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Wow, I guess GW is planning on selling some CCB's, huh? I might have to leave early sick from work, run home and cuddle with my CCB's while I gleefully reread the chariot section

And everyone hated me for running 7 flyers - just wait...

 necron99 wrote:
Wow, I guess GW is planning on selling some CCB's, huh? I might have to leave early sick from work, run home and cuddle with my CCB's while I gleefully reread the chariot section

And everyone hated me for running 7 flyers - just wait...

7!?

I own 2 and feel like a bit of a douche if I end up playing both against an opponent that didn't bring any flyers or AA of his own...

Bringing two flyers is definitely not douchey. I'm thinking of cutting it down to five in 7th to make space for two CCB and still running 3 Annie barges...

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 Mythra wrote:
The Demons have been FAQed when they chariot up they lose IC. The Necrons have not been.

I played with a CCB leading some Wraiths. Just figuring out where hits go... who decides where hits go, and such... well, it was a bit of a pain. Losing IC would solve a lot of headaches.

So I'm still trying to find something in the chariot section that I could use to claim that the CCB/OL is an IC and I'm just not seeing it. I see where it says the CCB/overlord has a dual characteristic profile and I do see where they say that ever living would apply to both CCB & OL but nothing says specifically that special rules the OL brings(i.e. IC) to the table carries over to the CCB. Are we saying because the RAW says it becomes one model and therefore both models merge special rules? I really need to be able sell this because I would love to have two of these heading up my wraiths units not to mention the wound shenanigans you can do (letting wraiths take a hit instead of the OL).

You're missing the Chaos Daemon FAQ where it specifically states that Heralds that take a chariot lose the IC status. If that was a rule in the book, there would be no need for it to be in the FAQ.

So using that logic (based on another armies FAQ) we're assuming that the special rules of both rider and chariot are normally merged into the single model?

Hopefully that Chariot section mess will get some serious Main Rulebook FAQ attention.

necron99 wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 Mythra wrote:
The Demons have been FAQed when they chariot up they lose IC. The Necrons have not been.

I played with a CCB leading some Wraiths. Just figuring out where hits go... who decides where hits go, and such... well, it was a bit of a pain. Losing IC would solve a lot of headaches.

So I'm still trying to find something in the chariot section that I could use to claim that the CCB/OL is an IC and I'm just not seeing it. I see where it says the CCB/overlord has a dual characteristic profile and I do see where they say that ever living would apply to both CCB & OL but nothing says specifically that special rules the OL brings(i.e. IC) to the table carries over to the CCB. Are we saying because the RAW says it becomes one model and therefore both models merge special rules? I really need to be able sell this because I would love to have two of these heading up my wraiths units not to mention the wound shenanigans you can do (letting wraiths take a hit instead of the OL).

Ghaz wrote:You're missing the Chaos Daemon FAQ where it specifically states that Heralds that take a chariot lose the IC status. If that was a rule in the book, there would be no need for it to be in the FAQ.

There's a thread in YMDC on this, if you are interested, you can check it out. And no, I don't think it is an IC.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/598139.page#6898491

Just had my 1st game with Necrons in the new 7th Edition, and I ran the Bargelord (Overlord on a CCB).

Played against a competitive Tau list with 3 riptides, 3x2 broadsides, 2 pathfinders and 3 troops in devilfish.

I played it both ways - with the bargelord able to join a unit of wraiths and with it independently.


I must say, joining the bargelord to a unit of wraiths is COMPLETELY BROKEN, especially when you factor in Look-Out-Sirs. After Turn 2, my opponent just conceded. It was that stupid.


I then played against him with the bargelord as not being able to join units. It was much more bearable....but still, a bargelord with a 4+ Ever-living roll (ResOrb) and that can move 30" in 1 turn is incredibly effective against the right armies.

Hi JY2,

When you ran the bargelord by itself, did you use it mainly for sweep attacking, or was it a combat unit?

I imagine that the barge soaked up all the overwatch?

Did you have a phase shifter on the Bargelord? Do you think it is worth the price?

MarkCron wrote:
Hi JY2,

When you ran the bargelord by itself, did you use it mainly for sweep attacking, or was it a combat unit?

I imagine that the barge soaked up all the overwatch?

Did you have a phase shifter on the Bargelord? Do you think it is worth the price?

You can find it from my battle report (which will be completed in a couple of days):


7th Edition 1850-pts - Cheese-crons vs Tripide Tau


In short, I will use the bargelord both for its sweep attacks and as a combat unit, depending on which is readily available. It would also depend on the army I will be facing. For example, you really don't want him in combat with 30-zombies, though he is ideal for killing riptides and those annoying wave serpents.

