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The errata/FAQs will put an end to exponential daemons, I reckon. If any daemon can generate malefic powers, by the same logic any GK can generate sanctic powers, which I would automatically assume isn't the case. In the GK codex in 6th, there were only a couple of units who we're allowed to select their powers, the vast majority just get what they're given in their codex entry.

Is this not the case in the daemon codex? (I don't have it)

 ionusx wrote:
On top of that poison has been nerfed.

Again copy-paste from the previous edition. How is that a nerf exactly?

Seems so, derped out this one. no idea why I got that one confused.

 pocketcanoe wrote:
The errata/FAQs will put an end to exponential daemons, I reckon. If any daemon can generate malefic powers, by the same logic any GK can generate sanctic powers, which I would automatically assume isn't the case. In the GK codex in 6th, there were only a couple of units who we're allowed to select their powers, the vast majority just get what they're given in their codex entry.

Is this not the case in the demon codex? (I don't have it)

Not any Daemon, any Psyker. Technically Pink Horrors would have access to Daemonology since they are Psykers, however they have no Mastery Level. The rules dictate that you can only manifest a number of powers per turn equal to your Mastery level. That's why Heralds and other daemons need to do the actual casting, they can actually get Mastery Levels.

According to the new rulebook Pink Horrors are Mastery Level 1 for the simple fact that they are Psykers.

helotaxi wrote:
According to the new rulebook Pink Horrors are Mastery Level 1 for the simple fact that they are Psykers.

Dafuq??! WHO MADE THESE RULES???

Kyutaru wrote:

helotaxi wrote:
According to the new rulebook Pink Horrors are Mastery Level 1 for the simple fact that they are Psykers.

Dafuq??! WHO MADE THESE RULES???

People who don't actually play the game.

And, for the low price of one more pink horror (11 man squad) they produce 2 warp charges instead of 1.

YAY!

Kyutaru wrote:

helotaxi wrote:
According to the new rulebook Pink Horrors are Mastery Level 1 for the simple fact that they are Psykers.

Dafuq??! WHO MADE THESE RULES???

Eh? My understanding is that they had warp charges in 6th edition too - it's in their codex.

1 - 10 horrors = 1 warp charge
11 - 15 = 2 warp charges
16 - 20 = 3 warp charges

They generate their powers from the change discipline (but now with the warp pool, all their warp charges can instead be used by other psykers to summon more daemons)

 Wulfmar wrote:

Kyutaru wrote:

helotaxi wrote:
According to the new rulebook Pink Horrors are Mastery Level 1 for the simple fact that they are Psykers.

Dafuq??! WHO MADE THESE RULES???

Eh? My understanding is that they had warp charges in 6th edition too - it's in their codex.

1 - 10 horrors = 1 warp charge
11 - 15 = 2 warp charges
16 - 20 = 3 warp charges

They generate their powers from the change discipline (but now with the warp pool, all their warp charges can instead be used by other psykers to summon more daemons)

And it does say in the BRB that ALL Pyskers, save the Nids, can use the Daemonology Tables. So, until FAQ'd for clarification, Pink Horrors would be also summoning. XD

 TheKbob wrote:


And it does say in the BRB that ALL Pyskers, save the Nids, can use the Daemonology Tables. So, until FAQ'd for clarification, Pink Horrors would be also summoning. XD

It appears that is the current RAW situation.

RAI is anyone's guess.

Equal parts hilarious, absurd, and sad.

Pink horrors summoning pink horrors summoning pink horrors.

What was that instrument that made the BWONG sound in the Inception trailer?

 Kain wrote:
Pink horrors summoning pink horrors summoning pink horrors.

What was that instrument that made the BWONG sound in the Inception trailer?

A gong?

Or would that be a GONG sound?

Please, allow me






Pink-ception

 Blacksails wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Pink horrors summoning pink horrors summoning pink horrors.

What was that instrument that made the BWONG sound in the Inception trailer?

A gong?

Or would that be a GONG sound?

No the one here.




Edit: Ninjas.

 Wulfmar wrote:

Kyutaru wrote:

helotaxi wrote:
According to the new rulebook Pink Horrors are Mastery Level 1 for the simple fact that they are Psykers.

Dafuq??! WHO MADE THESE RULES???

Eh? My understanding is that they had warp charges in 6th edition too - it's in their codex.

I wasn't saying anything about warp charges, I specifically referred to Mastery levels. The new rulebook says that if a psyker isn't listed as having a mastery level, he's assumed Mastery 1.

The rulebook is the one making all the assumptions, we're just playing it as it demands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:

And it does say in the BRB that ALL Pyskers, save the Nids, can use the Daemonology Tables. So, until FAQ'd for clarification, Pink Horrors would be also summoning. XD

Thing is, even a Mastery 1 psyker can only generate a single power. I know Chaos Space Marines are FORCED to generate at least 1 power from Tzeentch. If the Pink Horrors are also forced to generate a power from their Change discipline, then they wouldn't have any Mastery points left over to generate a Daemonology power.

