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**InventionThirteen**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Succubus can take Artefacts though, so it's not like there is no access to an improved save at all.

Ah that's interesting! I'm guessing that the succubus still retains her dodge save in close combat? So that's not that bad, just need a nice way to deliver her.

**mercury14**

Mr Morden wrote:

Any word if Lelith has def kept her Ignore Armour and any more details on her.

Lelith is -25 points and +1A, keeps ignore armor.

Edit: not sure of her ignoring armor or points actually, don't think that has been confirmed. Someone posted a screenshot yesterday of her profile though and she's +1A.

**BlaxicanX**

With enough buffs from PfP, she might be able to finally be decent in CC between strength 4, functionally AP2 and FNP to keep her alive.

**DarknessEternal**

Red Corsair wrote:
I think grots are nice but they will still get hard countered by wraithknights, so kill that guy first.

Grotesques themselves ARE the thing killing Wraithknights. You have the order of who's afraid of who in that fight backwards.

**Exergy**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
I think grots are nice but they will still get hard countered by wraithknights, so kill that guy first.

Grotesques themselves ARE the thing killing Wraithknights. You have the order of who's afraid of who in that fight backwards.

yeah, I suppose grots would make short work of any MC they get into combat with.

If they can get into combat with any of them.

**mercury14**

Exergy wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
I think grots are nice but they will still get hard countered by wraithknights, so kill that guy first.

Grotesques themselves ARE the thing killing Wraithknights. You have the order of who's afraid of who in that fight backwards.

yeah, I suppose grots would make short work of any MC they get into combat with.

If they can get into combat with any of them.

4 Grots in a Raider with a Haemi or Succubus work?

**rollawaythestone**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
I think grots are nice but they will still get hard countered by wraithknights, so kill that guy first.

Grotesques themselves ARE the thing killing Wraithknights. You have the order of who's afraid of who in that fight backwards.

Really? Wraithknight would strike first (or simultaneous?) and Instant Death each Grotesque with it's Str 10, negating their FnP.

**mercury14**

rollawaythestone wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
I think grots are nice but they will still get hard countered by wraithknights, so kill that guy first.

Grotesques themselves ARE the thing killing Wraithknights. You have the order of who's afraid of who in that fight backwards.

Really? Wraithknight would strike first (or simultaneous?) and Instant Death each Grotesque with it's Str 10, negating their FnP.

Four Grots assaulting it would get close to two ID wounds on a WK though. That's not a 3+ armor save a WK wants to make....

**Exergy**

rollawaythestone wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
I think grots are nice but they will still get hard countered by wraithknights, so kill that guy first.

Grotesques themselves ARE the thing killing Wraithknights. You have the order of who's afraid of who in that fight backwards.

Really? Wraithknight would strike first and Instant Death each Grotesque with it's Str 10, negating their FnP.

are Wraithknights Init 5 or do they somehow always stay in cover? I thought they were init 4. A unit of grots has a good chance to go simo with a wraithknight, who will miss with half of his attacks. Might kill several grots, but each grot is going to bring some pain. Lots of ID going around.

**Mr Morden**

Wraith Knight is I5

**Exergy**

mercury14 wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:

Four Grots assaulting it would get close to two ID wounds on a WK though. That's not a 3+ armor save a WK wants to make....

5 grots would give
2 ID wounds and 4 regular wounds

**Thud**

Wraithknights are I5. Farseers can take Divination where Prescience is the primaris. DE don't have a great chance of stopping that power.

Wraithknights are also jump MCs, and if the Grots have a fancy flying car it's not gonna last long if there's a Wave Serpent (or four) around.

Don't get me wrong, Grotesques are looking like they have quite a bit of potential, but Wraithknights are not good news for them.

**DarkTraveler777**

My biggest hope for this codex was that wyches would be given something to make them viable. To say I am disappointed would be a major understatement.

**Slaanesh-Devotee**

Has anyone got a link to a single post with all of these pieces of information in one place, as the first post here doesn't seem to be able to keep up.

**ClockworkZion**

Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
Has anyone got a link to a single post with all of these pieces of information in one place, as the first post here doesn't seem to be able to keep up.

Best I can offer is a roll up the stuff from Scorpion on The Dark City:

Talos are 1-3 in a unit.

Cronos the same but cant mix with Talos.

