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changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
It doesn't actually say 'that you apply a hit.' It says "that hit has the Precision Strike rule." You are reading in to the rules.

I can assure you, you're making a definite assumption here. You're assuming that referring to a hit is an order to go check elsewhere whether that hit would otherwise exist, rather than an order to proceed with resolving said hit.

I am not assuming anything. The rules tell us explicitly how to generate hits.

col_impact wrote:
Okay so the Precision Strike operates on hits.

So how are hits generated in the rules?

See? We're circulating. You've asked that exact question multiple times, and aren't considering my answer valid.

So basically, we've gone as far as we can here.

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Okay so the Precision Strike operates on hits.

So how are hits generated in the rules?

See? We're circulating. You've asked that exact question multiple times, and aren't considering my answer valid.

So basically, we've gone as far as we can here.

Except you have failed to show how "that hit" has the rules force to generate hits. I don't have to convince you personally that your argument is logically flawed. I just have to show that your argument is logically flawed.

Anyway, I generated a new thread on YMDC.

I don't know how you get "hits on a 2+" from "Executioner (2+)". I can see how the implication might be construed, but without more solid rules, there's no precedent for a rule like Executioner. It doesn't say "Precision Strikes (2+)", it says "Executioner (2+)", which is wildly different and might even just be a typo for all we know.

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Okay so the Precision Strike operates on hits.

So how are hits generated in the rules?

See? We're circulating. You've asked that exact question multiple times, and aren't considering my answer valid.

So basically, we've gone as far as we can here.

Except you have failed to show how "that hit" has the rules force to generate hits.

To your personal satisfaction, sure. And I could say the same of your arguments ability to disrupt the explanation I laid out to my satisfaction.

You really want to carry on? I can see you haven't budged an inch, so I'm not gonna bother, and I'm honestly a little surprised you can't see the total deadlock.

I don't have to convince you personally that your argument is logically flawed. I just have to show that your argument is logically flawed.

Cute, but I have severe doubts you can reach that level of objectivity.

Anyway, I generated a new thread on YMDC.

I'll glance in, but don't expect me to post if you aren't saying anything new.

I am finding that I am liking the tactical flexibility of including at least one VeilTek in my royal courts along with several stormTeks.

By paying the additional 30 points to having a veilTek instead of just a DespairTek, it allows me the ability at deployment to form Royal Courts instead of Crypteks attached to units and create an alpha strike squad of possibly 1 VeilTek and lets say 2-4 stormTeks to deploy on the board and turn one deep strike for example onto the flank of an Imperial Knight to remove one knight from the opponent's army while they have their pants down.

Of course you are not locked in with the Royal Court at having to break out an alpha strike unit separately. In the appropriate situation, you can attach your Crypteks normally to warrior squads in Night Scythes and keep them safe for later. Again, that's what is really neat. Tactical flexibility.

And really, having that VeilTek is what gives you the possibility of pulling off a turn one alpha strike. Otherwise, Necrons are weak in that area and cannot provide much in the way of turn 1 pressure.

LOL, I had never thought of a royal court full of Haywire attacks teleporting around the board making a mockery of my opponents vehicles in turn 1.

Going to have to try that this weekend...

Would it be wise to add a Chronotek to his combo, allowing you to Deep Strike a lot safer?
That gives an average of 6 Hull Points, enough to kill almost anything, quite cheap for 175 points.

I would always add the full amount of StormTeks, they are too cheap and it means you still one-shot Land Raiders after they lose one.
It also allows you to one-shot most Skimmers, despite the Jink.

A word to the wise, if you are going to be doing my alpha strike combo make sure you know how to deep strike snugly and aggressively.

You basically want to deep strike nice and snug to your target so that if you mishap a roll of 6+ or 7+ it will put you free and clear on the backside of the enemy unit you snuggled up with if you are scattered toward the enemy or still within weapon range if you are scattered away from the enemy.

I use the flamer template to do a probability sweep and find a good snug spot.

The optimal unit size for aggressive and snug deep striking is 4 models total.

The nice thing about the combo is that even if you mishap, 50% of the time your unit is safe in reserve and can do another deep strike attack next turn.

The other nice thing about the combo is that you can always choose to deploy them in the Night Scythe normally if there aren't any high value targets.

Another hidden bonus is that the flamer template can be an awesome teleporty weapn all on its own. With Nids, Orks, IG, and DE showing up with low leadership dudes. Using the template to hit an open-topped truck full of BullyBoyz is priceless.


Also, it sure is a slick way of taking out Imperial Knights.