So no pink horrors summoning pink horrors Inception bullcrap. Unless their codex allows them to ignore their primary discipline and roll on anything.

Kyutaru wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:

Kyutaru wrote:

helotaxi wrote:
According to the new rulebook Pink Horrors are Mastery Level 1 for the simple fact that they are Psykers.

Dafuq??! WHO MADE THESE RULES???

Eh? My understanding is that they had warp charges in 6th edition too - it's in their codex.

I wasn't saying anything about warp charges, I specifically referred to Mastery levels. The new rulebook says that if a psyker isn't listed as having a mastery level, he's assumed Mastery 1.

The rulebook is the one making all the assumptions, we're just playing it as it demands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:

And it does say in the BRB that ALL Pyskers, save the Nids, can use the Daemonology Tables. So, until FAQ'd for clarification, Pink Horrors would be also summoning. XD

Thing is, even a Mastery 1 psyker can only generate a single power. I know Chaos Space Marines are FORCED to generate at least 1 power from Tzeentch. If the Pink Horrors are also forced to generate a power from their Change discipline, then they wouldn't have any Mastery points left over to generate a Daemonology power.

So no pink horrors summoning pink horrors Inception bullcrap. Unless their codex allows them to ignore their primary discipline and roll on anything.

Pink Horrors have the Brotherhood of Psykers rule = Mastery Level 1 automatically. It's on page 159 of the 7th Ed. BRB

You upgrade this by purchasing more pink horrors to get 3WC for the squad.


What Kbob has said is true according to RAW. Horrors are not limited like CSM to generating a minimum of 1 power from a God's specific list

See, really though, what you can do is what Frankie from FG did. Spam a bunch of daemonettes who are fast. Ensure you bring an Icon for the purposes of safe deep striking and then proceed to fart them out as far as possible.

Use their fast run rules to push them up the table quickly. Now they have a choice of either shooting the Factory of Horrors™ or at the advancing waves of fast as bull poopie Slaanesh stuff ready to rip you to shreds. Meaning you're probably only ever going to break even every turn, at best.

When each unit of Pink Horrors is spawned, you roll on Malefic. If you happen to roll a 6, then great, now you 9 dice Possession ensuring it goes off, you give two poops less about perils, and your opponent can't dispel it with any sure fire bet. Now that unit of 10 horrors just became a blood thirster or lord of change (MORE ROLLS ON MALEFIC!).

I'm going to build this list and call The Circus of Values.

 TheKbob wrote:
See, really though, what you can do is what Frankie from FG did. Spam a bunch of daemonettes who are fast. Ensure you bring an Icon for the purposes of safe deep striking and then proceed to fart them out as far as possible.

Use their fast run rules to push them up the table quickly. Now they have a choice of either shooting the Factory of Horrors™ or at the advancing waves of fast as bull poopie Slaanesh stuff ready to rip you to shreds. Meaning you're probably only ever going to break even every turn, at best.

When each unit of Pink Horrors is spawned, you roll on Malefic. If you happen to roll a 6, then great, now you 9 dice Possession ensuring it goes off, you give two poops less about perils, and your opponent can't dispel it with any sure fire bet. Now that unit of 10 horrors just became a blood thirster or lord of change (MORE ROLLS ON MALEFIC!).

I'm going to build this list and call The Circus of Values.

No, no. Tzeentch Clown Car

If Pink Horrors are a quine, does that mean that they also spit out scrap code?

So if all GKs can use the sanctic powers then my GK rhinos, Strike squads, Storm Ravens, etc are going to all be rolling for vortex of of doom. That's hilarious!

helotaxi wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
On top of that poison has been nerfed.

Again copy-paste from the previous edition. How is that a nerf exactly?

Not exactly. You only get the re-roll to wound from Melee weapons if your base strength is HIGHER than the targets toughness. Before it was equal to, or greater than. Big difference for my Plague Marines. Also shooting doesn't get the re-roll.

helotaxi wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
On top of that poison has been nerfed.

Again copy-paste from the previous edition. How is that a nerf exactly?

Dont assume its a copy paste if you dont know the rule in detail. There are a LOT of little changes that people are forgetting, like poison, that actually make a big difference. And since its literally a single word being changed, nobody notices.

Poisons only reroll if you are higher strength than toughness, vs being equal or higher. And shooting lacks the reroll all together. Huge, huge nerf for just a couple words different.

Actually aside from Jink, Psykers, the vehicle Pen table, or terrain rules almost the entirety of the 7th ed changes were little things slipped into the wording. Betcha anything if it wasnt in the whitedwarf nobody would have noticed the Smash nerf. Hell, when i brought up the Sniper nerf nobody at my flgs believed me at first.

When i got my 7th book i had my 6th sitting right next to me if i saw anything i thought was off-color in the wording. And i found a ton of little things that way.

