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**Red Corsair**

That is a very good question.

**AdeptSister**

So how do Kabals compete again? The supplement sounds 100% better.

**Red Corsair**

AdeptSister wrote:
So how do Kabal's compete again? The supplement sounds 100% better.

I am going to be playing coven for sure. Was always my favorite but now the incentive is too strong to pass up.

**Grarg**

Info from the Coven Supplement from EvilSpaceElves on TheDarkCity.et:

From a 100% reliable source wishing to remain anonymous (confirmed by pics):
COVEN Supplement

Power from pain - by turn number.
1 – nothing
2 – Fearless
3 – Fear, Fearless
4 – Fear, Fearless, it will not die
5 – Fear, It will not die, zealot
6+ - Eternal Warrior, fear, it will not die, zealot

This is a straight copy from the book - yes some of the powers are omitted on purpose as they are not listed in the chart every turn

Warlord chart
1 – talos & chronos reroll FNP rolls of 1 within 12”of warlord
2 – warlord plus any grotesques he joins gain it will not die
3 – add or subtract 1 from reserve rolls
4 – If your warlord is slain by an attack/weapon with AP 1 or 2 or with the ID rule, gain D3 VP
5 – Warlord plus wracks he joins gain FNP4+
6 – Warlord gains preferred enemy

Artifacts
10pts – pick one of the following at the start of your turn which lasts until your next turn – IWND, fleet, poisoned 4+, rampage (used each turn)
10pts – fighting in a challenge – opponent suffers -5 to initiative
25pts – 8”range, S1, AP2, assault 1, blast, instant death, no effect on vehicles (used as a grenade in shooting phase)
10pts – Additional D6 attacks at S3, AP- at initiative 10, grant an additional pile in move at this step, no bonus applicable for furious charge, rending etc
20pts – IWND 4+, only wounded by poisons special rule on 6
35pts - +1 to FNP rolls, negate first wound suffered if it has the ID rule but when this happens, the item is lost

Coven Detachment
Required – 2HQ, 2 Elite
Optional – 4HQ, 6 Elite, 4 Heavy Support
Units that are available in the detachment – Urien, Haemonculus, Raider (DT only), Venom (DT only), Wracks, grotesques, talos, chronos
Benefits – if this is the primary detachment you can reroll warlord chart from this book. All enemy units within 12”of 1 or more models from this detachment suffer -1LD

7(!!!) formations as well!

**Dryaktylus**

Fishboy wrote:

If warlord is slain by weapon with ID ap1 or ap2 you score D3 victory points

Okay, this is kinda funny.

"Take this, ghastly creature!"
"Aaaahrgh.... Thank you, fool!"

**SarisKhan**

Is it possible to take a main Codex detachment with a formation from a Supplement?

**BlaxicanX**

Those formations...

- - - -

Also, I was indeed wrong about Hammer of Wrath. It's just one HoW attack per model charging, so yeah, not quite as good.

**Dash2021**

Was going to say something about the PfP section of the formation losing any FnP bonuses, and that it made a difficult trade off. Then went back through the rumors and realized Wracks/Grots/Tali get FnP stock.

Wow. Just....wow. I feel super bad for orks now. Hey, you know how your thing is large hordes of cheap, durable models marching up the field. Yea, we do that better. But how's mob rule working out for ya?

With some VERY minor positioning and planning, you can have a horde army with 4+ FnP, Fearless, T4-6 models from turn 1.

If this is indeed accurate rumormongering, this Codex is bringing the heat. Given GW's legendarily constant writing, I fear for the BA codex. 50 point terminators and mandatory challenging inc.

**BlaxicanX**

Feel bad for Orks? feth Orks. I feel bad for non-Coven Dark Eldar LOL. They got royally fething screwed.

**Saldiven**

Sigh.

If only they could have made Wyches as interesting as they're making the Coven.

Wyches have always been my favorite part of the army, ever since I started playing DE in 2002.

**jamopower**

Colpicklejar wrote:
jamopower wrote:
Fishboy wrote:

Court is nice especially considering using a WWP with it. Medusa are 25 points each but OMG they would be super nasty hehe. I think GW actually did a pretty good job with this list and I already see options that make them real winners with combos. Serpent spam will still be tough but there are some great anti vehicle punch units and some very nice anti psy wargear that will help out. DS into GK or seer council, take the wargear that causes perils on doubles, and the wargear that reduces leadership).