So make sure to practice your aggressive deep striking and understand how to best push the zones of probability. It really pays off to practice it until you understand it at the fundamental level.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've played with the combo in many different types of list. My favorite is in my patented spyder farm list.

But, here is a more classical Cron take on it.

VeilStorm (1850pts)
Mephrit Dynasty Cohort

HQ
Necron Overlord MSS, PS, RO, SW, WS, Solar Thermasite, CCB
Royal Court (Harbinger of Despair (Veil), Harbinger of the Storm, Harbinger of the Storm, Harbinger of the Storm, Harbinger of the Storm
Necron Overlord MSS, PS, RO, SW, WS, CCB
Royal Court (Harbinger of Despair (Veil), Harbinger of the Storm, Harbinger of the Storm, Harbinger of the Storm, Harbinger of Despair

5x Necron Warrior
5x Necron Warrior
5x Necron Warrior Night Scythe
5x Necron Warrior Night Scythe
5x Deathmarks Night Scythe

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

This list gives you the option of pulling two separate alpha strike units with enough combined power to down a Baneblade or two knights on turn 1. Go Go Alpha Stike!

Kangodo wrote:
Would it be wise to add a Chronotek to his combo, allowing you to Deep Strike a lot safer?

Not really. The Chronometeron can only be used to reroll on the mishap table. Everything else in the deep strike process is ineligible (ie. not a 1d6, the only type of rerolls a chronometeron can affect).

 skoffs wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Would it be wise to add a Chronotek to his combo, allowing you to Deep Strike a lot safer?

Not really. The Chronometeron can only be used to reroll on the mishap table. Everything else in the deep strike process is ineligible (ie. not a 1d6, the only type of rerolls a chronometeron can affect).

The scatter roll is 2d6. You can't just reroll 1 of them with the Chronometron ?

Not being a smart ass, I'm not familiar with the Chronometrons wording, and I don't have the book handy.

That one has being going in circles since the back end of 5th, still without an FAQ to prove it one way or the other

 adamsouza wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Would it be wise to add a Chronotek to his combo, allowing you to Deep Strike a lot safer?

Not really. The Chronometeron can only be used to reroll on the mishap table. Everything else in the deep strike process is ineligible (ie. not a 1d6, the only type of rerolls a chronometeron can affect).

The scatter roll is 2d6. You can't just reroll 1 of them with the Chronometron ?

Not being a smart ass, I'm not familiar with the Chronometrons wording, and I don't have the book handy.

I wanna say that the way it happens is that you can re-roll the scatter die, but then the rules concerning rolling for scatter force you to reroll the 2d6 as well. Don't have my rulebook handy, but it says something akin 5 "if an affect would cause you to reroll one of the dice for scatter, reroll all of the dice.

 adamsouza wrote:
LOL, I had never thought of a royal court full of Haywire attacks teleporting around the board making a mockery of my opponents vehicles in turn 1.

Going to have to try that this weekend...

Problem usually is that you end up destroying 1 vehicle yet losing the entire court immediately afterwards. Worth it if you can down a heavy vehicle, but can easily bite you in your robot butt. Super fun though.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
LOL, I had never thought of a royal court full of Haywire attacks teleporting around the board making a mockery of my opponents vehicles in turn 1.

Going to have to try that this weekend...

Problem usually is that you end up destroying 1 vehicle yet losing the entire court immediately afterwards. Worth it if you can down a heavy vehicle, but can easily bite you in your robot butt. Super fun though.

Two things. If there aren't any high value targets keep them in the Scythes. But taking out 2 Knights turn 1 or a LoW is just super awesome. Trukks filled with BullyBoyz or WaveSerpents are other high value targets.

Also, you would be surprised how often Ever Living keeps Royal Courts going and going.

col_impact wrote:

Also, you would be surprised how often Ever Living keeps Royal Courts going and going.

I used to run a Destrocourt in most of my games. Be advised that I am quite familiar with raging opponents

I'm considering doing a five Destructek and Orb Lord unit behind a defence line with the lord manning the quad gun.

Probably not the most durable unit for points cost and attention drawn, but abnormally good range, ever living and the line is long enough to shield other things.

changemod wrote:
I'm considering doing a five Destructek and Orb Lord unit behind a defence line with the lord manning the quad gun.

Probably not the most durable unit for points cost and attention drawn, but abnormally good range, ever living and the line is long enough to shield other things.

Alternatively have a unit of scarabs man the quad gun and then it has Entropic Strike! Hidden Bonus: scarabs behind ADL are almost always out of line of sight.

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:
I'm considering doing a five Destructek and Orb Lord unit behind a defence line with the lord manning the quad gun.