Yes, use the barge to soak up the overwatch. One of the cool things is that, even if it gets hit by meltas or lascannons, you can then transfer any immobilized/weapon destroyed damage onto the Overlord himself instead.

Yes, he bargelord was fully stocked with wargear, including ResOrb, phylactery and 2+/3++. The jury is still out with regards to the 3++, but I am telling you now that he will never be without a ResOrb.

Yes, he bargelord was fully stocked with wargear, including ResOrb, phylactery and 2+/3++. The jury is still out with regards to the 3++, but I am telling you now that he will never be without a ResOrb.

Yeah, I'm right there with you on that. The 3++ is questionable because Jink+Stealth can proxy it against shooting, but it's still pretty effective, both in CC and when they can ignore cover. The Res Orb, Phylactery, etc are all pretty decent takes on the solo Barge Lord now though. I'm even considering throwing the T Lab on him just to give him a better answer to hard core MCs like WKs.

Excellent, looking forward to that Battle Report!!

 jy2 wrote:
Just had my 1st game with Necrons in the new 7th Edition, and I ran the Bargelord (Overlord on a CCB).

Played against a competitive Tau list with 3 riptides, 3x2 broadsides, 2 pathfinders and 3 troops in devilfish.

I played it both ways - with the bargelord able to join a unit of wraiths and with it independently.


I must say, joining the bargelord to a unit of wraiths is COMPLETELY BROKEN, especially when you factor in Look-Out-Sirs. After Turn 2, my opponent just conceded. It was that stupid.


I then played against him with the bargelord as not being able to join units. It was much more bearable....but still, a bargelord with a 4+ Ever-living roll (ResOrb) and that can move 30" in 1 turn is incredibly effective against the right armies.

Look Out Sir changed in 7th.

Pg 100

Under "Look out Sir and Shooting" It states that "When a Wound is allocated to one of your non-vehicle characters,and there is another model from the same unit within 6",he is allowed a Look out,sir attempt"

I was looking at the night shroud bomber recently and it seems to me its a pretty awesome unit.

Considering the bomb rules....a str10 ap1 large blast that can effectively negate cover (barrage rules) that no matter what has interceptor, your bomb is going to go off...then when you get shot at you can still jink for a 4+ that isn't a huge impact to the destructors as your looking for 6s to hit anyways...

is this not the bane to most anti air units in the game? I can just picture my buddys unit of broadsides...all huddle together

It's a great unit! I've used mine a few times, but it's not cheap.
Also, bike and jet bike armies can out maneuver it since it can only pivot once then must go at least 18". And long range shooty armies can stick to the board edges, then you cant land past them, and cannot bomb them.

But I do like the unit, even the model looks decent. Very deadly payload.

The Night Shroud is far too expensive for what it brings to the battlefield. On paper, it looks good. The price, however, is too high. And to make it worse, it's part of the slot with the best Necron units. AB and Sentry Pylons are too good to pass on.

Not sure if you've noticed but the pylons got a huge nurf. You snap fire at all ground targets, and use full BS against skimmers and flyers.
Interceptor no longer gives you the ability to use full BS against ground units, so the heavy slot has no competition anymore, every detachment should have 3 barges.

Oh, I did. All of them now use the Focused Death Ray. It basically means that either your opponent does not field infantry or all of his vehicles / fortifications will be molten down to ashes with a single shot. And if he fields infantry, they either have a very good ++ or are dead on arrival as well.

Only the Gauss Exterminator pylon has skyfire/interceptor.

EDIT: My friend and I house rule that skyfire snapfire crap to not exist because i'll be ing damned if £200 worth of models are made redundant by an arbitrary rules change.

How do you best use the Death Ray Pylons? Deep striking them gets expensive. Deploy them on your deployment edge as near the centre as poss? Do you take units of 1, 2 or 3? I've got some and want to play em, but not sure how best to utilise.

Was the third Pylon weapon option (Heat) affected at all?
(is it even worth considering?)

 skoffs wrote:
Was the third Pylon weapon option (Heat) affected at all?
(is it even worth considering?)

The Heat Cannon is just way to overpriced for what it does.

Heat Cannons are way too expensive. The Focused Deathray deals much more damage and is downright ridiculous due to its wording. The same people that complained about the Gauss pylon before now beg me to use Gauss again

Kholzerino wrote:
How do you best use the Death Ray Pylons? Deep striking them gets expensive. Deploy them on your deployment edge as near the centre as poss? Do you take units of 1, 2 or 3? I've got some and want to play em, but not sure how best to utilise.