Kabalites are the same allthough PGL is as rumoured soulblight (no way of getting defensive grenades). 8 points and may take a raider even though a unit is 10+.

Razorwing is 130 points, may only take nightshields (which gives steath) and is a fast choice (not heavy). Its not a vector dancer :-( Dark Lances cost 5 more points each than a disintegrators.

Q: Can a unit champion for jetbikes get or take a power axe? any Power weapon?
A: Only power swords and Agonisers which is AP 3, poison (4+)

Q: What would the total cost of 5 scourges with 4 haywire guns cost?
A: 120

Q: Wyches... 2 attacks base or 1? (extra hand weapon and charge = 4 attacks each?)
A: 1 attack

Q: Do Kaivex (Exarch) Powers still exist?
A: No

Q: Did Ravagers lose Aerial Assault? Still AV11?
A: Yes and still AV11

Q: Is the Haemonculus (the small/cheap one 1 - 3 choice) gone and fully replaced by the ancient?
A: He is gone. Ancient is in.

Q: Are there any formations (like the Tyranid Dataslates or the Apoc book formations) in the book?
A: 1 formation

Q: Did the Lhamean keep her "give 2+ poison to archon" special rule?
A: No

Q: Did Talos get any new movement rules?
A: No

Q: Grotesques, same stats, points and options? Still blow up if not joined by an independent character?
A: Grotesques are the new hit, I think. Same stats but.... they do not blow up and they got Flesh gauntlets + ccw and Rampage. Nice!! Flesh Gauntlets: S as user, AP-, Lethal Dose, poison (4+).

Lethal Dose: 6 to wound gives ID.

Q: Are scourge rumours true, squads of 5 can take 4 heavy weapons?
A: Yes

Q: 6 fast attack slots?
A: In the "Realspace Raiders Detachment" can you get 6 fast choices, yes. Giving 5+ cover save to troops and 6+ cover save too all others units in the detachment int the first turn AND any turn with night fighting.

Q: can other units enter via webway portal once deepstriked in?
A: any unit the Archon/succubus/heamon that has it have joint and their transport. Thats DS without scattering.

Q: does webwat portal use same small blast template as before(really hope my webway portals get used!)
A: No blast.

Q: Transport capacity of vehicles the same?
A: Yes

Q: Can any if the HQs take a bike or sky board?
A: No and no

Q: are there still trueborn in there and can they still take the same weapons they did in the old dex
A: Yes and Yes.

Q: are mandrakes better?
A: Much better, stealth, shrouded and baleblast from start. Baleblast: assault 2, St 4. AP4, soulblaze

Q: what got nerfed in terms of units
A: Wyches are dead no buffs, no haywire, Dodge only in Fight subphase. Incubi cant get grenades.

Q: can venoms still take double splinter cannons?
A: Yes but can only get Grisly trophies and chain snares.... no shields. SUCKS!!

Q: what defenses did our vehicles get ?, with the removal of Flickerfields to everything other than venoms.
A: Night shields give stealth and the new detachment gives cover in the first turn.

Q: how much is a shadowfield now?/ who can take them
A:4+ inv, 40 points, only archon

Q: What do WWP's do now? and how many points?
A: gives DS without scatter, 35 points, archon/succubus/ heamon can take it.

Q: Can the flyers take flickerfields?
A: No

Q: Do wyches have any chance to survive overwatch and raider explosion? or nothing has changed?
A: No change

Q: Which units have access to Haywire weapons?
A: only wych champion, succubus, archon

Q: Are Harlequins still in the book?
A: Only in fluff, no entry

Q: wait are the shadowfields now a 4+ invul?
A: No, sorry, I mixed it up. Clonefield is 4+ inv. Shadowfield is allmost the same. It works until the end of the phase inwhich you fail the 2+ inv.

Q: Sorry for the barrage but this one's kinda huge.. are saying warriors went to min size 10? If so do they still unlock venoms?
A: 5 is the minimum size but you can buy a raider to a unit that is 10+ big.