Probably not the most durable unit for points cost and attention drawn, but abnormally good range, ever living and the line is long enough to shield other things.

Alternatively have a unit of scarabs man the quad gun and then it has Entropic Strike! Hidden Bonus: scarabs behind ADL are almost always out of line of sight.

Did 7th change the rules for line of sight? Back in 6th, I remember having had this discussion on Dakka and us realizing that you'd need LOS to fire at enemy units. Which is...tough-ish with Scarabs.

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:
I'm considering doing a five Destructek and Orb Lord unit behind a defence line with the lord manning the quad gun.

Probably not the most durable unit for points cost and attention drawn, but abnormally good range, ever living and the line is long enough to shield other things.

Alternatively have a unit of scarabs man the quad gun and then it has Entropic Strike! Hidden Bonus: scarabs behind ADL are almost always out of line of sight.

...Just because Scarabs technically can man a defence line doesn't mean it makes any sense.

Wouldn't line of sight be from the quad cannon and not the scarab ?

Alternatively have a unit of scarabs man the quad gun and then it has Entropic Strike!

Does Entropic Strike really extend to ranged attacks in that fashion ?

I would assume the line of sight is from the gun model, but can't be bothered looking it up right now.

This is starting to give me the idea of cramming quite a few things behind the line though. The Destructek unit manning the gun, shooty Spyders farming a second scarab unit as the first surges forth, Tomb Blades with more Particle Beamers... Maybe even a Sentry Pylon. Could form quite an extensive static gunline list.

I'll start Battlescribe prodding and post it in the list section, I guess.

 Sigvatr wrote:

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:
I'm considering doing a five Destructek and Orb Lord unit behind a defence line with the lord manning the quad gun.

Probably not the most durable unit for points cost and attention drawn, but abnormally good range, ever living and the line is long enough to shield other things.

Alternatively have a unit of scarabs man the quad gun and then it has Entropic Strike! Hidden Bonus: scarabs behind ADL are almost always out of line of sight.

Did 7th change the rules for line of sight? Back in 6th, I remember having had this discussion on Dakka and us realizing that you'd need LOS to fire at enemy units. Which is...tough-ish with Scarabs.

The Quad Gun counts as terrain. The scarab just climbs on top of it.

Line of Sight is drawn from the firing model. The Quad Gun is an additional weapon profile so in this case you would draw line of sight from the scarab on top of the Quad Gun.

Fluffwise I think of the scarabs as taking over the Quad Gun wih Mind in the Machine and imbuing it with Ancient Technological Power (Entropic Strike)

I just imagined a swarm of scarabs sitting on top of the gun, moving like a minion and shouting directions in a high-pitched voice to his fellow scarab comrades that try to move the heavy weapon around. Cute.

I suppose if there's a Spyder nearby to network them it doesn't matter if it's Scarabs actually pulling the trigger, fluff wise.

A mindless swarm operating a gun emplacement is still really weird though.

 NakedSeamus wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Would it be wise to add a Chronotek to his combo, allowing you to Deep Strike a lot safer?

Not really. The Chronometeron can only be used to reroll on the mishap table. Everything else in the deep strike process is ineligible (ie. not a 1d6, the only type of rerolls a chronometeron can affect).

The scatter roll is 2d6. You can't just reroll 1 of them with the Chronometron ?

Not being a smart ass, I'm not familiar with the Chronometrons wording, and I don't have the book handy.

I wanna say that the way it happens is that you can re-roll the scatter die, but then the rules concerning rolling for scatter force you to reroll the 2d6 as well. Don't have my rulebook handy, but it says something akin 5 "if an affect would cause you to reroll one of the dice for scatter, reroll all of the dice.

Despite having six sides, the scatter die is not considered a d6 as far as the rules are concerned (apparently only dice that are numbered 1-6 count).

Also, according to the rule book, not the codex, if you are going to reroll one die in a 2d6 roll, you need express permission to do so. The chronometron does not grant that permission (only says single d6).

 adamsouza wrote:
Wouldn't line of sight be from the quad cannon and not the scarab ?

Alternatively have a unit of scarabs man the quad gun and then it has Entropic Strike!

Does Entropic Strike really extend to ranged attacks in that fashion ?

Scarabs aren't a vehicle so don't use LoS of the gun they're firing.

And entropic strike just says attacks made by the model use entropic strike. They technically includes shooting attacks.

Playtested my alpha strike crons again against Orks again. This list was running Mephrit dynasty. The mission was Relic and Vanguard Strike so it was definitely in the Ork favor and sure to be a bloodbath big pileup in the middle.

I ran 1 fully kitted bargelord with Edge of Eternity and Solar Thermasite.

