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People like different games for different reasons. And some people only have time for 1 distraction from real life.

I very much like the look of infinity, and watched some people play it at Adepticon. Seemed fun, enough.

However, I have a game I enjoy for the models and the story, and I only have hobby time for 1 game.

 frozenwastes wrote:
If anything the low model count of infinity should help the OP realize just how much 40k's model count has been artificially inflated to get as much money out of him as possible. You can have a great, deep gaming experience with far, far less of a cash squeeze.

Sure. But that 'great, deep gaming experience' will be a different type of game, because there is nothing else out there at the moment that is really suited to games the size of a 40K game. So for those who actually like playing bigger games, it's not a matter of 40K being 'artificially inflated' so much as 40K simply being designed for a different scale of game.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
But the people that are arguing that Infinity is more affordable than Warhammer 40K do have a very basic point - the amount of money that you need to spend, just to play the game as it is intended, is much lower for Infinity.

Sure. And I can buy a bicycle for much less money than a car. Which is great... unless I wanted a car.

Yes, Infinity is more affordable than 40K... but that's because it's a different type of game. For those who enjoy skirmish games, that's fine. But it's still a bit of an odd comparison.

 Fafnir wrote:
It's also worth noting that in a game of Infinity, each model is much more important than a single model in 40k, where most of them serve as little more than wound counters who take up space on a board, each model in infinity represents a variety of diverse combat options.

There is a reason some refer to the basic infantry models in Infinity as "cheerleaders". The order pool mechanic means that you end up being in a situation referred to as 'order starved' if you just take the high points, high special weapons cost models and ignore the cheerleaders.

On the other hand, not only does Infinity's ruleset limit the scope of battles, but the fluff also places harsh restrictions on the size of any given sortie in-universe.

Not true. Ariadna, home to the Antipode tribes, is pretty consistently having to deal with huge massed battles to put down Antipode "rebellions".
Same thing with the planet of Paradiso, where the Human Sphere is engaged in all out war with the Combined Army.

And that's not even really getting into the Tohaa v. Combined war going on outside of the Human Sphere.

With the revelations of 7th edition 40k loose in the world...

I told my buddy I wanted to try Infinity this weekend. I am going to use my 40k models to do so.

insaniak wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
If anything the low model count of infinity should help the OP realize just how much 40k's model count has been artificially inflated to get as much money out of him as possible. You can have a great, deep gaming experience with far, far less of a cash squeeze.

Sure. But that 'great, deep gaming experience' will be a different type of game, because there is nothing else out there at the moment that is really suited to games the size of a 40K game. So for those who actually like playing bigger games, it's not a matter of 40K being 'artificially inflated' so much as 40K simply being designed for a different scale of game.

Of course, the problem with this is that 40k doesn't really manage to do a good job of functioning at the scale it's 'designed' for.

Kanluwen wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
It's also worth noting that in a game of Infinity, each model is much more important than a single model in 40k, where most of them serve as little more than wound counters who take up space on a board, each model in infinity represents a variety of diverse combat options.

There is a reason some refer to the basic infantry models in Infinity as "cheerleaders". The order pool mechanic means that you end up being in a situation referred to as 'order starved' if you just take the high points, high special weapons cost models and ignore the cheerleaders.

That depends on how you spread your points, really. Furthermore, even the most basic cheerleader has the tools needed to be effective outside of order pooling, and offers a variety of tactical options for a low price.

On the other hand, not only does Infinity's ruleset limit the scope of battles, but the fluff also places harsh restrictions on the size of any given sortie in-universe.

Not true. Ariadna, home to the Antipode tribes, is pretty consistently having to deal with huge massed battles to put down Antipode "rebellions".
Same thing with the planet of Paradiso, where the Human Sphere is engaged in all out war with the Combined Army.

And that's not even really getting into the Tohaa v. Combined war going on outside of the Human Sphere.

But conflicts between forces within the human sphere are much more limited.

You're right in that the word 'any' is a bit of a stretch, but battles with factions that aren't the Tohaa or Combined army are fought at small scales. Antipodes don't count, since they're not even a faction.

jamesk1973 wrote:
With the revelations of 7th edition 40k loose in the world...
I told my buddy I wanted to try Infinity this weekend. I am going to use my 40k models to do so.

That's what I did. AROs can get a bit annoying, about as annoying as turning a corner and getting blasted in the face could possibly be. Also the orders mechanic is really neat when you think about it like an action movie. All of this just screams that I should love this game, but I've not been able to really get into it (I suppose that's what Gen Con is for).

