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Made in tr
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





I am with scipio on this one. I am fine with pictures but it just seems too much.

The shooting phase is 2 pages longer then it was in 6th. (10-8)

The movement phase is 2 pages longer then it was in 6th as well. (4-2)

Models&Units and General Principles are 2 pages longer then they were as well. (10-8)

Did we really get 2 pages more worth of stuff on every one of these sections?

In total the rules are 20 pages longer (153-133) while the releveant appendix pages are 30 more then they used to be (50-20).

I am fine with getting new stuff but the book got 50 pages longer with not getting %33 more content. Seems like a bit of a waste of paper.

Weyland-Yutani
Building Better Terrains

https://www.weyland-yutani-inc.com/

https://www.facebook.com/weylandyutaniinc/

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws.
 
   
Made in us
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper



Dawsonville GA

I counted it, there are 15 whole page picture layouts in the rules. Most of these serve as logical partitions between sections, such as 2 pages saying Appendix with a cool picture of an Adeptus Sororitas.

I have found no adverts in the book.

The other pictures are 1/4 page to half page pictures that just make the book look nice. Without them it would just be a wall of text. If you want me to count those I can do that too to see if it meets with your approval.

I mean if you don't like it don't buy it. No one was more peeved than me they released a new edition 1 year 11 months after the previous one but after looking through it I decided to buy it.

I like that they broke it up so I don't have to lug the fluff books around. It would have been better if there was just a rulebook only version to buy but then very few fluff books would ever get sold.

Of course, the main reason I decided to choke it up and buy it is because I never bought a 6th ed. hardback, i used the little book. I would have been a lot more peeved if I had bought the hard cover and had to shell out for another so soon with so little changes to the rules.

Then again I am glad they haven't changed many of the rules. Apparantly I am one of the few people who liked 6th ed. rules (according tot he reactions here on dakka anyway).
   
Made in eu
Lord of the Fleet






 Purifier wrote:
They managed it perfectly in the A5-booklet without cluttering it up. I'm not buying this excuse.

The A5 rulebook had the exact same layout as the A4 so I'm really not sure what your point is here?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Houston, Texas

 Purifier wrote:
It does feel a little like "We've listened to your complaints. The rules are now a separate book (you still have to buy all of them, but at least you get a nice thin book to carry around!"
*snicker snicker*
"TROLLED! IT'S STILL FULL OF FILTH!"

Off topic but I love your sig.
Is that an actual thing?

Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." 
   
Made in us
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





 TheKbob wrote:
Straight up Ads in the book,... more so than before...

Spoiler:


Ref: http://conclaveofhar.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/warhammer-40k-revenge-of-sixth-or.html

Also, if you enjoy the hobby and fluff pictures stop buying stuff from GW. There are tons of free websites, forums, blogs, Facebook groups, YouTube videos and more that are far more valuable assets to enjoying and improving your modeling and painting skills.

This is stuff that other companies include in their rules or provide for free to provide you an incentive to purchase their models and enjoy the models. Not like GW which focuses on "enjoying" the purchase.


Point of order.... That page spread isn't in The Rules; it's in A Galaxy at War. Pages 46-47 in the rulebook cover charging.

My biggest complaint about the books is the smell. The ones my FLGS received all smell like new, cheap furniture, not new books.

Sometimes you have fun, and sometimes the fun has you. -Sgt. Schlock 
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





I think we have now hit the low point of complaints with the book smelling wrong.

Everything I say, barring quotes and researched information, is my personal opinion. Not fact.

"Being into 40k but not the background is like being into porn but not masturbation..." - Kain

"I barely believe my dice are not sentient and conspiring against me." - knas ser 
   
Made in us
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





Maybe, but I like the new book smell. The one I have smells like it spent too much time in a chemical factory.

Sometimes you have fun, and sometimes the fun has you. -Sgt. Schlock 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

That smell was weird and caught me off guard. I have a really bad sense of smell, except certain odors (for some reason i can smell the aftermath of a rainstorm fine for example), and usually dont notice any good or bad stench unless its very dense. Comes at a plus since i rarely notice body odor lol.
I opened the book and read 2-3 pages, then it hit me. i did the whole head-throw-back motion and thought "The hell is that smell?" and soon realized it was the book, not the FLGS i was in reading it.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

Triton wrote:If you bought it without looking through it/waiting for reviews/whatever, then you got what you deserved. You're also the reason that GW keeps putting out gakky product; they know they can count on guys like you to buy gak sight unseen, regardless of whether or not it's good.


