The Future of Games Workshop Part 13 - and 14

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**jonolikespie**

I'm not sure if this belongs in the N&R thread but I think enough people are interested in this series that it deserves it's own here so without further ado: The Future of Games Workshop, Part 13.

http://masterminis.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/the-future-of-games-workshop-part-13.html

The Future of Games Workshop - Part 13
RIP 'Eavy Metal

I really don't feel like doing this.

It was Friday night, we had a great day here in the Paintingbuddha cave, I skyped with nerdy friends in France, Spain and the US about future projects and I was finally looking forward to having a relaxing evening playing some LoL with my friends. Then someone linked me to a post on Facebook and I felt compelled to write about it here.

Coincidentally, the apparent genius that currently runs Games Workshop has been a topic throughout the day in our office and I told someone who asked me to continue our 'mini-series' about the Future of Games Days and Games Workshop that I don't even feel like talking about them anymore. We would see the bitter truth in their upcoming yearly report anyways.

Store sales are allegedly down (according to some stores by up to 50% compared to last year), some 'creative' revenue-generating campaigns are being run for independent retails which are only aimed at moving as many sales into the current fiscal year as possible (creating an automatic 'bad start' into the next year), everyone in the US and the UK operations seems to have been fired - so cost should be down... Same ol' story.

A quick money grab with the rushed 40k rules was the straw we all expected and from what I can hear and read it has not been or will not be that successful.

Games Workshop.... I begin to feel like I don't care anymore - but people asked me to report on the latest 'fan-base interaction' - so here we go. I'll make it short and sweet

'Eavy Metal Facebook Page closes down

After GW slammed the door in the face of about 45,000 fans by shutting down their Forge World and Black Library pages (without prior notice), at least this time the admin of the 'Eavy Metal page gave us a two day warning before everything was gone.

The first to report on this was Ben Kelly on Blogs of War with an article appropriately named 'Powder Keg'. Head over to their blog for some more detailed inside information on what was going on.

So another 5600 GW fans shut out by GW's anti-social (media) efforts to estrange even their toughest hard-core fans.

At least there were about 2000 saved and invited to the new and inofficial 'Eavier Metal group.

I don't know - what do you think? Does anyone have an idea what GW is doing right now? If you do, please leave a comment

International Towel Day

So instead of ruining my Friday writing about this I actually ended up playing LOL with my friends until late at night and enjoyed the weekend by tearing off wallpaper and moving heavy oak furniture for a friend. Good times!

And now I sit here and waste the last few minutes of the 'International Towel Day' with yet another disappointing post about Games Workshop.

I think it's time someone did something about them.

There is certainly a very different 'feel' to this one than the early ones. To the point where I would say the author is just completely over it.

Mysterious Pants wrote:
The OP notes that part 14 is written, but doesn't link to it.

Here's a link: http://masterminis.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-future-of-games-workshop-part-14.html?showComment=1403025794922. Just started reading, looks interesting

**Tannhauser42**

Like he said, when the yearly report comes out, we'll all know for certain, one way or the other.

**MeanGreenStompa**

The Eavy Metal facebook page was set up, without permission of the company, by Eavy Metal painters but left open to invite others to come and post.

It used trademarked, official GW logo and design.

It was a site/page where 3rd party minis and parts were often displayed.

Occasionally other companies' ranges were shown.

Frequent discussion of other companies' paints and materials were shown.

Painters used it to display their wares and offer their services, ebay sales were linked.

It was unregulated, whilst it did have admin, they could not be there all the time, it's language and content could not be monitored, something that might not sit well with a company that aims towards a young market and could be legally implicated, due to the 'official' look of the sight, should something untoward occur.

I personally find it absolutely boggling that GW continue to totally withdraw from any form of social media and interaction with their customer base, but in this case, I see it and see why they are doing it right away. It wasn't set up professionally, it could have been mistaken for an official site and people were doing things on it not in the best interests of the company.

**Jehan-reznor**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
Like he said, when the yearly report comes out, we'll all know for certain, one way or the other.

