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 NecronLord3 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
Were saying that he is a vehicle character so can't LOS but can join another unit even though we are classing him as a vehicle? is this correct or am in missing something? Even if I can not LOS the wounds I can still allocate the high strength hits to my invuln save / 2+ save lord OR jink them on the barge OR just take it and IF it blows me up I still get a 4+ roll to get back up.

Ugh, the rules for this thing are an utter train wreck.
How soon, realistically, can we expect to get the next FAQ update?
(and does anyone have the email address to submit rules questions to GW? Not that I assume they'd answer, but if certain questions are asked frequently enough...)

Gamefaqs@gwplc.com

Mailed!
Thanks
(now if everyone else bombards their inbox with similar questions, they'll have no choice but to address it in the next FAQ... right, guys? ... right??) :(

 jy2 wrote:
@col_impact

May I ask, why can't a bargelord LOS hits allocated to him (and not the barge) onto a unit that he has joined?

The short answer is that wounds are assigned to the model, which in this case is a chariot model with a dual profile. The Look Out Sir would trigger since the chariot is an independent character. However, the new 7th edition Look Out Sir rule prohibits it being applied in the case of vehicle characters, which the bargelord is.

Any tactics,tip and tricks for Necrons in games of Kill Team?

Can you give us the exact rules for your local Kill Team?

Eldercaveman wrote:
Any tactics,tip and tricks for Necrons in games of Kill Team?

Bring Wraiths?

...and AB, depending on your TO's exact ruling that ranges from disallowing for being AV 13 w/ QS to reducing the AV to 12.

It will just be rules as written with no changes. So I'm not sure about the QS issue.

Wraith seem like a good bed, I was thinking Tomb Blades might be a good shout?

Yeah, 5 Tomb Blades and 5 Deathmarks work pretty well in Kill teams.

Eldercaveman wrote:
It will just be rules as written with no changes. So I'm not sure about the QS issue.

Wraith seem like a good bed, I was thinking Tomb Blades might be a good shout?

Yes, Tomb Blades work really well in Kill Team, though I'm not sure they're quite as OP as Wraiths who are all but unstoppable in such a small game where each model operates individually (make one of them a specialist with FNP for a truly hard to kill model, a second would get Preferred Enemy Everything and a third would take Shred ).

On the flipside you could take 2 TB with Shadow Looms, give one of them Shrouded and the other Skilled Rider.

5 Deathmarks and 3 wraiths.

That's what I take.

Kholzerino wrote:
5 Deathmarks and 3 wraiths.

That's what I take.

Yeah, that's the most commonly taken Necron Killteam force.
I just wish there was something else that could be done with Scarabs. They seem like they'd be great for KTs, but because you can only take the one Fast Attack slot, Wraiths are just better in every way.
Oh well.

 skoffs wrote:
That's why it tends to be better to take at least three Tomb Blades.
Yeah, 20 points is better than 60, but at least a single lucky shot isn't going to ruin their day.

This. Though I can see a solo if you have a spair FA slot and 20 points as a useful little distraction and OS camper, I like TBs in 3 to 5.

What would you suggest as far as upgrades now days skoffs? I've always tended to run them with Particles in a Stalker list or Tesla otherwise. Particle Blades + Particle Stalker can throw down a rather surprising amount of concentrated anti infantry fire power. This might be even sexier in 7th as we should see troops piling out of metal boxes more often again. I use to get Stealth on them regularly but now I'm not sure, although 3+ Jink is nice. Stealth on the Tesla ones might be pretty solid, as Jinking provides little nerf to twinlinked Tesla, and 5 3+ cover T5 RP units is no joke to take down. Not a bad by for 150 if you've got the slot to spare.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The ruling on Bargelords not being able to join units is disappointing but not surprising. Taking away PS from the Barges profile I disagree with though. You are paying 250+ for that combo, AV13 OT with a 3++ hardly seems broken for 250 to 200 points. Very very solid, but not broken. I mean, Orkas are getting 5 AV 13 HPs with a 5++ that they give to other units and IWND and transport capacity for things that can also repair its HPs for 290. Of course, they are slower, shoot more, punch hard but due to slowness not nearly as often. Resiliency per point is still key to appraising any unit, and PS buffing the Barge hardly seems to break the unit. Just my opinion.

Kholzerino wrote:
7th Ed: Stormteks for sure.

Do Tomb blades have more of a place? What with mobility being so important. And then being so cheap to get one or two of.

Okay. How do you equip them?

Anybody ever tried doing something beefy with TBs? Like 5 with PBs, 5 BS, Stealth and or 3+ save with a Res Orb D Lord? Pricey little unit, around 350 to 400, but could be fast and pretty deadly. The DLord should be able to keep up with the TBs more or less. Not sure what to equip the DLord with here, maybe good old WS/MSS/SW just to stave off assaults?