Pretty hard to look at the content without opening the clingwrap, wouldn't you say? They also didn't have an open copy, interestingly enough.
I bought the rules because someone in our group needed to do it. I didn't foot the whole bill, but I'm still disapointed.


Ravenous D wrote:
Bingo, what you allow is what will continue.

Buy gak, get more gak, until that gak is so gakky it makes gakky gak look good.


Present me an alternative way to get my hands on the rules that doesn't have the potential to land me in jail for piracy.

KommissarKarl wrote:
I'm sick all of all these pictures there are on dakka! Don't the admins realise that I could just google "40k images" and I'd have thousands of pictures of 40k images right in front of me, for free and at my convenience?

But no, instead they insist on ramming in as many pictoral monstrosities into the web page as they can, interrupting the flow of nerd rage that sustains me. I mean, they even have a separate page on their website dedicated to showing you pictures of models, yet still page after page of discussion is cluttered up with so called "avatars" and "images". Pathetic.

I demand my money back.


Here's the problem karl.

I don't pay to use Dakka. In fact, I'm more amiable to pay to use Dakka (as a DCM) because Dakka isn't obviously grubbing for my money.

I don't mind having a few images to break up text in the rulebook, and I have nothing against diagrammatic images that use GW models. I also am perfectly okay with a single page used to separate two sections, as per the grey knights photo at the end of the psychic phase. Those are formatting tools.
I take issue with spreads that take up the equivalent of a full page and a half worth of space with their nonsense.



this kind of gak.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/25 02:45:58


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




edited for rudeness - MT11

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/25 04:54:19


 
   
Made in us
Martial Arts Fiday






Nashville, TN

Wow.

The book might not have been made for hardcore players who just want the most compressed version of the rules and nothing else. It was probably written for people who enjoy the game and love to see a table full of painted models and terrain. Probably a rare sight where you play.

Out of all the things we have to choose from, what a useless thing to be upset over.

"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"

-Nobody Ever

Proverbs 18:2

"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

 warboss wrote:

GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up.


Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.

EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.

Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





If there's a table full of painted models and terrain in front of you in the game shop, why the heck do you need to look at pictures of same in a book?
   
Made in us
Martial Arts Fiday






Nashville, TN

Yes, because the only time you'd ever crack the rule book is at the table.

"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"

-Nobody Ever

Proverbs 18:2

"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

 warboss wrote:

GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up.


Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.

EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.

Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! 
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker





lol .... always funny when people need to have something new to complain about, flame post over 5 extra pages from one rule book to another that have some pictures on them?

   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Edited for rudeness - MT11

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/25 04:56:49


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Southern California, USA

 Whereswaldo wrote:
lol .... always funny when people need to have something new to complain about, flame post over 5 extra pages from one rule book to another that have some pictures on them?



The issue is that we are being charged for these pictures which are basically advertising. So, not only are we paying for a book that is nothing but pictures of models but we are also paying for the privilege of having these things in the rule book too. It's a valid criticism of the way Games Workshop formats their books.

I think the counter argument that these pictures break up the blocks of text is silly since the entire point of this new format of their rulebook is so that we can have books dedicated to each facet of what GW considers to be the 40k Hobby. If you get bored of all of the text you got a whole book you can crack open to oogle the same models they show online.

Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!  
   
Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

Edit out quote - MT11

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Yes, because the only time you'd ever crack the rule book is at the table.


Pretty much, right? I mean you're being facetious, I know this, but Why do they have to advertise in a book that will be skimmed once and then only referred to on occasion?

 TheCustomLime wrote:

I think the counter argument that these pictures break up the blocks of text is silly since the entire point of this new format of their rulebook is so that we can have books dedicated to each facet of what GW considers to be the 40k Hobby. If you get bored of all of the text you got a whole book you can crack open to oogle the same models they show online.


This is true, too. Who reads a rulebook for fun? Why does it need to be entertaining or pretty?

I don't read the FIBA handbook, I go and play basketball.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
t was probably written for people who enjoy the game and love to see a table full of painted models and terrain. Probably a rare sight where you play.


You can see my painted armies at my blog if you'd like, rather than throwing out very false accusations about what I do with my hobby.

This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2014/05/25 04:57:48


 
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







 MWHistorian wrote:
 TheKbob wrote:
[/spoiler]Straight up Ads in the book,... more so than before...

Spoiler:


Ref: http://conclaveofhar.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/warhammer-40k-revenge-of-sixth-or.html

Also, if you enjoy the hobby and fluff pictures stop buying stuff from GW. There are tons of free websites, forums, blogs, Facebook groups, YouTube videos and more that are far more valuable assets to enjoying and improving your modeling and painting skills.