But they will do some smokescreen writing so that everything will look peachy. I think GW will Continue on a few more Years? And without an announcement it will just stop.

**Rick_1138**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The Eavy Metal facebook page was set up, without permission of the company, by Eavy Metal painters but left open to invite others to come and post.

It used trademarked, official GW logo and design.

It was a site/page where 3rd party minis and parts were often displayed.

Occasionally other companies' ranges were shown.

Frequent discussion of other companies' paints and materials were shown.

Painters used it to display their wares and offer their services, ebay sales were linked.

It was unregulated, whilst it did have admin, they could not be there all the time, it's language and content could not be monitored, something that might not sit well with a company that aims towards a young market and could be legally implicated, due to the 'official' look of the sight, should something untoward occur.

I personally find it absolutely boggling that GW continue to totally withdraw from any form of social media and interaction with their customer base, but in this case, I see it and see why they are doing it right away. It wasn't set up professionally, it could have been mistaken for an official site and people were doing things on it not in the best interests of the company.

.

My thoughts exactly, and after trying to explain this to the QQing masses on FB I got sick of constantly being shouted down.

TBH I can see why GW just don't bother with open discussion now. However if they could have a decent monitored forum it would be very welcome, however they know it will just turn into the crap-storm that was the Star Trek Online beta release forum and the ban hammer will loom large, then close down, then re-open with more shouting, close again and eventually a year or so later, re-open and the haters had left. GW I feel doesn't have the inclination to put that mch effort in, and I don't blame them.

**Warboss Gubbinz**

Just theory crafting here. Is it possible they've been in a communication tear-down mode for a while now because they are under the impression they can start the slate clean when the new investors or management group is hired?

You generally don't see hibernation mode like this unless a a company is preparing to be sold off, (outside of normal marketing channels) but my own experience is with investors like ABRY and others..

**Sir Arun**

maybe 7th edition was GW's last desperate attempt to reignite the hobby? they might be closing shop by the end of the year

**Schlyne**

The company has probably been going through and is still restructuring.

You can't look at forge world or the black library website even in a GW store now. Those are sister sites and are blocked on the order point.

Individual GW stores live or die by the community that supports them locally. If you don't order through the store order point or buy off the shelf through the store itself you don't support the store. Even if you order through the website at home and ship to the store, you don't support the store. GW stores cannot advertise anything other than the individual GW store facebook page (which is so stupid. I mean, the store can't even put up a

sign other than what's on the storefront? That does the store no good if the store is in a recessed area of a strip mall.) The GW store can't even put a little sign saying that it's running an event in the store itself.

If that individual store does not make money, don't expect it to stay.

GW seems to have been doing a lot of "We are covering our butts" when it comes to their IP over the last year. After all the chapter house stuff has settled out, you can see why some of these pages have probably disappeared.

**Sir Arun**

Or maybe everyone buying stuff from 3rd party retail discounters + ebay is whats killing their sales

**reds8n**

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28707.html

The seventh edition of Games Workshop’s Warhammer 40,000, which launched last Friday, is outselling Sixth Edition, which launched two years ago (see “Warhammer 40k Sixth Edition Rulebook’”). “We’re already beating the sales numbers we did on the last edition,” Games Workshop Director of North American Sales Trade Recruitment Matt Lewandowski told ICv2. “It’s selling better because it’s a better product, and long term what will happen is that our customers will vote with their wallets and you’ll see great things from this edition.”

Lewandowski explained the differences in play between the two editions. “The 7th Edition of 40k is going to change the way that people build their armies,” he explained. “It’s going to revolutionize how we build our armies and play the game. Previously there was a very structured way that you would organize and build your armies. You’d use what’s called a Force Organization Chart. You have to have so many troops and so many heroes, etc.

“You can still build your army that way in the new edition, but in addition to that, you can build your army using something called Unbound, which quite literally means there are no restrictions. You take any model you like, regardless of point value, size, anything, and you can put it together and build an army. So literally there are no limits. You can do anything you want whether it’s a background story and replicating that, whether it’s just I like these ten models and they look great, or I want to have these five characters and they’re really cool together, and do it.”

