaps there are increased operating or legal cost?

The cost of production of a product has very little to do with how much the product costs when it hits the shelf. There's many things that happen in between; shipping, storage. Who knows. Hell, the cost of production could've gone up because of added content or somesuch.

I think it's a logical leap to say "Currency inflation is only 1%, so the remaining price increase is solely for profit!!!" I think it's to increase revenue, which may be necessary in the face of increasing costs.

What about the cost of inflation in China where this book was made?

Is anybody here involved in book production?

Serious question, what are the costs of producing three lesser page-count hardback books compared to one higher page-count hardback book?

I believe it's actually cheaper - once you get above a certain size (~400 pages) you have difficulty with the bindings.

I'm pretty sure that's why it's split, and not for our benefits. But the end result is good all the same.

I wish they'd go back to the "heavy metal album" style covers of the past though.

 Ruberu wrote:
^It might work. But that would require us to work as a team and refuse to buy it until they do.

No, just buy it from somewhere else.............................. As long as GW stores aren't selling them, the point is made.

 TheSecretSquig wrote:

Cost of inflation in the UK over the last 2 years is less than 2%. Average inflation out over the last 20 years for the UK, it's about 2.8%. Please research this if it's in doubt. So, GW raising the price of their Core Product by 11% is a far cry from 'reasonable'. May I quote the office for National Statistics: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/ppi2/producer-price-index/january-2014/stb-producer-price-inflation--january-2014.html?format=print

Printed Materials infalation costs was 1% for 2013, similar figure to 2012. So what's the additional 9% for other than increased profits?

Inflation numbers aren't exactly what i'd call reliable. It is widely debated that governments understate inflation figures to lower all their debt obligations that are tied to measures like CPI and PPI.

The main reason why these accusations have some merit is that government economists around the globe have adopted the method of hedonicly adjusting virtually every metric.What that means is that they are assigning "productivity gains" that suppresses the prices reported. So if you bought a computer last year for $2,000 and you bought a $2,000 computer this year, they would assign a productivity gain because this year's computer is faster. It's silly and arbitrary but it's also how they are keeping inflation in check on the headline numbers. Nevermind that the cost of raw materials, housing, insurance, energy and food have skyrocketed over the past decade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_regression

I would encourage anyone who wants to know more about the use of hedonic regression in inflation numbers to research it for themselves. It's really tragic because so many people's retirements heavily depend on the accuracy of those numbers.

$85 dollars might be reasonable for 3 hardcover books in a slipcase - but apart from the actual rule book, do the two smaller books need to be hardcover?

Battlefront did the same thing with their 3rd edition - a 300 page hardcover rule book, then a softcover book that had Army Lists for Americans, British, Soviets and Germans, and a booklet that was a both a painting guide for the big four in Late War and a guide as to what battlefields should look like on the Western and Eastern front. All that was for $60, with the additional savings of being able to show your 2nd ed book to retailers to get the smaller, softcover rule book for free.

 don_mondo wrote:

 Ruberu wrote:
^It might work. But that would require us to work as a team and refuse to buy it until they do.

No, just buy it from somewhere else.............................. As long as GW stores aren't selling them, the point is made.

The vendor still buys from GW

dereksatkinson wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:

 Ruberu wrote:
^It might work. But that would require us to work as a team and refuse to buy it until they do.

No, just buy it from somewhere else.............................. As long as GW stores aren't selling them, the point is made.

The vendor still buys from GW

Yes, at 40% less than the consumer buys direct.

It's the best compromise for those who don't want to cut their nose off to spite their face, it still reduces income to GW, and, more importantly, they will see that sales are going through independents and not through their own chain. As they've been sliding a subtle knife into their independent retailers for years, anything that can be done to show support for the independent seller and encourage a healthy, more competitive marketplace, should be actively pursued.

 Ruberu wrote:
^It might work. But that would require us to work as a team and refuse to buy it until they do.

It just needs a high proportion of players individually to decide they won't buy the slipcase set.

I am not arguing for a boycott. I think people will make their own decision which I hope will be enough to cause some ripples in the GW Finance department.

I could see myself buying the fluff part and maybe the hobby part if they'd be sold separately. I have no use for the rules though, so I definitely won't be buying the slipcase. Might ask on a local forum if someone wants to split, but that's as far as I'd go.

Otherwise I'm all for the concept of three separate books in a slipcase. No objections on that.

 fishy bob wrote:
I could see myself buying the fluff part and maybe the hobby part if they'd be sold separately. I have no use for the rules though, so I definitely won't be buying the slipcase. Might ask on a local forum if someone wants to split, but that's as far as I'd go.

Otherwise I'm all for the concept of three separate books in a slipcase. No objections on that.

You'll get a split that way easily enough, possibly even just for postage, as I imagine that the vast majority of gamers only want the rules book.

 fishy bob wrote:
I could see myself buying the fluff part and maybe the hobby part if they'd be sold separately. I have no use for the rules though, so I definitely won't be buying the slipcase. Might ask on a local forum if someone wants to split, but that's as far as I'd go.

Otherwise I'm all for the concept of three separate books in a slipcase. No objections on that.

I'll take that deal. Seriously, PM me if you want to work something out.

