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With the confirmation of Chaos psychic focus (psykers with mark of or daemon of a god get that primaris for free) chaos sorceror's got a huge boost. Now T6 nurgle and 3++ T5 Tzeentch sorcs are actually viable choices over unmarked ones.

Also, one of the hugest things is that rerolling psychic tests is going to be more important than it ever, and sorcs have cheap access to that for 15 points. I think that chaos sorcs are going to be one of, if not the, best psykers in the game. What are all your thoughts?

So you just get the Primaris, even if you don't roll on that table for anything else?

 Eldarain wrote:
So you just get the Primaris, even if you don't roll on that table for anything else?

Yep, they surprisingly helped out nerfed marked sorcerors.

You still have to roll once (and only once) on the table due to the mark rules itself. (well, ahriman can take 2 T powers if he for some crazy reason wants to)

It just means you get what you roll, plus the (mostly unimpressive) prime power.

A bone, but not a juicy one.

No the chaos focus is a definitely a nerf. Other psykers get their primeris for free if they take just all their powers from a single school. The chaos focus rule stops this dead.

Now unmarked chaos sorcerers with a familiar on the other hand are some of the best psykers in the game unless you want to use any of the daemonology powers.

Shame because I've just converted up a Nurgle sorceror on a bike.

 BoomWolf wrote:
You still have to roll once (and only once) on the table due to the mark rules itself. (well, ahriman can take 2 T powers if he for some crazy reason wants to)

It just means you get what you roll, plus the (mostly unimpressive) prime power.

A bone, but not a juicy one.

So being marked still prevents you from taking pure book powers and thus getting the primus power for free.

So a lvl 3 CSM sorc can be marked, get 4 powers, 2 from the book, 2 from his god
or he can be unmarked, and get 4 powers from one tree in the book, or 3 from a collection of trees in the book.

I think unmarked is still a lot better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 herpguy wrote:
Are Chaos Sorceror's the best non-named psykers in the game now?

Tzeench heralds are better

with Biomancy and a bike, you can get a S7 T9 Nurgle chap or a S7 T8 3++ Tzeentch fellow. Who said CSM lacked MC potential?

 Vector Strike wrote:
with Biomancy and a bike, you can get a S7 T9 Nurgle chap or a S7 T8 3++ Tzeentch fellow. Who said CSM lacked MC potential?

only 2 rolls on biomancy for either, so 1/3 of the time you wont even have that power to cast and when you do you have to successfully cast it.

Provided you do, you have 3 attacks with a force weapon. Not that scary.

well anything that Chaos Space marines get is fair n my book. They can use the boosts and I think 40K is poorer for the relative scarcity of true Chaos Space marine players.

I'll have to read the rule myself but I was under the impression the rulebook changed it so you don't have to take a codex power anymore. Unmarked is probably still better. Rerolling psychic tests is really what makes them shine. I would love to get a T8 Sorc and/or Spawn with a 4+ FnP.

 Exergy wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
with Biomancy and a bike, you can get a S7 T9 Nurgle chap or a S7 T8 3++ Tzeentch fellow. Who said CSM lacked MC potential?

only 2 rolls on biomancy for either, so 1/3 of the time you wont even have that power to cast and when you do you have to successfully cast it.

Provided you do, you have 3 attacks with a force weapon. Not that scary.

4 if you keep a pistol, but I agree it won't be everytime. I think unmarked will be better to get it... S8 4++ is good too

 Jancoran wrote:
well anything that Chaos Space marines get is fair n my book. They can use the boosts and I think 40K is poorer for the relative scarcity of true Chaos Space marine players.

QFT.

Chaos will get better as soon as the assault rules change.

Right now, they cripple the basic function of the army which is MAIM, SLASH, BURN. You can't do that in a game where the meta is WAIT, SHOOT, TURN.

Speaking of Chaos psykers, how does the new rules affect Huron? With his randomly generated psychic power, does he still get Psychic focus and a new primaris + a random power each turn?

As others have said, Tzeentch sorcerers are still the worst, nurgle second worst, Slaanesh is decent, and unmarked is the best of the bunch although really has gained nothing. I guess you could say Ksons got a slight buff but it's basically nothing

For Chaos Space Marines maybe , Chaos Daemons got a really great buff.

GrafWattenburg wrote:Speaking of Chaos psykers, how does the new rules affect Huron? With his randomly generated psychic power, does he still get Psychic focus and a new primaris + a random power each turn?

That'd be weird. They'll launch a FAQ regarding CSMs, and Huron is a prime candidate to show up there

I think that being able to reroll psychic tests is what really puts CSM sorcs ahead of the pack as far as psykers go. Rerolling is a really rare trait and with psychic tests being a lot harder to pull off I think that CSM psykers will shine. No other race can get cheap access to rerolling psychic tests other than Tigurius (at least I think so?).

 Eldarain wrote:
So you just get the Primaris, even if you don't roll on that table for anything else?

You have to roll everything on the malefic table I believe.

Rerolling psychic tests for 15/25pts is the bossest of bosses.

The trouble with Marked Sorcerers getting the God Discipline primaris as a bonus is you're STUCK with Boon of Mutation if you roll it.
Not a benefit, way I see it.

I'm liking an Inquisitor with Null Rod. Immune to all that crap while still being able to do anything except blessings.
It's really fun to be able to laugh at those Vortexes of Doom.