Q: Can an Archon have any AP2 weapon at all?
A: Not in Melee

Q: Which models can have a Venomblade?
A: Acothyst

Q: Are combat drugs an item that HQ's can buy from a list (like a Space marine captain can buy an Auspex), or is it directly bought within the entry? Can an Archon still buy it?
A: No drugs for archon

Q: Are Venoms and Raiders Fast Attacks as well as Dedicated Transports?
A: yes

Q: How have Incubi been changed?
A: No, but no way of getting assault grenades

Q:Are their Klaives now unwieldy?
A: No

Q: And what bonusses does the Klaivex now give?
A: He has Rampage

Q: What does soulblight do?
A: Sorry, soulfright:

At the end of shooting phase, a unit that has been hit by a weapon with that rule must make a Ld test. units takes wound with no armour or cover save for each point the test is failed by. Doesn't Work on Fearless and ATSKNF.

Both PGL and TGL has that.

PGL: range 18", S 1, AP-, assault 1, blast, soulfright
TGL: range 24", S 1, AP-, assault 1, blast, soulfright

Q: Does Urien still offer a S6 upgrade to Grots?
A: No.

Q: Stats on the wracks and grotesques? Also, Do they get FnP stock or earlier than other units?
A: The same... they start with FNP and...
Talos and Chronos start with FNP as well. And Chronos Spirit Probe gives DE unit within 6" +1 to FNP to a maximum of 4+

Q: Any shooting weapon options for Archon, like Blasters, Shardcarbines etc...
A: Yes

Q: Can Succubus take relics?
A: Yes

Q: Is Archon armor save 5+ or 3+
A: 5+

Q: Do Warrior squads come with Sybarites free?
A: No

Q: I heard from somewhere that each of them [Grotesques] now have flesh gauntlets, and can be equipped with liquefiers each. Any confirmation?
A: Confirmed!

Q: I do wish witches got something, hopefully they are dirt cheap.
A: 10 points each

All missiles have the blast or Large blast rule.

The void bomb is large blast now,

Dark scythes that the voidraven can get instead of voidlances are 24", S 8, AP2, Blast, lance.

Mandrakes cause fear as well. So they have: Fear, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move through cover, Night vision, PfP, Shrouded, stealth, Baleblast, CCW. 13 points. A very nice unit.

stats: 4 - 4- 4- 3- 1- 5- 2- 8

Archon can buy his own Venom, and blasterborn can have venoms as well.

RE Archon: Cant get a Raider, only venom.

Q: Could you detail Urien for us? Pt cost, stats, special rules, war gear?
A: 140 points, Gnarlskin, CCW, Ichor Injector (Fleshbane, Lethal dose), Clone Field, FNP(4+), It will not Die, Night Vision, Master of Pain (same as ordinary heamon - treat the current turn as being one higher that it actually is when determining special rules from PfP), PfP, Father of pain (Master of Pain rule affects all unit within 12", not just his own unit). Casket of Flensing: Range 12", S 3, AP 3, assault 2D6, One use.

Q: So talos moving up with cronos have 4+ fnp? Would say a unit of 2 cronos give 4+ fnp to each other?
A: No, it affect the chronos it self as well. So one Chronos with spitit probe has FNP 4+.

Q: Really liking the sound of grots though. Points stayed the same on them?
A: 35 points

Q: Can archon take a gun other than the blaster and relic?
A: Blast Pistol

Q: Also iirc urien's states were pretty good.. s5 t5 w5 right?
A: S3, T5, W3

Q: Do sslyths have the bulky rule?
A: No, just FnP and Fleet

Q: What is Raider capacity?
A: As before

Q: Can you take Warrior squad and IC in the same raider?
A: As before

Q: What about bloodbrides - what do they bring to the normal Wyches?
A: As before

Q: Who can take power lance?
A: No one, only Power Swords

Q: Do Razorwings comes with missiles?
A: As before

Q: So archon with court and lhaeman will make his agoniser 2+ poison ap3?
A: No, Lhamaean poison doesn't affect the archon.

Q: Scorpion, could you clarify if chronos has anything other than increasing FNP within 6"?
A: Nothing more. Same weapons as before. It starts with a spirit syphon and can buy spirit vortex and spirit vortex. Vortex ans syphon do the same as before.

Q: Whats your overall impressions army wide? Do we lost or do we gain via point costs and rules changes?
A: Thats one hell of a question. I havent played any 7th games yet so this is more a feeling than anything else.
We are going to see other units in play: Grots, Mandrakes, Scourges. Court.
I dont know if Venoms not having night shields is going to affect the Venom spam strategy.
Wyches are out, I cant see a use for them.
Beasts are NOT what they were. I think the WWP and DS Raiders, venoms and Ravengers are going to give us the suprise element in a game.
As Mushkilla mentioned in another post: its a new puzzle.

