Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey Dakkites! I am throwing an idea out that even though assaults should be able to be made out of ALL transports, but there should be penalties to doing so from a non-assault vehicle. As of the 6ed, there only 3 'penalties' reflected in the rules I can think of that would reflect attempting this:

1. Disordered Charge
2. Assaulting through Difficult Terrain
3. Assaulting through Dangerous Terrain

Are there any others that I missed?
..................................................................................................................................

After 15 minutes of brainstorming and coffee, I have come up with this:

A unit that attempts to assault after disembarking from a non-assault vehicle can only make a disordered charge and counts as assaulting through difficult terrain.

Do you think this is too harsh, getting off easy, just right, or unbalancingly exploitable? Please let me know why, and what you would change. Unit/vehicle references and capabilities would be useful.

Regardless of penalties, being able to charge out of any vehicle that moved that turn risks bringing us back to the old rhino rush days. Though I'm sure Khorne berzerkers and blood angels would be ok with that.

 gardeth wrote:
Regardless of penalties, being able to charge out of any vehicle that moved that turn risks bringing us back to the old rhino rush days. Though I'm sure Khorne berzerkers and blood angels would be ok with that.

Absent the "you can only kill a vehicle on a 5 or a 6 with a penetrating hit" setup from 6e I doubt there's any risk of that.

I'm not particularly worried about this being a horribly unbalancing influence on the game, disordered charge out of non-Assault-Vehicle/Open-Topped transports sounds fair to me.

Go back to the days of 5th, where you can only assault from a non-assault vehicle only if it hadn't moved. Transports were fine back then.

 jy2 wrote:
Go back to the days of 5th, where you can only assault from a non-assault vehicle only if it hadn't moved. Transports were fine back then.

Yep. Removing it was a bad idea.

So, what would be the downside of a Rhino Rush in 6th Ed? Keep in mind it would be 12" movement and average less than 6" charge. Berserkers and Blood Angels would have 2 attacks and no charging bonuses.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:
So, what would be the downside of a Rhino Rush in 6th Ed? Keep in mind it would be 12" movement and average less than 6" charge. Berserkers and Blood Angels would have 2 attacks and no charging bonuses.

Durability? The fact that a Rhino is made of tissue paper in the face of a lot of the heavy weapon spam that's popular this edition?

There's no downside. It's a huge boon, even better than back in 5th where if the vehicle moved at all, you couldn't charge.

If I were to do it this edition, I'd impose the following restrictions:

1. Disordered charge.

2. If the vehicle hasn't moved, then you're fine. If the vehicle moved, then you count as charging through dangerous terrain. After all, jumping out of a vehicle, there is a chance that you land improperly or step on something dangerous or that you just lose your footing trying to disembark from a moving vehicle.

3. You still cannot disembark from the vehicle if it moves more than 6". This is nothing new as it is the current rule.

4. Can never assault from drop pods (on the turn it comes in) or a vehicle in flyer mode.

^I support #1 and #2, #4 is already covered by the "you cannot assault after Deep Striking or on the turn you come on from Reserves" rules currently in place that we're not messing with.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
^I support #1 and #2, #4 is already covered by the "you cannot assault after Deep Striking or on the turn you come on from Reserves" rules currently in place that we're not messing with.

I added #4 for reasons of clarity, just so that no one can argue, "well, this special rule says that I can assault coming out of a transport so I am going to assault after disembarking from my drop pod". I just like to give no room for any WAAC-ish attempt to exploit any particular rules.

 jy2 wrote:
There's no downside.

 gardeth wrote:
being able to charge out of any vehicle that moved that turn risks bringing us back to the old rhino rush days

Sorry, I was attempting to respond to this statement. I don't know what the 'risks' of the old rhino rush days were since I skipped from Second Ed. to the very last days of Fourth.

 jy2 wrote:
1. Disordered charge.

2. If the vehicle hasn't moved, then you're fine. If the vehicle moved, then you count as charging through dangerous terrain. After all, jumping out of a vehicle, there is a chance that you land improperly or step on something dangerous or that you just lose your footing trying to disembark from a moving vehicle.

3. You still cannot disembark from the vehicle if it moves more than 6". This is nothing new as it is the current rule.

4. Can never assault from drop pods (on the turn it comes in) or a vehicle in flyer mode.

1. Sounds good
2. I think that if the vehicle hasn't moved, the assaulting unit should still have a charge distance penalty by way of Difficult Terrain. If it has moved, Dangerous Terrain sounds good as well.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.

Thanks for the input!

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

2. I think that if the vehicle hasn't moved, the assaulting unit should still have a charge distance penalty by way of Difficult Terrain. If it has moved, Dangerous Terrain sounds good as well.

Sure, no prob. He had difficulty getting the seat belt off.

 jy2 wrote:
I just like to give no room for any WAAC-ish attempt to exploit any particular rules.

This house rule is going to be in effect between my brothers and friends. We like to play very competitively, but are always looking for ways to improve the variations on our lists. With this, my brother will field some long time unseen Elite Eldar units without totally unbalancing everything else, and everybody's units won't just sit there if their Transport blows up.

 jy2 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
^I support #1 and #2, #4 is already covered by the "you cannot assault after Deep Striking or on the turn you come on from Reserves" rules currently in place that we're not messing with.

I added #4 for reasons of clarity, just so that no one can argue, "well, this special rule says that I can assault coming out of a transport so I am going to assault after disembarking from my drop pod". I just like to give no room for any WAAC-ish attempt to exploit any particular rules.

Drop Pods are open-topped, people have already tried to argue the point and lost.

Transport didn't move: normal charge
Did move 6" or was wrecked/blown up last turn: disordered charge with difficult terrain test.

Seems fine to me.

 gardeth wrote:
Regardless of penalties, being able to charge out of any vehicle that moved that turn risks bringing us back to the old rhino rush days. Though I'm sure Khorne berzerkers and blood angels would be ok with that.

TRUE THAT!

This has been a great thread. I love rules that give options, and consequences to those options.

I'd not be so much afraid of a rhino rush. half will get shot to death midfield. The other guyz will have to be stuck in a bauble wrap. Anywayz, that's gona be a good way to use mellee-oriented marines and will create possibility for BA-like 5 ed style asm rushes.

I think part of the reason they changed this is so that a unit can be shot at before assaulting after it came out of a vehicle. Of course that means they can never assault first, and instead can get assault by units outside of a vehicle first.

What about overwatch being full BS if the assaulting unit came out of a transport, or only -1 BS (since it'll be -2 in 7th ed). With the advanced warning of a vehicle coming, and the choke point of the door, I can see this. If you have to take an initiative test to do overwatch in 7th, -1 to the roll.

Difficult and disordered if the vehicle moved first.

For assault vehicles, none of that applies.

 invisiblade wrote:
What about overwatch on a unit coming out of a transport being full BS, or only -1 BS (since it'll be -2 in 7th ed). With the advanced warning of a vehicle coming, and the choke point of the door, I can see this.

Difficult and disordered if it moved first.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if you have to take an initiative test to do over watch, +1 to the roll.

Man, we'll burn that bridge when we get to it. Give us a couple of weeks to digest 7th after it comes out. There may be permission to assault out of vehicles, no disordered charge, all kinds of differences that we will take into account then.