This is stuff that other companies include in their rules or provide for free to provide you an incentive to purchase their models and enjoy the models. Not like GW which focuses on "enjoying" the purchase. [spoiler]

Wow, that add, right in the middle of the book is kind of tacky. In the back would have been better. That's 1990's comic book style right there.


It should be noted that the adds aren't in the Rulebook, they are in the 'Galaxy at War' book, the one with picture of models and the like.





Now OT... seriously? You are complaining about pictures in the rulebook? Of all the things you could complain about you chose that?
Each to their own opinion, but to me that's a bit silly. Honestly I'd prefer having pictures every so often than walls of text, indeed I'm glad there are pictures.
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin




Roswell, GA

I don't really see the problem. It helps break things up IMO. Also been playing several games today and so far we have enjoyed the rules. Hell even my Soulblaze was a killing Eldar like a champ.
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker




Northern Virginia

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Pretty hard to look at the content without opening the clingwrap, wouldn't you say? They also didn't have an open copy, interestingly enough.
I bought the rules because someone in our group needed to do it. I didn't foot the whole bill, but I'm still disapointed.

Couldn't have waited a few days?
   
Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Now OT... seriously? You are complaining about pictures in the rulebook? Of all the things you could complain about you chose that?
Each to their own opinion, but to me that's a bit silly. Honestly I'd prefer having pictures every so often than walls of text, indeed I'm glad there are pictures.


I'm not complaining about all pictures, just the large, multi-page spreads specifically. I've said this multiple times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Triton wrote:
 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Pretty hard to look at the content without opening the clingwrap, wouldn't you say? They also didn't have an open copy, interestingly enough.
I bought the rules because someone in our group needed to do it. I didn't foot the whole bill, but I'm still disapointed.

Couldn't have waited a few days?


Do you live with a schedule?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/25 03:51:16


 
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker




Northern Virginia

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Do you live with a schedule?

Not for my hobby purposes, no. I've often put off buying stuff I wasn't sure about until I was.

Not that I get the impression you would have refrained from purchasing had you known what was in the books in the first place. A lot of 40K players like to complain about GW, but they don't ever actually yank their money, which is the only complaint that's ever going to convince the company to do anything different.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Triton wrote:
 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Do you live with a schedule?

Not for my hobby purposes, no. I've often put off buying stuff I wasn't sure about until I was.

Not that I get the impression you would have refrained from purchasing had you known what was in the books in the first place. A lot of 40K players like to complain about GW, but they don't ever actually yank their money, which is the only complaint that's ever going to convince the company to do anything different.


QFT. I don't know how many times I have heard people at my FLGS complain to anyone who will listen, most usually halpless staff trapped at the register, that GW is on the way out, they grub money, are putting out garbage, etc., etc. Somehow, most of these same people find their way clear to buying a couple hundred bucks worth or more of GW product a month.
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





Relapse wrote:
 Triton wrote:
 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Do you live with a schedule?

Not for my hobby purposes, no. I've often put off buying stuff I wasn't sure about until I was.

Not that I get the impression you would have refrained from purchasing had you known what was in the books in the first place. A lot of 40K players like to complain about GW, but they don't ever actually yank their money, which is the only complaint that's ever going to convince the company to do anything different.


QFT. I don't know how many times I have heard people at my FLGS complain to anyone who will listen, most usually halpless staff trapped at the register, that GW is on the way out, they grub money, are putting out garbage, etc., etc. Somehow, most of these same people find their way clear to buying a couple hundred bucks worth or more of GW product a month.



"Because disliking GW's recent business direction is not the same thing as disliking Warhammer 40k.

Because disliking the current direction of the game is not the same as disliking the game.

Because complaining about the things you dislike about something that you otherwise enjoy can sometimes effect positive change.

And because when you have invested a lot of time, effort and money into something that then changes into something you don't like as much, it's not so easy to just shrug your shoulders and move on to something else." - Insaniak

Everything I say, barring quotes and researched information, is my personal opinion. Not fact.

"Being into 40k but not the background is like being into porn but not masturbation..." - Kain

"I barely believe my dice are not sentient and conspiring against me." - knas ser 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




This edition is the most obvious cash grab to date. Unbound armies alone are so incredibly stupid I wonder how a professional "games designer" could even suggest it let alone allow it to get to print.

Jervis Jhonson needs to go. The game has been in a steady state of decline under his lead. Losing market share year after year and Jervis is allowed to continue his moronic tenure as lead rules designer.