Q: Are Cronos still Monstrous Creatures?
A: Yes

Q: Do Lhamaeans still have their 2+ poisoned CCW?
A: Yes

Q:Also, is their cost the same?
A: 10 points

Q: Can I go with a Court full of Lhamaeans?
A: Yes, up to 12 of them

Q: Trueborn are min squadsize 5 correct? Are they otherwise unchanged?
A: Yes, they cost 11

Q: Are incubi also min squadsize 5?
A: 3

Q: Are splinter cannons more expensive for everything now? And what does the second cannon cost for the Venom?
A: 15 points, 10 points

Q: Do mandrakes have any non-cover-save save?
A: No

Q: What does a trilance Ravager cost?
A: 125. 110 with D.C. 5 points for each lance

Q: bloody hell thats ridiculous, so cout an be made up of 12 of any model?
A: Yes

Q: medusae have the ap3 s4 eye burst?
A: Yes

**Dash2021**

Exergy wrote:
Dash2021 wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
Wyches are better now because they get FNP much more easily and combat drugs are slightly more useful. They're just no longer the best vehicle-killers in 40k which they never should have been. Their Hekatrix can still get HW grenades though...

Reavers are better for their points IMO. Scourges are excellent. Urien Rakarth is a badass even without the supplement.

Incubi are better. They're -2 points, can still be taken in groups as little as three, and their Klaivex gets rampage. That guy can get 4+D3 attacks on the charge, WS6, I6, AP2.

Most things are better in the codex.

Wyches are pretty pointless now, tbh. FNP doesn't save them, because warriors get it just as easily, are cheaper, can shoot (and benefit from racks), and have at least some chance of surviving a wrecked vehicle; all while only being slightly worse in HtH. And, correct me if I'm wrong- the rumors are coming fast, Wracks are identical except for Toughness (which is higher), and Initiative (which is slightly lower)?

Wyches are MUCH better than Warriors in CC.
+1 init
+1 attack
4++ in CC
Plasma Grenades(so they actually strike first)
Combat Drugs (rumored to be +1WS, +1Attack, +1S, +1T, +1init, +1Ld)

I dont contend that Wyches are better than Warriors, but they are signifigantly better in CC than warriors.

They might also be better than Wracks, who get +1 toughness and probably posioned weapons but no combat drugs, shooting attack, grenades, invuln save, and much lower init.

Overall none of them are particularly good in CC, or worth their expensive point cost though.

Was going to debate that the Initiative boost doesn't matter (I5 goes after very little) and that the rest aren't a great deal considering being 25% more expensive.

But I honestly didn't put that much effort into the initial post, because it's a moot point. Wyches could be twice as good as warriors in CC, it wouldn't matter. Wyches cost more, are viable against fewer targets, and are not at all significantly better/as good against their intended target than warriors. They will be joining Howling Banshees on shelves to collect dust.

**Red Corsair**

mercury14 wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
I think grots are nice but they will still get hard countered by wraithknights, so kill that guy first. I actually like the court more.

Is the bar here really going to be that a S10 AP2 gun can kill a 35-point model? Really?

I don't think they're hard-countered by wraithknights at all though. Two wraithcannons, one will probably miss. Then assuming a '1' is not rolled to wound, they might still get cover. And if an average of one Grot dies and the WK's shooting is done, so what? That seems not too bad for the DE player to me.

One wraith Knight with the obvious prescience he will get should shoot two dead, then Hammer of wraith ID another, then swing with 4 attacks at initiative five all ID'ing them.... Sorry but a Wraith Knight moves faster and is much cheaper then a decent sized grot unit and will absolutely hard counter them. Literally every attack they make ID the grots. Grots are cool, but someone mentioned them scaring away riptides and WK's which isn't true (not saying it was you).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mercury14 wrote:
Auswin wrote:
I don't think the Hydra gauntlets are that terrible. +1 attack and being two CC weapons gives 4 on the charge for that wych, with shred.

It's a 100% increase over a standard wych with better chance to wound.

The other two are underwhelming.

Yeap, Hydra gauntlets are the best and not bad at all.

5 Wyches, Hydra gauntlets, Hekatrix w/someweapon and haywire grenades, Venom. That's a tad over 100 pts and worth it IMO if your attack plan includes assault.