Very few in number, risking often and easy panic checks. Easily picked off and a waste of a Destroyer Lord as you don't want to get them into melee. Essentially, you have a unit of 5 upgraded Tesla Immortals at 350-400 points. Not worth it imo. Get them for their mobility, but for a primary offensive use, they are too vulnerable. Sadly, they can no longer Jink and fire their blasts.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
This might be even sexier in 7th as we should see troops piling out of metal boxes more often again. I use to get Stealth on them regularly but now I'm not sure, although 3+ Jink is nice. Stealth on the Tesla ones might be pretty solid, as Jinking provides little nerf to twinlinked Tesla, and 5 3+ cover T5 RP units is no joke to take down. Not a bad by for 150 if you've got the slot to spare.

I'd tend to use them as std tesla, and take an extra one rather than stealth.

Btw, I'm sure that you everyone knows this, but in 7th you don't have to disembark to control an objective. The restriction on embarked units controlling was removed. That means that a 9" long GA with an embarked unit can control 2 units without anyone getting out - GA controls one, embarked unit the other.

Be wary when you play as well, non dedicated stormravens and LR will effectively be superscoring if they have an embarked ObSec unit.

I really want to test my TB out in seventh (I have a lot of complaints against this edition, but the changes to jinx and objectives are not among them), but these wretched Finals are monopolizing all of my free time! :,(

DAMN YOU PHYSICS!

Should've just gone back to engineering- it was so much easier! :p

I'm just thinking of running 1 or 2 solo as handy scoring things that are easy to hide and hard to kill (without SMS - and most SMS units wasting a turn shooting them is a bonus).

This with double Deathmarks (with double Despairteks) double warriors, double a barges and double overlord/barge gubbings...

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Anybody ever tried doing something beefy with TBs? Like 5 with PBs, 5 BS, Stealth and or 3+ save with a Res Orb D Lord? Pricey little unit, around 350 to 400, but could be fast and pretty deadly. The DLord should be able to keep up with the TBs more or less. Not sure what to equip the DLord with here, maybe good old WS/MSS/SW just to stave off assaults?

Other units do it more efficiently. Remember, if you jink, then you cannot fire those PB's. Just compare it to the 100-pt thunderfire and you will see just how inefficient it is.

Then again, in my casual list, I oftentimes put my D-lord with a unit of 3 heavy destroyers. Not the most efficient unit either, but it's all in the name of good fun.

Kholzerino wrote:
I'm just thinking of running 1 or 2 solo as handy scoring things that are easy to hide and hard to kill (without SMS - and most SMS units wasting a turn shooting them is a bonus).

This with double Deathmarks (with double Despairteks) double warriors, double a barges and double overlord/barge gubbings...

Sounds good.

I like the idea of solo TB's just being a nuisance and perhaps winning games. Necron's version of the windrider jetbikes. Just make sure you are going 2nd.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
What would you suggest as far as upgrades now days skoffs? I've always tended to run them with Particles in a Stalker list or Tesla otherwise. Particle Blades + Particle Stalker can throw down a rather surprising amount of concentrated anti infantry fire power. This might be even sexier in 7th as we should see troops piling out of metal boxes more often again. I use to get Stealth on them regularly but now I'm not sure, although 3+ Jink is nice. Stealth on the Tesla ones might be pretty solid, as Jinking provides little nerf to twinlinked Tesla, and 5 3+ cover T5 RP units is no joke to take down. Not a bad by for 150 if you've got the slot to spare.

Yeah, if you're dedicating a full slot to them, Stealth+Tesla is a good combo.
If only running 3 to grab objectives, I just keep them bare Tesla.
The Particle Blades got a bit of a jink nerf, so I don't think I'll be trying them much anymore.

 skoffs wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:
What would you suggest as far as upgrades now days skoffs? I've always tended to run them with Particles in a Stalker list or Tesla otherwise. Particle Blades + Particle Stalker can throw down a rather surprising amount of concentrated anti infantry fire power. This might be even sexier in 7th as we should see troops piling out of metal boxes more often again. I use to get Stealth on them regularly but now I'm not sure, although 3+ Jink is nice. Stealth on the Tesla ones might be pretty solid, as Jinking provides little nerf to twinlinked Tesla, and 5 3+ cover T5 RP units is no joke to take down. Not a bad by for 150 if you've got the slot to spare.

Yeah, if you're dedicating a full slot to them, Stealth+Tesla is a good combo.
If only running 3 to grab objectives, I just keep them bare Tesla.
The Particle Blades got a bit of a jink nerf, so I don't think I'll be trying them much anymore.

With the new Jinks rule Tesla Blades are the definite top choice (unless you know you're going to be facing tons of Sv4+ infantry or something).

Moved post to the correct section

Dude, post lists in the army list section, not in the middle of a tactics thread.