Take 3, have an Overlord with Phaeron and Vagard Obyron deploy joined with the unit in your backfield (preferably behind LoS blocking terrain and/or cover) and have them deepstrike as close as safely possible to the single largest concentration of enemy forces on the board.

Que opponent flipping the table after 3 3d6" lines of Focused Death Ray doom eviscerate the bulk of his army in a turn 1 alpha strike.


P.S.
Might not be the best idea if you want that opponent to ever play with you again.

So without a Phaeron there to give it Relentless, Pylons aren't able to fire after deepstriking?

Also, what exactly is so ridiculous about the way it's worded?
(is it a loophole people abuse that needs to be FAQ'd or something?)

 Sigvatr wrote:
Heat Cannons are way too expensive. The Focused Deathray deals much more damage and is downright ridiculous due to its wording. The same people that complained about the Gauss pylon before now beg me to use Gauss again

What do you mean its wording? I've been playing it as it does 2 hits on everything it passes over as opposed to the normal death rays 1. Surely...

 skoffs wrote:
So without a Phaeron there to give it Relentless, Pylons aren't able to fire after deepstriking?

Also, what exactly is so ridiculous about the way it's worded?
(is it a loophole people abuse that needs to be FAQ'd or something?)

They took out the ruling saying artillery couldn't move and shoot in 7th. Why bother making that distinction if almost certainly artillery is going to be heavy or something that can't be snap fired anyway? In any case my friend and I play it with the Pylons scuttling around firing.

 MoonlightSonata wrote:

What do you mean its wording? I've been playing it as it does 2 hits on everything it passes over as opposed to the normal death rays 1. Surely...

 skoffs wrote:
So without a Phaeron there to give it Relentless, Pylons aren't able to fire after deepstriking?

Also, what exactly is so ridiculous about the way it's worded?
(is it a loophole people abuse that needs to be FAQ'd or something?)

.

Said that in another thread when talking with Skoffs. If you hit e.g. 4 infantry models in a unit and 1 vehicle, both the infantry unit AND the vehicle BOTH get 10 hits. Yes, even the vehicle. The regular Death Ray would only deal 1 hit vs. the vehicle and 4 vs. the unit.

And bar super-heavies or sth., 4+ S10 AP1 hits will melt vehicles.

...and on top of that, 7th removed the "cannot move and shoot" rule so for the lulz, you could Pharon them around.

Bonus round: Kulakh can mount a CCB and becomes a true Destroyer of Worlds. Like, really.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:

What do you mean its wording? I've been playing it as it does 2 hits on everything it passes over as opposed to the normal death rays 1. Surely...

 skoffs wrote:
So without a Phaeron there to give it Relentless, Pylons aren't able to fire after deepstriking?

Also, what exactly is so ridiculous about the way it's worded?
(is it a loophole people abuse that needs to be FAQ'd or something?)

Said that in another thread when talking with Skoffs. If you hit e.g. 4 infantry models in a unit and 1 vehicle, both the infantry unit AND the vehicle BOTH get 10 hits. Yes, even the vehicle. The regular Death Ray would only deal 1 hit vs. the vehicle and 4 vs. the unit.

Ah, yes, that wording. Yet another example of bad writing that needs to be FAQ'd.
Basically it comes down to, "don't play it this way if you're playing a fun game", as this is some serious WAAC territory.
But even if played RAI, it's still pretty good.

So how much would 3 Death Ray Pylons + Obyron + an Overlord with Phaeron cost you for an extreme alpha strike?

 skoffs wrote:

Basically it comes down to, "don't play it this way if you're playing a fun game", as this is some serious WAAC territory.

To be fair, I blame GW for removing the Gauss Pylon from the game. It was very well-balanced and with 7th became useless. If it was usuable again, I'd use it as the FDR is pretty darn OP vs. a lot of army compositions.

So how much would 3 Death Ray Pylons + Obyron + an Overlord with Phaeron cost you for an extreme alpha strike?

Roughly 1 friendship

About 850-900 points.

Add in 2 Nightscythes with troop tax and 2 units of 6 Wraiths and suddenly, the entire game takes place in the enemy deployment zone. Or replace 1 unit of Wraiths with 1 CCB. And add the 2 mandatory AB of course.

You will likely lose, though it's really hilarious. Then again, 3 FDR in turn 1 will kill every single thing without a good ++.