The C'tan Shard formation with a VeilTek and a LightningTek.

Nemesor Zandrekh attached to 5 warriors camped in ruins to give Hit and Run to either the bargeLord or the C'tan shard and take away furious charge from the nasty ork warbike units.

And a mini scarab farm of 3 spyders and 6 scarabs.

I rolled Eternal Warrior on the Warlord chart. This was huge. I think this singlehandedly won me the game since it led to the bargeLord being able to tarpit his Zhadsnark deathstar and be MVP for the game. I think otherwise the bargeLord would have gone down in 1 turn of assault from Zhadsnark s10 ID and I would have had an uphill battle containing his Deathstar. S10 ap2 is the achillles heel to the bargeLord and rolling Eternal Warrior gets a ton more out of those points sunk into the bargeLord.

I won the initiative so I deployed my 2 veilteks and 6 stormteks as 2 sets of 1 Veil x 3 Storm Royal Courts and used them to alpha strike. I sent one after a Trukk full of meganobs and another after the Zhadsnark deathstar. The one sent after the meganobs quickly earned its points and with Ever Living members of the original unit survived until the end of the game. The other unit which was sent against the Deathstar wound up being a mistake. The T5 and FNP of that Painboy buffed unit wound up neutralizing the template attack. I should have sent that second alpha strike unit against another trukk full of nobs. However, he bubblewrapped those somewhat so I went with the safer shots. Hindsight is 20/20 but looking back I think you should push luck to go for the best bang for the buck.

I also had a third alpha strike come in from the deep striking C'Tan shard formation which I planted right in the backfield to blow up a truck full of Tankbustas and draw attention behind the ork player (which is good because the ork army wants to rush forward).

Alpha strike tactics means scoring First Blood is easy.

The royal courts proved really resilient and a true nuisance for the ork player. Ever living and aggressive deep striking really pay off. I had no mishaps and scattered one time to the far side of the unit I snuggled up against to then just simply hit them from the other side.

He ultimately killed my Warlord with Zhadsnark Deathstar but not until bottom of turn 4 when the rest of my army had put a heavy toll on his forces.

Running alpha strike disruption tactics kept the opponent off my Spyder farm which if allowed to brew until turn 3 becomes a real force and I can start to win the game by attrition. I am liking Spyders + Scarabs much more in 7th than the equivalent points spent in wraiths.

Solar thermasite on a bargeLord becomes really really good when combined with Eternal Warrior and Hit and Run which I was able to pull off this game. Sick.


All in all, I think running alpha strikes of VeilTek-mobilized StormTek-populated Royal Courts is extremely potent. Ever living means those stranded units can have surprising longevity and nuisance factor. Against some opponents the stormTek winds up being the cryptek you can't ignore. Against other opponents the VeilTek winds up being the cryptek you can't ignore. Pressuring the opponent with cheap and annoyingly resilient stuff he can't ignore is huge.

I just played against the new Mephrit Necrons. I ran regular Necrons. My opponent ran Mephrit Necrons with the new Ct'an formation:

C'tan - Time's Arrow
Cryptek - Veil of Darkness, God Shackle (it was on one of the cryteks)
Cryptek - Chronometron, 3++ Invuln

The formation actually took me by surprise (ha! when was the last time you saw a regular C'tan on the table?), especially when you combine Time's Arrow with whip coil wraiths. It took out one of my bargelords.

But the main kicker has nothing to do with the Mephrit Dynasty. It was this...neither of my bargelords got back up. His bargelord got back up 5 times!!! Man, Necrons are so broken. LOL!!!

 jy2 wrote:
I just played against the new Mephrit Necrons. I ran regular Necrons. My opponent ran Mephrit Necrons with the new Ct'an formation:

C'tan - Time's Arrow
Cryptek - Veil of Darkness, God Shackle (it was on one of the cryteks)
Cryptek - Chronometron, 3++ Invuln

The formation actually took me by surprise (ha! when was the last time you saw a regular C'tan on the table?), especially when you combine Time's Arrow with whip coil wraiths. It took out one of my bargelords.

But the main kicker has nothing to do with the Mephrit Dynasty. It was this...neither of my bargelords got back up. His bargelord got back up 5 times!!! Man, Necrons are so broken. LOL!!!

That C'tan Shard is a melee beast, but it seems like something you can generally just run away from. The attached Crypteks means that is slogs around at infantry speed.

The Shard has two abilities. Do you remember what the second one was? I wonder if he went with Entropic Strike for additional Melee punch.

It seems like a C'Tan Shard build that would be exceptionally good at monster killing but not a very good TAC build.