You seem to forget that these wwp-deepstrike units cost 200-300 points (the archon will cost by himself 150+ points with shadowfield and about 200 with all of the fear stuff) and die on the next turn they arrive as they're still just t3 5+ save guys.

Archon with webway portal, shadowfield, and an agonizer is 155 pts, and I think the agonizer isn't exactly necessary if his entire job is to escort and then maybe tank wounds with his shadowfield. Getting an archon up to 200 points is ridiculous.

Sslyth are 25 points a piece for T5, 2 wounds, and feel no pain. They also have a shardcarbine, ST 5, and 5 attacks on the charge. That combined with the shadowfield is how the court survives.

So it is 150+ and with the anti psyker and negative leadership stuff in the quote, that would be over 200 points. The court with three medusae (the most flamers you can shoot from the deepstrike) and four sslyths (to make majority toughness 5) would be 175 points. So over 300 points(and almost 400 points with the fear stuff) for your three s4 ap3 flamers with some non power weapon guys that might live to the next turn. Good luck with them

i'm also amazed that they could make the hellions even more bad. Good to remember with them is also that it's very hard to get cover with them as they fly over most obstacles. They weren't particularly good in the current codex either after the fifth edition, but at least you could make them troops and/or buff them with the baron (and even without him, get grenades). Now they're just very expensive and cool models that were time consuming to paint and horrible to transport. Gaming abilities are very minor. One more reason not to get the new codex.

**axisofentropy**

Is the coven supplement available only in the sold-out Archon edition codex for now?

**pretre**

axisofentropy wrote:
Is the coven supplement available only in the sold-out Archon edition codex for now?

Until they release it in a couple weeks, yes.

**Accolade**

Covens sound quite good. How much more do we have to pay to get access to the "good rules"?

**ClockworkZion**

More from the Dark City:

Q: so lelith is trash?
A: For 15 pts she can get an Impaler allowing hernto re-roll 1's to wound...

Q: Has anything changed in reaver profiles?
A: No

Q: Every Stat the same like armor save?
A: Yes

Q: Unitbsize 3-10?
A: 3-12

Q: Bladevane gone?
A: Bladevane gies HoW S4, Rending

Q: Other then webway portals deepstriking, no scatter. Once its on the table does it act like it used to, any reserve can enter pls through it?
A: Nope, no other use than DS without scatter.

Q: What is the Detachment in the Codex?
A: 1-2HQ, 2-6Troops, 0-3Elite, 1-6 FA, 0-3 Heavy

Q: What are the special rules for flocks?
A: 3W, 4 A, rending, swarms

Q: What are the special rules for khymera?
A: S4 T4, deamon

Q: What are the special rules for fiends?
A: Rage

Q: What are the special rules for Beastmasters?
A: same but... any beastmaster can get power swords/ Agonisers for 15/25 points. Imagine 12 of them with agonisers. Very expensive but alot of 4+ poison, AP 3 attacks

Q: Isn't the Solitaire a unique Harlequin troupe master?
A: Solitaire = Solarite (scourge champion).

Q: What the changes to hellions, if any? Did the price go down as rumored?
A: 13 p

Q: Are the Helliarch weapon/options still the same?
A: champion can take PGL. hellglaive: +1S, AP5, two handed. Stunclaw: +1S, AP6, ID in challenges

Q: What about Drazhar what happened to him? Did he change?
A: Short answer: yes. No jumping around anymore, can only join Incubi and gives them..... +1 WS. Rampage, otherwise the same.

Q: So hellglaives no longer count as two CCW's?
A: No

Q: Clawed fiends used to have 4 wounds and 4 attacks.... Curious most about the wounds.
A: 3W, 4A

Q: I can DS 6 Scoruge squads without scatter with 4 HB. My real question is can I bring 3 2 man Haemy squads then split them or just 2 HQ's?
A: Just 2 HQs so only 2 of these 6 sourge units can DS without scatter and only if Hemon joins them and have WWP (35p).