I wanted to add that Infinity has probably the best 28mm models I have ever had the joy to paint. I've thought about picking up some CA models just to paint them.

jamesk1973 wrote:
With the revelations of 7th edition 40k loose in the world...

I told my buddy I wanted to try Infinity this weekend. I am going to use my 40k models to do so.

Yeah, do it.

It's just a rule set. Many of infinity's weapon profiles can be fairly well represented by a lot of 40k (or most generic sci if) stuff, eg assault rifles, grenade launchers, shotguns, rocket launchers, sniper rifles, etc.

Hope you find it fun.

 Fafnir wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
It's also worth noting that in a game of Infinity, each model is much more important than a single model in 40k, where most of them serve as little more than wound counters who take up space on a board, each model in infinity represents a variety of diverse combat options.

There is a reason some refer to the basic infantry models in Infinity as "cheerleaders". The order pool mechanic means that you end up being in a situation referred to as 'order starved' if you just take the high points, high special weapons cost models and ignore the cheerleaders.

That depends on how you spread your points, really. Furthermore, even the most basic cheerleader has the tools needed to be effective outside of order pooling, and offers a variety of tactical options for a low price.

Certainly but whether or not those basic cheerleaders get used as anything but order generators is a different story.
Which was the point I was making. Effectively the cheerleaders can, in some armies, be treated as nothing but ablative wounds.

On the other hand, not only does Infinity's ruleset limit the scope of battles, but the fluff also places harsh restrictions on the size of any given sortie in-universe.

Not true. Ariadna, home to the Antipode tribes, is pretty consistently having to deal with huge massed battles to put down Antipode "rebellions".
Same thing with the planet of Paradiso, where the Human Sphere is engaged in all out war with the Combined Army.

And that's not even really getting into the Tohaa v. Combined war going on outside of the Human Sphere.

But conflicts between forces within the human sphere are much more limited.

Well, that again is not strictly true. It is now in the timeline, but that has everything to do with O-12 and the new threat looming in the form of the Combined Army.

You're right in that the word 'any' is a bit of a stretch, but battles with factions that aren't the Tohaa or Combined army are fought at small scales. Antipodes don't count, since they're not even a faction.

Ehhhhhhhhhh...the Antipodes are a defining feature of Ariadna. They are the reason why you have different cultures in the Ariadnan nations.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
"Character" figures are more expensive, though, so probably you might get about 75 figures altogether, say 60 ordinary figures and 15 specials.

Except they aren't. Corvus Belli doesn't charge for effectivness, they charge for material used. Character models are the same price as any similarly sized model.

For example, Ajax and Tarik Mansuri are quite expensive, about what you'd pay for a remote individually. This is because they're both quite enormous, easily five times the metal of an infantry model. Whilst Achilles, arguably the most powerful infantry sized model in the game, costs the exact same amount as a Dakini Tacbot, a basic infantry that is the same size.

I know I am personally outraged that any company would try to cut into the margins of Games-Workshop by producing their own tabletop game. Games-Workshop invented the tabletop market, they have been market leaders for 25 years. For a company to have the gall as to produce another tabletop game should be measure enough that they should be scorned at all opportunities.

I mean, Games-Workshop has been working very hard on their Specialist Games, they just had to hide them from customers until they get them finished. And all we have to do is each buy a couple more 40k armies to show them how faithful we are. But no, we have been an ungrateful audience and Games-Workshop has witnessed this and provided a deserved punishment. They have increased costs to make-up for the fact that we haven't bought enough models, and they will continue to do so until we apologize and erase all mentions of any other, tawdry games like this so-called "Infinity."

The OP has made the message clear to us- forsake these foolish endeavors into heretical games and embrace your lords and masters at GW-London!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
It's also worth noting that in a game of Infinity, each model is much more important than a single model in 40k, where most of them serve as little more than wound counters who take up space on a board, each model in infinity represents a variety of diverse combat options.

There is a reason some refer to the basic infantry models in Infinity as "cheerleaders". The order pool mechanic means that you end up being in a situation referred to as 'order starved' if you just take the high points, high special weapons cost models and ignore the cheerleaders.

That depends on how you spread your points, really. Furthermore, even the most basic cheerleader has the tools needed to be effective outside of order pooling, and offers a variety of tactical options for a low price.

Certainly but whether or not those basic cheerleaders get used as anything but order generators is a different story.
Which was the point I was making. Effectively the cheerleaders can, in some armies, be treated as nothing but ablative wounds.

The point is that they still pack much more utility than most of the models on the table in a game of 40k.