Has anyone found using three full squads of wraiths to be effective? I feel like the general consensus is that it's overkill, but with the advent of MSU OS at my LGS, I don't think it's a terrible idea to have more guys that delete units.

luke1705 wrote:
Has anyone found using three full squads of wraiths to be effective? I feel like the general consensus is that it's overkill, but with the advent of MSU OS at my LGS, I don't think it's a terrible idea to have more guys that delete units.

Well, its not overkill if you face a tougher army. In the 6th edition, an FMC Daemon army was hard to deal with.

As said, in the 7th ed we'll see more MSU armies with small units claiming objectives. Here some fast moving units able to clear objectives can be really useful.

luke1705 wrote:
Has anyone found using three full squads of wraiths to be effective? I feel like the general consensus is that it's overkill, but with the advent of MSU OS at my LGS, I don't think it's a terrible idea to have more guys that delete units.

Wraith wing was obviously one of the viable competitive builds in 5th/6th, but IMO I only liked to run 2 squads because I found them to be less effective without a D Lord, and you could only have 2. As tau and Eldar grew in power creep wraith wing lost its effectiveness due to the volume of fire those armies could put out. IMO tournaments not allowing LoW or multiple CAD, Cron-air or Armour 13 wall are still better than wraith wing in 7th edition. If CCBs are allowed to join wraiths(as they should) wraith wing will be infinitely better.

Kholzerino wrote:
I'm just thinking of running 1 or 2 solo as handy scoring things that are easy to hide and hard to kill (without SMS - and most SMS units wasting a turn shooting them is a bonus).

This with double Deathmarks (with double Despairteks) double warriors, double a barges and double overlord/barge gubbings...

I run two solo TBs with no options in my AV 13 list. I keep them hidden behind ghost arks on turn 1 to keep them out of sight, go for first blood as soon as possible and once I get it, I move them around to capture objectives. Obviously at 20 pts, they don't stand up to any sort of fire so you have to be extremely careful with them but they are invaluable for capturing the maelstrom objectives or grabbing an uncontested Emperor's will objective, or crusade/scouring objectives on turn 5. Investing more than 20 pts in them pretty much defeats the purpose though.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Has anyone found using three full squads of wraiths to be effective? I feel like the general consensus is that it's overkill, but with the advent of MSU OS at my LGS, I don't think it's a terrible idea to have more guys that delete units.

Wraith wing was obviously one of the viable competitive builds in 5th/6th, but IMO I only liked to run 2 squads because I found them to be less effective without a D Lord, and you could only have 2. As tau and Eldar grew in power creep wraith wing lost its effectiveness due to the volume of fire those armies could put out. IMO tournaments not allowing LoW or multiple CAD, Cron-air or Armour 13 wall are still better than wraith wing in 7th edition. If CCBs are allowed to join wraiths(as they should) wraith wing will be infinitely better.

Wraithwing is just as strong in this edition as it was in last edition. As a matter of fact, it may have become slightly even better in this edition due to the shift in meta.

One of the weaknesses of wraithwing was that it was vulnerable to small-arms volume-of-fire. That was the man reason why you needed Destroyer Lords in the unit. However, in 7th, the meta has shifted to that of mech. As a result, players have shifted their lists as well more towards anti-tank load-outs rather than massed anti-infantry. Now some armies - like Tau and Eldar - can still handle massed wraiths with their TAC builds, but a lot of the armies aren't as prepared as they gear up their armies to better able to deal with wave serpents and other vehicles. To wraiths, quantity of shots is more important in dealing with them than quality. And currently, the trend is to go for more quality of shots in order to deal with tanks than quantity.

Warmonger2757 wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:
I'm just thinking of running 1 or 2 solo as handy scoring things that are easy to hide and hard to kill (without SMS - and most SMS units wasting a turn shooting them is a bonus).

This with double Deathmarks (with double Despairteks) double warriors, double a barges and double overlord/barge gubbings...

I run two solo TBs with no options in my AV 13 list. I keep them hidden behind ghost arks on turn 1 to keep them out of sight, go for first blood as soon as possible and once I get it, I move them around to capture objectives. Obviously at 20 pts, they don't stand up to any sort of fire so you have to be extremely careful with them but they are invaluable for capturing the maelstrom objectives or grabbing an uncontested Emperor's will objective, or crusade/scouring objectives on turn 5. Investing more than 20 pts in them pretty much defeats the purpose though.

That is what I would do as well. Just run min-sized un-upgraded TB units solely for objectives purposes. They are the Necron's poor-man's version of the Eldar windrider jetbikes.

My big draw back on solo TBs is it basically eliminates RP. 3 to 5 becomes considerably more resilient when you can keep one of them tucked away out of LOS. But I definitely understand the efficient utility of that kind of unit.

I think 5 with Telsa and Stealth is how I will run them for a bit. 5 T5 guys with 3+ Jinks and RP take a decent amount of fire power to bring down.

Would 2 bare bones TBs not work for those purposes? (so long as you're clever with your maneuvering and manage to keep one hidden out of line of sight for RP just in case)