Q: Can you please give more details about sslyth? Still 2 wounds? Armor save? Still 35 points? Attacks?
A: Same as before, FnP and Fleet

Q: Do you see any way to make wracks troops?
A: No

Q: Can I take a soul-trap on a Succubus?
A: No

Q: What is the point cost for a blaster in a squad of Kabalites?
A: 15 for blaster, 15 for SC and 20 for DL

Q: Can Bloodbrides take haywire grenades for the entire squad due to them being a squad of hekatrix?
A: nope, only the champion can.

Q: Are wracks the same as before? Points? Stats? Special equipment? Min squad size?
A: the same stats, yes. minimum size 5. 10p. 15 p for LG, 15p for Ossefactor. Acothyst 10p. Acothyst can get Mindphase gauntlet, Flesh G, Sciccorhand, Venom blade, Electro whip. Agoniser, Stinger Hexrifle, LG. Hexrifle is ok now, Sniper, AP4, Precision shot gives ID. So it becomes AP2, ID when that 6 to hit is rolled. thats not bad for 10p.

Q: what is the cost for a klaivex and did his weapons or stats change?
A: incubi are 20 p each now. 3-10 unit size. Klaive is the same, 10p, and same weapon 15p for demiklaives

Q: Can the Succubus take the Huskblade?
A: No, only Archon

Q: The HB is rumored at 25 points, confirm?
A: 25p, confirmed

Q: The rumor I heard was that sslyth are now 25 points... true or are they 35 still?
A: 25 is correct

Q: Most armies updated to 7th lost access to pinning, even the sniper rule lost it. Is sad.
A: Our necrotoxin missiles did that in the old codex, right? Well its gone now.

Q: Webway portals aren't unique?
A: Nope, not unique

Q: Does the Cronos fnp arua thing affect only dark eldar?
A: Only affects DE

Q: Are raiders/venoms etc available in the fast attack choices?
A: And both are fast choices as well.

Q: Do the DE still have Night Vision?
A: Yes

We now have 2 items that give -2 Ld to nearby enemy units. Within 6" and 9". So even with Ld 10 som pinning tests would be great!.

**Ovion**

Accolade wrote:
Covens sound quite good. How much more do we have to pay to get access to the "good rules"?

+GB£30 for the Supplement.

So GB£60 for Codex + Supplement once released in a few weeks.

**Red Corsair**

I love the warlord trait that gains you d3 victory points for a glorious death lol. At worst it washes with slay the warlord with the possibility of going ahead of them just for dying

**mercury14**

Hellions. Wow.

Anyone who complains about Wyches being underwhelming should take a look at Hellions.

**Exergy**

jamopower wrote:

i'm also amazed that they could make the hellions even more bad. Good to remember with them is also that it's very hard to get cover with them as they fly over most obstacles. They weren't particularly good in the current codex either after the fifth edition, but at least you could make them troops and/or buff them with the baron (and even without him, get grenades). Now they're just very expensive and cool models that were time consuming to paint and horrible to transport. Gaming abilities are very minor. One more reason not to get the new codex.

They werent good in 3rd, they werent good in 5th, they arent good in 7th. How many units have been consistently bad for 20 years?

**ClockworkZion**

So Bloodbrides can't all roll with Haywires, just the unit Champ. So Haywire Wyches are in fact dead.

**Colpicklejar**

Happy for the coven players. Not really my bag at all, but it looks decent.

Honestly I know that there was a lot of bellyaching in the beginning but I can see both of these rulesets being very scary.

**ClockworkZion**

Exergy wrote:
jamopower wrote:

i'm also amazed that they could make the hellions even more bad. Good to remember with them is also that it's very hard to get cover with them as they fly over most obstacles. They weren't particularly good in the current codex either after the fifth edition, but at least you could make them troops and/or buff them with the baron (and even without him, get grenades). Now they're just very expensive and cool models that were time consuming to paint and horrible to transport. Gaming abilities are very minor. One more reason not to get the new codex.

They werent good in 3rd, they werent good in 5th, they arent good in 7th. How many units have been consistently bad for 20 years?

Celestians say hi.

**Exergy**

mercury14 wrote:
Hellions. Wow.

Anyone who complains about Wyches being underwhelming should take a look at Hellions.

but they were never good, arent a troop choice, and are kind of a fringe DE unit.

after being so unpopular for so long i expect them to eventually get dropped from the range at some point. That or massively buffed in 9th

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Red Corsair wrote:
I love the warlord trait that gains you d3 victory points for a glorious death lol. At worst it washes with slay the warlord with the possibility of going ahead of them just for dying

HURT ME MORE!