Such a blatant cash grab this whole edition. How are any of you buying this crap?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Jaceevoke wrote:
Relapse wrote:
 Triton wrote:
 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Do you live with a schedule?

Not for my hobby purposes, no. I've often put off buying stuff I wasn't sure about until I was.

Not that I get the impression you would have refrained from purchasing had you known what was in the books in the first place. A lot of 40K players like to complain about GW, but they don't ever actually yank their money, which is the only complaint that's ever going to convince the company to do anything different.


QFT. I don't know how many times I have heard people at my FLGS complain to anyone who will listen, most usually halpless staff trapped at the register, that GW is on the way out, they grub money, are putting out garbage, etc., etc. Somehow, most of these same people find their way clear to buying a couple hundred bucks worth or more of GW product a month.



"Because disliking GW's recent business direction is not the same thing as disliking Warhammer 40k.

Because disliking the current direction of the game is not the same as disliking the game.

Because complaining about the things you dislike about something that you otherwise enjoy can sometimes effect positive change.

And because when you have invested a lot of time, effort and money into something that then changes into something you don't like as much, it's not so easy to just shrug your shoulders and move on to something else." - Insaniak


I have seen these same complaints about 40k and GW since I started playing the game in 1990, so they really aren't anything new. Neither is the fact that the same people who complain are mostly the ones who keep spending a crapton of cash on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dresnar1 wrote:
This edition is the most obvious cash grab to date. Unbound armies alone are so incredibly stupid I wonder how a professional "games designer" could even suggest it let alone allow it to get to print.

Jervis Jhonson needs to go. The game has been in a steady state of decline under his lead. Losing market share year after year and Jervis is allowed to continue his moronic tenure as lead rules designer.

Such a blatant cash grab this whole edition. How are any of you buying this crap?


I will, once I'm sure all the proofreading bugs have been worked out.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/25 06:52:44


 
   
Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

Relapse wrote:

I will, once I'm sure all the proofreading bugs have been worked out.


So, never?

The book itself has a few issues aside from the distasteful spreads, but I'm happy about the format overall, I'll be honest. There's still the problem that it is written to far, far too colloquially. While this must be wonderful for those of you who seem to think the rulebook is there to be an entertaining read, quite often the style of writing leaves things ambiguous and often can be interpreted two or more ways.

An Example:

no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per psychic phase

This one's a pain because it's written stylistically.

Why?

The easy interpretation is that the sentence denies any unit the right to attempt to manifest the same power more than once per phase. This is most likely correct, given previous editions.
The other interpretation, easily as valid interpretively is that No unit can attempt to manifest a psychic power that's already been attempted that turn (i.e; you may only cast prescience once per phase)

I guarantee you, someone will use the second interpretation somewhere down the line in an argument and, feth it, technically they're right. While this a minor issue that will no doubt be sorted out quickly, this could easily be avoided by making their language less stylish and more informative. This rule could be re-written without changing meaning as

"No one unit can attempt to manifest a psychic power that specifically that unit has already attempted to manifest (successfully or unsuccessfully) that psychic phase."

This uses ten more words, but covers the problem holistically. I'm sure there is a second interpretation, But the inclusion of the words one and specifically limit the rule to any unit in question, rather than being resolved about all units as a whole.

But, uh, these rules have always been written like an eighth-graders homework written twenty minutes before it is due; I expected that rolling into the book.

To end on a less sulky note, the book is what I wanted, I'm just annoyed that they only went about 80% of the way to making what I wanted. Again, I don't mind pictures in books, but I do not appreciate 2/3 of a spread being taken up by a picture. There's never call for that.


 
   
Made in eu
Lord of the Fleet






If the size of the rulebook is that important why didn't you get the electronic version? A 7" tablet containing all of the books you need is much smaller.
   
Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

 Scott-S6 wrote:
If the size of the rulebook is that important why didn't you get the electronic version? A 7" tablet containing all of the books you need is much smaller.


I find it very hard to read a digitised screen, but it's a fair point. If it didn't make me so uncomfortable, I'd probably buy all my books on the iTunes store.

However, I don't mind a 208 pager. The size of the rulebook is fine. I'm just miffed that they waste so much space on such poor formatting.


 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






 Scipio Africanus wrote:
I'd probably buy all my books on the iTunes store.

I wouldn't go there... You can get electronic versions that have no connection to iTunes.

I agree that it's not the same, much harder to flick through and find a section quickly. However, being searchable can also be REALLY valuable. It irks me significantly that you don't get a voucher for the electronic version when you buy the paper copy (amazon started doing this a while ago and it's a really good idea).
   
 
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