The core product is a slipcased set of three hardcovers: A Galaxy of War is 144 pages explaining the art of collecting and painting armies; Dark Millennium is 128 pages describing the setting of the 41st Millennium; and The Rules is a 208-page rulebook for Warhammer 40,000. The set retails for $85.

**Compel**

reds8n wrote:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28707.html

The seventh edition of Games Workshop’s Warhammer 40,000, which launched last Friday, is outselling Sixth Edition, which launched two years ago (see “Warhammer 40k Sixth Edition Rulebook’”). “We’re already beating the sales numbers we did on the last edition,” Games Workshop Director of North American Sales Trade Recruitment Matt Lewandowski told ICv2. “It’s selling better because it’s a better product, and long term what will happen is that our customers will vote with their wallets and you’ll see great things from this edition.”

Nope, I've got nothing... Not a thing.

**Hivefleet Oblivion**

Sir Arun wrote:
maybe 7th edition was GW's last desperate attempt to reignite the hobby? they might be closing shop by the end of the year

Interesting post... shows how much hysteria there is concerning the company. They have indeed done lots of silly things, but they're still making around £15m a year.

What more likely is that they will close up some shops. The main exposure is their retail network. Our FLGS is a big online retailer, and they reckon sales are up on many recent releases; they sold hundreds of Imperial Knights, even Tyranids sold well. But I don't get the same feeling from the local GW store, and they all have heavy fixed costs, so if sales are moving from their high-street stores to discount outlets, it will leach profits quicky.

**Brother Gyoken**

Rick_1138 wrote:

TBH I can see why GW just don't bother with open discussion now. However if they could have a decent monitored forum it would be very welcome, however they know it will just turn into the crap-storm that was the Star Trek Online beta release forum

STO was a garbage product that cost too much and the company had no intention of listening to their fanbase.

Hmm, there seems to be a common thread here.

Sir Arun wrote:
maybe 7th edition was GW's last desperate attempt to reignite the hobby? they might be closing shop by the end of the year

If things are as bad as they look, I don't think a new edition of one of their games would save them. They might be on the way out already and just making one last cash grab. It wouldn't be GW without them!

**jonolikespie**

reds8n wrote:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28707.html

Well... I'm not sure what to say to that.

I find it very hard to believe but then I don't have any real proof that isn't the case so I guess I'll have to wait until the next financial report.

Even if it is selling really well though I don't think the report will be anything more than the half yearly one with a bunch of stuff duct taped to it to make it seem solid for one more year.

**Herzlos**

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Sir Arun wrote:
maybe 7th edition was GW's last desperate attempt to reignite the hobby? they might be closing shop by the end of the year

Interesting post... shows how much hysteria there is concerning the company. They have indeed done lots of silly things, but they're still making around £15m a year.

What more likely is that they will close up some shops. The main exposure is their retail network. Our FLGS is a big online retailer, and they reckon sales are up on many recent releases; they sold hundreds of Imperial Knights, even Tyranids sold well. But I don't get the same feeling from the local GW store, and they all have heavy fixed costs, so if sales are moving from their high-street stores to discount outlets, it will leach profits quicky.

And as they close shops, they'll find it harder to recruit and keep customers, making things worse. At least, that's what'll happen without decent 3rd party support. There's no reason a local GW couldn't close and leave an FLGS as the official go-to place with direct ordering etc, but they'll never do that.

**Orlanth**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
The Eavy Metal facebook page was set up, without permission of the company, by Eavy Metal painters but left open to invite others to come and post.

It used trademarked, official GW logo and design.

It was a site/page where 3rd party minis and parts were often displayed.

Occasionally other companies' ranges were shown.

Frequent discussion of other companies' paints and materials were shown.

Painters used it to display their wares and offer their services, ebay sales were linked.

The major issue here was that it was Facebook.
This is an IP nightmare.