-Matt

 Vector Strike wrote:

GrafWattenburg wrote:Speaking of Chaos psykers, how does the new rules affect Huron? With his randomly generated psychic power, does he still get Psychic focus and a new primaris + a random power each turn?

That'd be weird. They'll launch a FAQ regarding CSMs, and Huron is a prime candidate to show up there

I would love to see Huron simply know everything from Biomancy / Pyromancy.

His randomness is one of the main reasons he doesn't see much play to begin with, if he had his rules adjusted to actually benefit him and compliment those around him, he wouldn't be so bad. Right now he's basically a cheaper version of Ahriman who can't reliably cast spells, only ever taken as an Infiltrating Warlod Trait. After that he's basically kept on the back lines or with a LR + Zerker squad (Which never happens LOL)

I will be using an unmarked sorcerer with ML3 a spell familiar and prophet of the voices.

The best non-named psyker in the game now is this guy... I call him Diablo.

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - 160 pts
Psyker (Mastery 3) - 75 pts
Power Armor (3+ save) - 20 pts
Wings to be an FMC - 40 pts
Aura of Dark Glory - 15 pts
Spell Familiar - 15 pts
The Black Mace - 45 pts
Being a lightning-blasting, troop-butchering, vehicle-detonating, character-murdering, self-sustaining, insta-gibbing Demon Ninja Wizard Fortress - Priceless

There are some things GW can't balance. For everything else, there is Chaos MC.

The Biomancy powers are so great that they're essentially begging to be abused.
Imagine this list gets generated on a rank 3 DP, and they're not even the best powers:
- Tzeentch Firestorm (free)
- Doombolt (anti-vehicle)
- Life Leech (self-healing)
- Smite (anti-infantry)
They're all Warp Charge 1 meaning you can spam the lot of them each turn with no risk of Perils. Anytime you fail the Psychic Test with 1 dice, you just reroll it with Spell Familiar. Denies can happen, but this guy commands an army of psykers.

For 370 pts, you can have your very own one creature army that is capable of annihilating anything you point it at, possesses the tools necessary to handle vehicles/heavies/zergs even FLYERS, carries a weapon that ALWAYS wounds on a 2+ roll, boasts hellish staying power with the ability to reroll any 1s rolled on saves, can restore its own health back to its FOUR wound maximum, and can easily challenge anyone to a duel and WIN.

Just for good measure, he can strongly Deny enemy Sanctic powers or nuke far away units for FREE while stalking your next prey! Who needs Bolters when you have a mental machine gun?

I forgot that CSM DPs can take spell familiars, good catch!

However, aura of dark glory is pointless and assault FMCs are nerfed so I would leave the black mace at home.

However, a CSM DP with: 3 MLs, Armor, Spell Familiar, wings, is still running you 295 points. That's still pretty pricey for something that really can't do much besides just stay in the air, even though I guess you can shoot unlimited witchfires now, but I highly doubt you'll get more than 1 powers off per turn. I still think Be'Lakor is a better choice, because Invisibility is hands down the best power in the game now.

What does the Aura do for him that Daemon isn't already providing?

Also I thought you only get the free Primaris if you generate all your spells from one discipline.

 herpguy wrote:
I forgot that CSM DPs can take spell familiars, good catch!

However, aura of dark glory is pointless and assault FMCs are nerfed so I would leave the black mace at home.

However, a CSM DP with: 3 MLs, Armor, Spell Familiar, wings, is still running you 295 points. That's still pretty pricey for something that really can't do much besides just stay in the air, even though I guess you can shoot unlimited witchfires now, but I highly doubt you'll get more than 1 powers off per turn. I still think Be'Lakor is a better choice, because Invisibility is hands down the best power in the game now.

Can't you cast Invisibility twice per turn if it's ML 2? Or are there restrictions on how many times you can cast the same ability now, even when it's not on the same unit.

Each psyker can only attempt to cast a specific power known once/turn, regardless of pass or fail.

Also psykers are limited to casting a number of powers equal to their Psyker Level every turn, so that DP of yours Kyutaru is only blasting with 3 witchfires/turn.

As for psychic focus and primaris powers regarding Chaos psykers, bottom of p.22
"Chaos Psychic Focus" - If the psyker in question has Mark of Chaos or Daemon of Chaos, she automatically knows the primaris power of the discipline that corresponds to their patron deity, in addition to any other powers known.
That's compensation for a Mark of Whoever Psyker never having regular Psychic Focus access, due to needing 1 power from her god-discipline.

 Laughingcarp wrote:
Each psyker can only attempt to cast a specific power known once/turn, regardless of pass or fail.

Also psykers are limited to casting a number of powers equal to their Psyker Level every turn, so that DP of yours Kyutaru is only blasting with 3 witchfires/turn.

As for psychic focus and primaris powers regarding Chaos psykers, bottom of p.22
"Chaos Psychic Focus" - If the psyker in question has Mark of Chaos or Daemon of Chaos, she automatically knows the primaris power of the discipline that corresponds to their patron deity, in addition to any other powers known.
That's compensation for a Mark of Whoever Psyker never having regular Psychic Focus access, due to needing 1 power from her god-discipline.

So basically, a Sorcerer of Tzeentch automatically knows Tzeentches Firestorm or w/e the Primaris power is, and can then roll on a different table since he knows 1 spell from the Tzeentch table?

No, he gets the primaris for free, but he is still required to roll 1 tzeentch power.