**Dash2021**

jamopower wrote:

So it is 150+ and with the anti psyker and negative leadership stuff in the quote, that would be over 200 points. The court with three medusae (the most flamers you can shoot from the deepstrike) and four sslyths (to make majority toughness 5) would be 175 points. So over 300 points(and almost 400 points with the fear stuff) for your three s4 ap3 flamers with some non power weapon guys that might live to the next turn. Good luck with them

i'm also amazed that they could make the hellions even more bad. Good to remember with them is also that it's very hard to get cover with them as they fly over most obstacles. They weren't particularly good in the current codex either after the fifth edition, but at least you could make them troops and/or buff them with the baron (and even without him, get grenades). Now they're just very expensive and cool models that were time consuming to paint and horrible to transport. Gaming abilities are very minor. One more reason not to get the new codex.

Not at all entirely sure what this discussion is about, but to address an important point about WW portal from the leaks. It allows accurate DS of a unit, and their transport. So you can take 100% madusae if you wanted, slap them all in a raider, DS the raider, and disembark as a raider is now essentially a mobile drop pod. You wouldn't even necessarily need a WW portal for that.

You could even keep them all in the Raider and just flame from it. Running around flaming out of a raider/venom w/ AP3 is no joke.

Your comment about points vs. effect is probably accurate though. If only there were some sort of super raider to make them more survivable. One, perhaps, unlocked by a sort of Uber archon. Perhaps even give that guy a name and some lore.....Maybe I'm just wish listing though.

**Exergy**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Exergy wrote:
jamopower wrote:

i'm also amazed that they could make the hellions even more bad. Good to remember with them is also that it's very hard to get cover with them as they fly over most obstacles. They weren't particularly good in the current codex either after the fifth edition, but at least you could make them troops and/or buff them with the baron (and even without him, get grenades). Now they're just very expensive and cool models that were time consuming to paint and horrible to transport. Gaming abilities are very minor. One more reason not to get the new codex.

They werent good in 3rd, they werent good in 5th, they arent good in 7th. How many units have been consistently bad for 20 years?

Celestians say hi.

not saying they dont exist, but they are mighty rare

**mercury14**

Exergy wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
Hellions. Wow.

Anyone who complains about Wyches being underwhelming should take a look at Hellions.

but they were never good, arent a troop choice, and are kind of a fringe DE unit.

after being so unpopular for so long i expect them to eventually get dropped from the range at some point. That or massively buffed in 9th

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Red Corsair wrote:
I love the warlord trait that gains you d3 victory points for a glorious death lol. At worst it washes with slay the warlord with the possibility of going ahead of them just for dying

HURT ME MORE!

Hellions should be single-digit points or get a jink save with skilled rider. They're that far away from being adequate.

**jamopower**

Hellions were great in fifth edition with Baron buffs, pain tokens and the majority cover rules still in effect.

Also medusae in venom have been one of my favourite units for a long time. Sad that the medusae were actually also nerfed. +10 points and the strenght d6+1 and ap d6 was better than s4 ap3. Only bonus is that you don't have to pay the llhamean and ur-ghul tax anymore.

**Grimdark**

So... if all I wanted from a Dark Eldar force was lots of cool looking pirate/raider units skimming around the battlefield shooting poisonous stuff (warrior and trueborns) with some wytches, ravagers and reavers (bladevane was so cool. Not saying good, just cool). Maybe a beastpack if I find good looking proxies.

How does it look like? Would I need some Eldar help for anti-tank?

I could maybe pick up two units of haywire scourges, but I'm mainly into Deldar for the non-coven stuff

**jamopower**

I can recommend you getting the current codex from ebay next week and building your force from that book

**Fishboy**

axisofentropy wrote:
Fishboy wrote:

Cool one is 1 each of hamy talos and cronos. This is fielded as a single unit so the hammy is in with the MC . They get +1 WS and I and hamy auto gets warlord trait

This sounds like a big deal. Obvious question: can the hamy take the webway portal to deep strike this unit?

There are no stipulations on how you can wargear up your hamy so yep