If you set up an eBay trade 'company' your company effectively belongs to eBay, not you.
If you set up a Facebook site, that site belongs to Facebook not you.
Place IP images on Facebook those images are hosted on Facebook property, the images are still yours but the copies are not, they are Facebook's.
It's ok if a third party places images on Facebook, no IP rights are surrendered, for GW to do it makes their position legally unclear.
A lack of legal clarity is bad for GW when it comes to IP, and the problem is specific to GW. So its safer not to have an official presence on Facebook while other companies are gunning for you.
After all there is no market for bootleg Warmachine miniatures et al, only the Warhammer's and Battletech have this problem on any notable scale.

I can see a smartaleck lawyer getting away with saying something along the lines of: 'Our clients based their miniature on this image GW of their own will posted on Facebook. Facebook legally owns the .img file hosting and have not issued a C&D to defend their property. Our clients only used this specific .img file for their inspiration and not any other."
Ridiculous? Yes. But a loophole is a loophole.

**Azreal13**

jonolikespie wrote:
reds8n wrote:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28707.html

Well... I'm not sure what to say to that.

I find it very hard to believe but then I don't have any real proof that isn't the case so I guess I'll have to wait until the next financial report.

Even if it is selling really well though I don't think the report will be anything more than the half yearly one with a bunch of stuff duct taped to it to make it seem solid for one more year.

That's very easy spin.

7th is outselling 6th, sure, but at what point in 6th's life cycle? Has 7th outsold 6th on launch weekend figures, or last weekend's?

Very easy to make a point without lying and still be massively deceiving, time will tell.

**weeble1000**

jonolikespie wrote:
reds8n wrote:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28707.html

Well... I'm not sure what to say to that.

I find it very hard to believe but then I don't have any real proof that isn't the case so I guess I'll have to wait until the next financial report.

Even if it is selling really well though I don't think the report will be anything more than the half yearly one with a bunch of stuff duct taped to it to make it seem solid for one more year.

What one can say is that it is crazy unusual for GW to do an interview like that. GW has been pretty drastically (for GW) changing course on several of its long established practices. While laudable, to me it reeks of desperation rather than a sudden epiphany in the management. GW has always been very slow to adapt and highly resistant to change. That change, such as it is, has only come on the heels of such a dismal mid year report and precarious position says 'frantic scramble' to me far more than 'well-structured reorientation of perspective'. But hey, GW has surprised before...

I am skeptical though. I've seen the way those guys at GW think and behave. It is hard to not see them making the same stubborn, short-sighted mistakes over and over. Remember that Tom Kirby was the guy who touted the viability of GW's IP enforcement scheme to go after "intransigent small infringers" that "cease and desist as soon as they get the letter" immediately after GW's dismal outcome in the Chapterhouse trial and just prior to firing the company's general counsel.

Our plan works, even though it objectively does not, and despite the fact that we got rid of the counsel that put the plan into action. But don't worry investors, 7th Ed is selling better than 6th Ed! If you compare the first two days of 7th Ed sales through direct order with those of 6th Ed...

**Agamemnon2**

I don't think anything can kill GW, and and any rumors of its impending demise are premature. That doesn't mean it'll be doing all that great either, but just slouching onwards like the crippled giant it is, churning dividends for its faceless investors and selling kits to an ever-changing horde of 10-12 year olds.

**Accolade**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
I don't think anything can kill GW, and and any rumors of its impending demise are premature. That doesn't mean it'll be doing all that great either, but just slouching onwards like the crippled giant it is, churning dividends for its faceless investors and selling kits to an ever-changing horde of 10-12 year olds.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with this.

All-in-all, the state of GW is just sad. Looking at the News&Rumors thread about GW-Germany closing down, it is obvious the company is continuing to shrink from its market domination ten or so years ago, and a lot of it seems self-inflicted. More and more of GW's facets have disappeared and what we're left with now is 40k being plugged for all its worth to keep the company profitable.