Still worse in every phase compared to warriors who are cheaper, no reason to ever take wyches besides them looking sexy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
I think grots are nice but they will still get hard countered by wraithknights, so kill that guy first.

Grotesques themselves ARE the thing killing Wraithknights. You have the order of who's afraid of who in that fight backwards.

This is so wrong.

**Amishprn86**

So... Almost no Haywire, more costly DL's on vehicles ... how are we suppose to deal with vehicles and Knights?

No TL lances, No Haywire grenades and no Ignore cover... what are we a Supplement for Eldar now? Thats how I feel.

Dont get me wrong, Im going to keep playing DE and find a playable list or 2, but from the way it looks, I will have to Ally in Anti-Tank.

EDIT: It takes 36 DL's to kill a knight (on average)

**Red Corsair**

Amishprn86 wrote:
So... Almost no Haywire, most costly DL's on vehicles ... how are we suppose to deal with vehicles and Knights?

No TL lances, No Haywire grenades and no Ignore cover... what are we a Supplement for Eldar now? Thats how I feel.

Dont get me wrong, Im going to keep playing DE and find a playable list or 2, but from the way it looks, I will have to Ally in Anti-Tank.

5 scourge with 4 haywire blasters is 120 points. That is 5 points less then 5 haywire wyches in a venom and goes to work turn 1 from a safe distance with the SAME effect. Thats your AT.

**Amishprn86**

Red Corsair wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
So... Almost no Haywire, most costly DL's on vehicles ... how are we suppose to deal with vehicles and Knights?

No TL lances, No Haywire grenades and no Ignore cover... what are we a Supplement for Eldar now? Thats how I feel.

Dont get me wrong, Im going to keep playing DE and find a playable list or 2, but from the way it looks, I will have to Ally in Anti-Tank.

5 scourge with 4 haywire blasters is 120 points. That is 5 points less then 5 haywire wyches in a venom and goes to work turn 1 from a safe distance with the SAME effect. Thats your AT.

Yeah I forgot about them so 2 units for sure.... But they are kinda a 1 hit wonder, you get 1 good shot off then they will die. Batter make it count

**Red Corsair**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
So... Almost no Haywire, most costly DL's on vehicles ... how are we suppose to deal with vehicles and Knights?

No TL lances, No Haywire grenades and no Ignore cover... what are we a Supplement for Eldar now? Thats how I feel.

Dont get me wrong, Im going to keep playing DE and find a playable list or 2, but from the way it looks, I will have to Ally in Anti-Tank.

5 scourge with 4 haywire blasters is 120 points. That is 5 points less then 5 haywire wyches in a venom and goes to work turn 1 from a safe distance with the SAME effect. Thats your AT.

Yeah I forgot about them so 2 units for sure.... But they are kinda a 1 hit wonder, you get 1 good shot off then they will die. Batter make it count

I agree but it's not like haywire wyches were any different and were way harder to use actually. Then consider the formation will let you take 6 of those units. thats only 720 points for 24 haywire shots or ~14 HP's a turn before cover. Thats insane.

**Hollismason**

I didn't think Haywire worked on Knights, unless that was lances..

**Exergy**

Hollismason wrote:
I didn't think Haywire worked on Knights, unless that was lances..

haywire worked on knights just fine. It was a fantastic way to bring them down.

Scourges are pretty good, if 4 with haywire blasters is indeed 120 points. You will obivously have to double up(or triple), or more to ensure the kill on a knight(gotta split the shield). But DSing within 24" is not hard. Nor is it nessisarily a suicide squad. Hell you might not even have to DS. Move 12" Shoot 24 gives you a pretty good threat range.

**SHUPPET**

All our AT is pretty much 1 hit wonders.

However, 3 slots of Scourges being mandatory.... I'm not so sure it's a great replacement for up to 6x HWG Wyches...

Court might be nice now, can we still get Wrack troops? I know they've written out all FOC changing rules since unbound was released. Because while Venoms are still definitely the best source of Splinter weaponry in the dex, night shields or not, it's pretty highly dependant on having units worth taking to bring them. E.g. Wyches suck, WArriors don't fit, Grots don't fit, I mean what other infantry is there? 3x Venom in the Elite slot might be all we get, which is a horrible nerf and basically makes the template for every single DE list begin with FA slots maxed with Scourge spam and Elite slots maxed with wrack spam, just so you are taking 6 of the most efficient units in the dex, and then ofc 2 min sized squads of Warriors, making the only slots really open for tweaking is the HQ and Heavy.