If we are going to compare prices and model counts we should also consider historical games, that typically have larger models counts than 40K but are cheaper because the cost of historical figures is much cheaper.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If we are going to compare prices and model counts we should also consider historical games, that typically have larger models counts than 40K but are cheaper because the cost of historical figures is much cheaper.

Which has what to do with a 40k gamer 'ragging on Infinity players'?

 -Loki- wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If we are going to compare prices and model counts we should also consider historical games, that typically have larger models counts than 40K but are cheaper because the cost of historical figures is much cheaper.

Which has what to do with a 40k gamer 'ragging on Infinity players'?

Nothing, I guess. But the Hail Caesar minis are growing on me, and they're really cheap by comparison.

Also:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If we are going to compare prices and model counts we should also consider historical games, that typically have larger models counts than 40K but are cheaper because the cost of historical figures is much cheaper.

Which has what to do with a 40k gamer 'ragging on Infinity players'?

Which he says Infinity is not cheaper than 40K because you don't buy as many figures, implying that 40K is not expensive. Clearly that is not factually accurate, so his argument is false.

 Accolade wrote:
I know I am personally outraged that any company would try to cut into the margins of Games-Workshop by producing their own tabletop game. Games-Workshop invented the tabletop market, they have been market leaders for 25 years. For a company to have the gall as to produce another tabletop game should be measure enough that they should be scorned at all opportunities.

I mean, Games-Workshop has been working very hard on their Specialist Games, they just had to hide them from customers until they get them finished. And all we have to do is each buy a couple more 40k armies to show them how faithful we are. But no, we have been an ungrateful audience and Games-Workshop has witnessed this and provided a deserved punishment. They have increased costs to make-up for the fact that we haven't bought enough models, and they will continue to do so until we apologize and erase all mentions of any other, tawdry games like this so-called "Infinity."

The OP has made the message clear to us- forsake these foolish endeavors into heretical games and embrace your lords and masters at GW-London!

Lol i don't actually buy from GW. I buy old modle sfrom e-bay. What i am saying is that people buying Infinity Armies" aren't really buying armies. What they should be saying when they rage quit 40K is that they are going to sell off their warhammer armies for multiple squads of Infinity as thats the level it is played on. Saying you are buying 6 Infinity "Armies" is a huge exaggeration when its only 5-6 models in the starter and usually not more then 10 per side which is a squad.

The question remains, what's your point?

Some people refer to them as armies, you refer to them as squads, it still pertains to "collection of models that allows you to functionally and legally play a game" in this context, and in this context, Infinity is cheaper to achieve this aim than 40K in nearly all but the most convoluted terms.

Infinity doesn't interfere with my 40k vice that much - It can be a drain if you overreach or get dragged in the competitve scene, but same can be said of 40k. If you stay casual, you can play Infinity with minimal investment and still have time and cash for other games.

Truth be told, I see Infinity not as a replacement for 40k but as a nice throwback to the days of Warzone and Necromunda, skirmish games my former club played in between or during lenghty 40k leagues and campaigns. Now, I don't play Infinity anymore, but I really hope 3rd edition raises enough interest in my area to be able to play it again.

IDK man, the usual 40k army is pretty small to me if you compare them to real armies. You'd hardly call 50 men an "army". Does that mean we shouldn't be calling them armies?!?!!!!!?

This is actually quite painful to watch.

Really, someone needs to post that 'implied facepalm' Tommy Lee Jones de-motivational poster, and then the thread needs locking.

I don't understand why people are so resistant to trying new rule sets, especially free ones. I love trying new games to see their mechanics and how the designer approached things.

Not sure why it has to a comparison of apples to oranges between the model count of a skirmish game and a mass battle game though.

Actually I'm not even sure what the point of this thread was.

Or why I'm even posting in it.

I'm outraged different people can like different things!

People should all like the same things. Ideally we would all like GW-produced things!

I'm also outraged that I can have an "army" of 4 Imperial Knights in GW's Warhammer. It's not a proper army, it's not even a Knight Platoon!

Talk about false marketing.

Come to think of it, my 500 point armies that I used to play Combat Patrol with (10 Tacticals, 5 Assaults, Rhino, Captain) were not proper "armies" either! It's disgusting! Armies, as the name suggests, should have hundreds of models! Thousands, even!

Sold to us by our benevolent overlords.

I have a Russian army that contains about 4,000 figures. They are 6mm of course.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I have a Russian army that contains about 4,000 figures. They are 6mm of course.

Now that's a collection worthy of being called an Army!