I think that in the long run GW will continue to run, but it will become less and less popular until eventually it'll be seen in FLGS at the volume of less dominant games like X-WIng or even historicals (with people talking about the "good-old days"

). And I guess that's good for diversity, but still, it never needed to happen.

**Flashman**

I'll say this (again)... 7th Edition is the very first edition of 40K I have no intention of buying. I've bought every single one before this including Rogue Trader.

It just doesn't generate excitement for me in the same way any more. As I've mentioned before, this could be because I'm approaching 40, but my every increasing X Wing Miniatures Game collection suggests I'm still not adverse to the idea of buying new toys.

EDIT - And if they pull this unbound crap in a new Fantasy Edition, I'm definitely through with GW games.

**Sean_OBrien**

azreal13 wrote:
jonolikespie wrote:
reds8n wrote:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28707.html

Well... I'm not sure what to say to that.

I find it very hard to believe but then I don't have any real proof that isn't the case so I guess I'll have to wait until the next financial report.

Even if it is selling really well though I don't think the report will be anything more than the half yearly one with a bunch of stuff duct taped to it to make it seem solid for one more year.

That's very easy spin.

7th is outselling 6th, sure, but at what point in 6th's life cycle? Has 7th outsold 6th on launch weekend figures, or last weekend's?

Very easy to make a point without lying and still be massively deceiving, time will tell.

Without more information it really isn't a useful statement. Outselling how? When 6th dropped - it was listed at $74.25 for the basic book and $132 for the collector's edition. The current basic book is $85 and the collectors edition is $340. It also has Visions, the psychic cards, the iBook, eBook...

If they are talking units sold - I find it hard to believe that they have been selling more actual rulebooks than 6th Edition. But, they can still sell to a lot less people and be "beating the sales numbers we did on the last edition". The price increase alone would make up for over a 10% drop in sales. If even a small fraction of people are picking up one of the electronic versions to go along with their physical book - that would help make up a lot of ground as well. Include the things like the cards and perhaps the Visions book...well, their customers could shrink by 50% and they can still beat the previous edition in sales (in dollars).

**Azreal13**

Exactly Sean, you can prove anything with statistics!

If you can't make it the best edition yet on $ sold, or units shifted, you then start making more ephemeral statements like "fastest selling" or "best edition yet" which can be defined and structured to suit your purposes.

**nanook**

I really hope they take a hit on the next financials otherwise we are doomed to see no change at GW.

I have not bought 7th out of principle as it seems a lot of money for basically a fix of a few things from 6th. I am waiting for the small rulebook as I can't justify the cost

**Azreal13**

We've actually seen a LOT of change from GW recently, just not perhaps enough in the areas that matter to us as wargamers.

We've seen multi purchases earning a discount, digital editions at cheaper price points etc etc.

There are signs that they are slowly realising their somewhat unconventional approaches weren't earning them enough cash and simultaneously were earning them the ire of their customer base, which was only going to hurt them further.

Total change will take time, and the retirement/redundancy/leaving of certain key personnel, but I see another one or two underwhelming reports as a good thing, as it will send the only message that GW will hear - that the way they do business is not working, not making money, and they need to change it.

I will actually be MORE optimistic for the long term future of GW and 40K if the FYE report shows they're still a good bit down, year in year, and so will have to keep trying to improve, rather than return to being lazy and complacent.

**Pacific**

reds8n wrote:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/28707.html

The seventh edition of Games Workshop’s Warhammer 40,000, which launched last Friday, is outselling Sixth Edition, which launched two years ago (see “Warhammer 40k Sixth Edition Rulebook’”). “We’re already beating the sales numbers we did on the last edition,” Games Workshop Director of North American Sales Trade Recruitment Matt Lewandowski told ICv2. “It’s selling better because it’s a better product, and long term what will happen is that our customers will vote with their wallets and you’ll see great things from this edition.”

Lewandowski explained the differences in play between the two editions. “The 7th Edition of 40k is going to change the way that people build their armies,” he explained. “It’s going to revolutionize how we build our armies and play the game. Previously there was a very structured way that you would organize and build your armies. You’d use what’s called a Force Organization Chart. You have to have so many troops and so many heroes, etc.