Winners
1) Imperial Knights. Hard to kill before. Just got harder by a lot.
2) Demons. The psychic powers are hug buffs for demons. Demons can put out a ton of psychic dice. Probably not a top tier army yet, but will be a popular ally.
3) Grey Knights. The new psychic powers are buffs, and they pump out a ton of warp charges. Also they are now battle brothers with a lot of armies. Probably not a top tier army yet, but will be a popular ally.
4) Imperial Guard (AM). The new vehicle pen tables are big. The MC debuffs are big.
5) Space Marines. Super scoring Rhinos and Drop pods are ridiculous. Land Raiders are nearly unkillable in many matchups. Walkers are Killing machines.

Losers
1) Tyranids. MC were nerfed in several big ways. FMC's lose vector strikes and can't assault. S6 AP:- can no longer explode anything. Limited AP:2, and no AP:1 weapons.
*Big Gap*
2) Orks. The king of open top vehicles. Squads inside now vulnerable to flamers. Limited AP:2, no AP:1.
3) Dark Eldar. Beaststar is beatable via good deny the witch planning. Lost some battle brothers.
*Big Gap*
4) Tau. Lost of Ovesa Star. Limited ability to deal with armor already, and now worse. New missions favor a moving army not a static gunline. No more Eldar BB. Still a Top tier army.
5) Necrons. Psychic powers get buffed. No Psychers.

Just played my first 7th ed game, mechanized tau vs termie gk. Blew him out of the water as I was more maneuverable to claim new turn by turn missions and skimmers are crazy good. Wall of jinking armor, followed by non jinking smart missile spam and some fusions here and there. Tabled turn 6, I lost 3 piranhas. Tau hasn't lost, just needs to change tactics.

Also, ovesastar isn't gone, just nerfed. RAW ovesa can join a buffmander suit squad since he is an IC, just not the other way around. Lots of wordage issues me and my friends have found. So we can't have a squad of 2 riptides, big deal. One buffed to hell and back is good enough for me

 Pryamarch wrote:
Also, ovesastar isn't gone, just nerfed. RAW ovesa can join a buffmander suit squad since he is an IC, just not the other way around. Lots of wordage issues me and my friends have found. So we can't have a squad of 2 riptides, big deal. One buffed to hell and back is good enough for me

If any FAQ are ever written again, I imagine that it will be made abundantly clear.

As it is, if someone tried to join Ovesa to buffmander using the argument that the rule is buffmander can't join Ovesa, but nothing says Ovesa can't join buffmander, there is no way I would let you get away with that. The intent of the rule is clear, to kill Ovesa star. Unless your argument is that Games workshop saw all of the 1's of people joining Tyranid Primes to Carnifexes, you know why that rule was written, and what effect they expected it to have. No IC's joined to Ovesa. If you want to join Ovesa to some Suites or drones, you still have that.

But in 6th you couldn't join normal characters to MC. Tau could join stuff to riptides , because riptides and their shields were a unit and not a MC.

Played 1 game against new eldar and demons this weekend. Borderline unfun . Unkillable serpents that score . Demons getting VPs for casting 3+ psychic powers per turn ,killing units in melee and shoting and easily doing domination by having over 1000pts more models then me at the end of turn 2. At the same time , I was unable to cast psychic powers of my own , because I rolled 7+d6 vs +14+D6 , in turn 4 it was 3+d6 vs 23+d6 or gain extra VP from destroying units in melee. I have no idea who though it was a good idea to give VP for stuff only few armies can do .

tag8833 wrote:

 Pryamarch wrote:
Also, ovesastar isn't gone, just nerfed. RAW ovesa can join a buffmander suit squad since he is an IC, just not the other way around. Lots of wordage issues me and my friends have found. So we can't have a squad of 2 riptides, big deal. One buffed to hell and back is good enough for me

If any FAQ are ever written again, I imagine that it will be made abundantly clear.

As it is, if someone tried to join Ovesa to buffmander using the argument that the rule is buffmander can't join Ovesa, but nothing says Ovesa can't join buffmander, there is no way I would let you get away with that. The intent of the rule is clear, to kill Ovesa star. Unless your argument is that Games workshop saw all of the 1's of people joining Tyranid Primes to Carnifexes, you know why that rule was written, and what effect they expected it to have. No IC's joined to Ovesa. If you want to join Ovesa to some Suites or drones, you still have that.

But O'vesa has the Independent Character special rule. He can join other units. I'd say the intent of that is pretty damn clear.

Did anyone else notice characters lost precision fire?

Hurts a bit on multi-characther armies (such as SM who has one in every unit), and also tau/eldar/necron shooter team leaders took a bit of a hit as they can no longer allocated high-powered guns where they please.

It DOES require a rework of the 1st warlord trait on the tau list though, having "cant LoS my precision fire" warlord trait when many of them don't have, and cant get precision fire, would be a bit silly.