 Ailaros wrote:

frozenwastes wrote:If anything the low model count of infinity should help the OP realize just how much 40k's model count has been artificially inflated to get as much money out of him as possible. You can have a great, deep gaming experience with far, far less of a cash squeeze.

You can play a draigowing with as few as 3 models. You can play eldar with as few as 7. You can play a deathwing with 11, same as orks, and tons of CSM options.

Welcome to the brave new world of model inflation...

Nice red herring there.

Whilst they are all "legal" armies in 40k, none of them can reach the required points costs of a standard game of 40k.

Kilkrazy wrote:has got six figures for €37 which is about £5 per figure so you could get 90 Infinity figures for the cost of the Knight Titans army.

But that's an absurd comparison.

It's like saying that if you want a cheap automobile, you should buy your next car from Mercedes because you can buy 10 Mercedes CLA's for the price of a single Honda HSV.

Boy, Honda sure makes some expensive cars, I can't imagine how poor people would ever be able to buy any...

Well, I guess it also depends on how you look at it. Yes, you need less miniatures to play Infinity so that's why it is cheaper than playing with a 40k army. yes they are two different types of games. But they both do the same thing which is allowing you to play a game (maybe allowing isn't the right word but you get the general idea). TIme is the most precious resource here and it doesn't matter if it's a hundred miniatures or 10 miniatures. If anyone is like me then they only have a limited time to spend on playing games at which point all of a sudden the comparison does come into play. Infinity costs a lot less for the same hours of enjoyment as 40k in the end, no matter how you turn or look at it.

Sure, you can get by with playing a low model count list in 40k but even then it usually gets a whole lot more expensive than playing Infinity purely on the basis of the difference in costs for the rules. All that aside, the whole difference between calling them squads or armies is rather a bit silly. I played 40k when it was a skirmish game still with low count of models and even then we called them armies. So the model count is not that important, it's just a name for a group of mini's needed to play a certain game to me. Again, maybe I'm a bit simplistic in my line of thought there.

Water is wet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xerics wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I know I am personally outraged that any company would try to cut into the margins of Games-Workshop by producing their own tabletop game. Games-Workshop invented the tabletop market, they have been market leaders for 25 years. For a company to have the gall as to produce another tabletop game should be measure enough that they should be scorned at all opportunities.

I mean, Games-Workshop has been working very hard on their Specialist Games, they just had to hide them from customers until they get them finished. And all we have to do is each buy a couple more 40k armies to show them how faithful we are. But no, we have been an ungrateful audience and Games-Workshop has witnessed this and provided a deserved punishment. They have increased costs to make-up for the fact that we haven't bought enough models, and they will continue to do so until we apologize and erase all mentions of any other, tawdry games like this so-called "Infinity."

The OP has made the message clear to us- forsake these foolish endeavors into heretical games and embrace your lords and masters at GW-London!

Lol i don't actually buy from GW. I buy old modle sfrom e-bay. What i am saying is that people buying Infinity Armies" aren't really buying armies. What they should be saying when they rage quit 40K is that they are going to sell off their warhammer armies for multiple squads of Infinity as thats the level it is played on. Saying you are buying 6 Infinity "Armies" is a huge exaggeration when its only 5-6 models in the starter and usually not more then 10 per side which is a squad.

The point of saying I can get 6 armies for the price of 1 GW army has nothing to do with model count.

It has to do with you get 6 unique armies that play differently. Allowing the player to have variety and be playable at the same cost.

It you are looking for a large scale war game or a beer and pretzels war game, Infinity is not for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I have a Russian army that contains about 4,000 figures. They are 6mm of course.

I thought my 10mm Napoleonic French army was impressive number.

Damn, that is awesome.

For what it's worth, 40k isn't a good 'beer and pretzels' game either. Not with a rulebook that massive and with that many errors and inconsistencies.

 Fafnir wrote:
For what it's worth, 40k isn't a good 'beer and pretzels' game either. Not with a rulebook that massive and with that many errors and inconsistencies.

I wasn't calling 40k Beer and Pretzels. Apologies if that is what I was making it out to be with my comment.

To clarify, one of the complaints or hesitations people have about Infinity is the steeper learning curve than most table top games.

If someone is making a point to find a quick, easy, and fun little minis games I would look past infinity.

If you wanna see 100+ minis on the table, then Infinity is not that game either.

But if you want the gold standard in sculpting quality, a dynamic game system that has more to it than "lets meet in the middle of the table and have a dice fest". Infinity could be your go to game.
Rules are free, that is all I can say regarding that.