“You can still build your army that way in the new edition, but in addition to that, you can build your army using something called Unbound, which quite literally means there are no restrictions. You take any model you like, regardless of point value, size, anything, and you can put it together and build an army. So literally there are no limits. You can do anything you want whether it’s a background story and replicating that, whether it’s just I like these ten models and they look great, or I want to have these five characters and they’re really cool together, and do it.”

The core product is a slipcased set of three hardcovers: A Galaxy of War is 144 pages explaining the art of collecting and painting armies; Dark Millennium is 128 pages describing the setting of the 41st Millennium; and The Rules is a 208-page rulebook for Warhammer 40,000. The set retails for $85.

Hmm.. I think I can smoke emanating from some trousers there, and also possibly smell a rodent nearby. 'We're beating the sales numbers of the last edition' is a rather ambiguous phrase though in any case, meaningless without numbers.

Normally things like this sell very well when there has been a long gap since the last one hit the market. I'm sure that's why the PS4/Xbox One are selling so well, there was a sense of anticipation within that industry and tremendous buildup, but that is reduced significantly if you start to spam your customer base with releases.

This one is more expensive, comes on top of recently released, expensive expansion books, and had practically zero marketing. So, if it is really a sell-out, I would be extremely surprised!

**Tannhauser42**

Sean_OBrien wrote:

Without more information it really isn't a useful statement. Outselling how? When 6th dropped - it was listed at $74.25 for the basic book and $132 for the collector's edition. The current basic book is $85 and the collectors edition is $340. It also has Visions, the psychic cards, the iBook, eBook...

If they are talking units sold - I find it hard to believe that they have been selling more actual rulebooks than 6th Edition. But, they can still sell to a lot less people and be "beating the sales numbers we did on the last edition". The price increase alone would make up for over a 10% drop in sales. If even a small fraction of people are picking up one of the electronic versions to go along with their physical book - that would help make up a lot of ground as well. Include the things like the cards and perhaps the Visions book...well, their customers could shrink by 50% and they can still beat the previous edition in sales (in dollars).

On the other hand, they could be selling more 7th rulebooks than 6th for a very simple reason: the 6th Edition starter set. How many people bought that instead of the big rulebook? With no 7th starter right now, people are forced to buy the rulebook instead, thus, more sales of the rulebook.

Of course, this theory is based on the assumption that the 6th Edition starter came out at the same time as the rulebook. I don't really remember if it did.

**Sean_OBrien**

Tannhauser42 wrote:

On the other hand, they could be selling more 7th rulebooks than 6th for a very simple reason: the 6th Edition starter set. How many people bought that instead of the big rulebook? With no 7th starter right now, people are forced to buy the rulebook instead, thus, more sales of the rulebook.

Of course, this theory is based on the assumption that the 6th Edition starter came out at the same time as the rulebook. I don't really remember if it did.

Think the starter didn't come out for several months afterwards - but I haven't been following 40K closely enough to know the release schedule.

An interesting rumor I have heard from several sources is that the "new rules" they will be putting in the starter set in a few months will not be the whole of the rulebook, rather just some quickplay rules. Makes sure people can't save money by buying those and they have to shell out for the BRB.

**Jehan-reznor**

Flashman wrote:
I'll say this (again)... 7th Edition is the very first edition of 40K I have no intention of buying. I've bought every single one before this including Rogue Trader.

It just doesn't generate excitement for me in the same way any more. As I've mentioned before, this could be because I'm approaching 40, but my every increasing X Wing Miniatures Game collection suggests I'm still not adverse to the idea of buying new toys.

EDIT - And if they pull this unbound crap in a new Fantasy Edition, I'm definitely through with GW games.

I would buy it, if it was in a new boxed set. (Squats Vs Space Skaven

)

**AduroT**

Of course they're selling more books than the old edition what with the new edition being a three pack of books.