I don't see how saying "Wow they didn't screw us nearly as hard as I was expecting" is a good thing. Who exactly is the BRB supposed to be for anyway? New players would be better off getting the Starter boxed set, older players don't want 300 junk pages of recycled hobby and fluff that they have to pay £30 extra for.

You can already guess what it's gonna be like:

- Space marines of the front (extra points for screaming bald guy).
- Obligatory grim dark future pages.
- A picture of some neckbeards enjoying a game of Warhammer 40k.
- Labeled close-up of the table.
- Core rules with some minor changes. (This is the only bit most people would willing to pay for)
- Colour pages with photos from the website.
- A big picture of the galaxy.
- Some horrendous John Blanche artwork.
- Copypasta.
- A picture of GW super glue and text that you always skip.
- Appendix

I already bought this book twice, and both times I was disappointed by the amount of filler and lack of content compared to the older books. RT was literally bursting with content, they had stuff written sideways in the margins it was so packed in. Now they save half the content to pad out the codex books, and pad it out with full page glossy photos. The BRB has no right to be 500 pages, is should be 20 and called the RB.

I might read it, but I'm certainly not buying it again.

So it's 3 books in one, but I have to buy all 3 to get the one I need. So here is the boardroom meeting in February...

Um, guys...we just lost 25% of our value because we are really screwing things up.

Yeah, we know, maybe our customers are getting tired of poorly written rules, lack of play testing, constant price hikes, over priced models, pushing them to play with more expensive stuff...

Well, maybe, but they seem to just keep tacking it in the "_ _ _" and seem fine with it, so that can't be the reason.

Ya, you're right, it's the economy...no, climate change...ya, that's it.

Ok, so how do we get the 25% back and fast, our "investors" are upset.

How about we milk the cash cow again, early?

Great Idea! Ok, we haven't finished releasing 6th ed. books, but we can fix the rules a bit because we really "effed" em up with 6th, wow we made assault useless, we mad flyers way OP, we totally screwed over half the armies.

Ya, but we sold a crap load of flyers, Tau, Eldar, and big expensive models.

So what do we do?

We add some stuff to make people buy more and bigger models, force them to buy the rules again and the new codices we will have to write.

But won't they get mad about us not releasing the other stuff before an update? Na, as long as we "say" it's better, they will just do the same thing as last time, buy more stuff!

Super idea, let's get ahold of the kids Infant Games to get those new rules written, we need to go to press ASAP!

Oh, and lets add an Unbound rule for army selection, oh ya that's fricking awesome, we turn everyone into "That Guy" so we can't be blamed for totally over the top lists!

This is it boys, we have saved the company!

I don't see how doing something they should have doing all along (and indeed what other companies have done for years) in terms of videos/previews is deserving of praise.

I don't see how making three separate books (a good idea) but bundling them (a bad idea) when most people will only want one or two of those books is deserving of praise.

I don't see how selling a book for more than it was 2 years ago (shorter edition life span than the three before it) at a price that already makes other companies' rulebooks blush is deserving of praise.

No. Not good on GW. When they actually make a change that goes above and beyond what most other competitors are already doing, than I'll say good on GW.

For that to happen, I'd expect full previews, teasers, and other blogs of informational goodness about upcoming releases. Who knows, maybe even an inkling of customer interaction through social media and the like. I'd expect prices within the realm of reason for the content included. I'd expect things like rules only books for the game to be made available separately and at a fair price.

I'd also expect them to clean up and balance the game, but that's an issue for another thread.

Because it's a step in the right direction, perhaps, Blacksails? Once you are at a "GW is evil, they are terrible!" mindset then nothing they do is worth acknowledging as positive, and that's where you're at. I'd encourage you to find a new hobby, since you hate GW that much. You won't be satisfied until EVERYTHING you think is wrong is fixed to your liking, and that will never happen.

 troa wrote:
Because it's a step in the right direction, perhaps, Blacksails? Once you are at a "GW is evil, they are terrible!" mindset then nothing they do is worth acknowledging as positive, and that's where you're at. I'd encourage you to find a new hobby, since you hate GW that much. You won't be satisfied until EVERYTHING you think is wrong is fixed to your liking, and that will never happen.

GW is the HHHobby, not the hobby.

But you're right, it can be taken as a positive sign that GW have finally acknowledged that taking everything commonly seen as the right thing to do, then doing the opposite, is about as fething gak a business plan as it is possible to get.

 troa wrote:
Because it's a step in the right direction, perhaps, Blacksails? Once you are at a "GW is evil, they are terrible!" mindset then nothing they do is worth acknowledging as positive, and that's where you're at. I'd encourage you to find a new hobby, since you hate GW that much. You won't be satisfied until EVERYTHING you think is wrong is fixed to your liking, and that will never happen.

Sure, its a step in the right direction, but hardly deserving of praise. I've never been of the mindset to say 'good job' to doing the bare minimum.

I'll say something positive about GW when they deserve it.

The 'hobby' is more than GW, and I already play other games.

Further, I'll be satisfied much before 'everything' if fixed to 'my' liking. I'll be satisfied when they start attaining basic levels of competency in game design, customer interaction, and pricing as the competitors. Not unreasonable at all.