I don't know, just these changes seem like they might make this the most linear dex released by GW to date. And I'm saying that as someone who plays Tyranids. DE by nature requires spam, we are glass cannons, if you take 1 or 2 of everything, all you are doing is ensuring that the most threatening stuff dies first, you need to win a war of attrition. Making the spam so much more restrictive can only be a bad thing, great troops was what we thrived on.

**Dash2021**

Scourges are going to be amazing for what they bring, and the formation is just going to make them that much more popular.

And allying in (why wouldn't you?), you can DS Fire Dragons or WG on top of whatever you want.

If these rumors turn out to be relatively accurate, this is going to be one hell of a supplement for Eldar

@Shuppet: Think you're reading that wrong, Warriors can be min 5 man. I'm pretty sure there's a clarification burried that says the 10+ was in regards to Warriors being able to take a raider as a DT, even when they are over 10 models. Still have min 5 man squads available. Venom Spam will be alive and well, no fears.

**Exergy**

SHUPPET wrote:
All our AT is pretty much 1 hit wonders.

However, 3 slots of Scourges being mandatory.... I'm not so sure it's a great replacement for up to 6x HWG Wyches...

I don't know, just these changes seem like they might make this the most linear dex released by GW to date. And I'm saying that as someone who plays Tyranids. DE by nature requires spam, we are glass cannons, if you take 1 or 2 of everything, all you are doing is ensuring that the most threatening stuff dies first, you need to win a war of attrition. Making the spam so much more restrictive can only be a bad thing, great troops was what we thrived on.

The problem with taking too many scourges, is what happens after you run out of meaningful armor to glance to death. You end up with 4 wound catchers for one guy with a shard carbine. At least they are fast, and by DE standards, durable.

**axisofentropy**

Exergy wrote:

The problem with taking too many scourges, is what happens after you run out of meaningful armor to glance to death.

Does this ever happen in 7th? And doesn't the other half of your army full of poison cover it?

(not rhetorical I really don't know)

**Azreal13**

Exergy wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
I think grots are nice but they will still get hard countered by wraithknights, so kill that guy first.

Grotesques themselves ARE the thing killing Wraithknights. You have the order of who's afraid of who in that fight backwards.

Really? Wraithknight would strike first and Instant Death each Grotesque with it's Str 10, negating their FnP.

are Wraithknights Init 5 or do they somehow always stay in cover? I thought they were init 4. A unit of grots has a good chance to go simo with a wraithknight, who will miss with half of his attacks. Might kill several grots, but each grot is going to bring some pain. Lots of ID going around.

Rough rule of thumb with most of the CE book is to take what you think is reasonable, then make it at least one notch better.

**BlaxicanX**

I'm not too worried about AV. Very few armies these days even pack massive armor saturation, sans MSU marines. I think that with a 12" move and 24 inch guns, a mere two min-sized Scourge units combining their fire will reliably point and click remove one vehicle a turn from the board. Keep them in cover, and I think most players won't expend the firepower nescesary to wipe them out so long as you've got plenty of Raiders filled with rape-train grotesques up in their grill.

Overall, it seems to me that scourges and grotesques are the stars of the codex right now. I don't think Reavers are salvageable unless their bladevanes are utterly ridiculous, something like D3 str6 rending HoW attacks per caltrop. Wyches got tervigon'd, warriors got a lateral shift, archons and succubi are tax for getting deep-striking stuff. Taloi... idk. They're my favorite unit in the codex, but the actual obstacle preventing them from fulfilling their role (lack of mobility) was not addressed at all. I'll probably take them in a squad of three and use them in a role similar to dakka-fex.

Still don't like ravagers. Three lances are only putting one glance on av12 per turn on average- that they're even more expensive is disgusting.

Need more info on the flyers before making a judgment call. Their armaments need to be reeeeeally good to justify 160 points on an av10 chassis, and a single ap2 small blast isn't going to cut it (though another part of me is glad that more ap2 large blasts aren't being added into the game).

**jimkurtjimmy**

The new void mine is large blast. (Per fairly reliable rumor)