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Sry - what rule change are we talking about?

 Arbiter wrote:
Can you LOS wounds from bolters onto the barge making the shots useless?

It's not LOS, but you can allocate same hits in pools, and distribute the pools to either the Overlord or the Chariot in shooting. It's in the new Chariot rules.

It's exceedingly broken is what it is. I really hope this gets addressed as it makes the CCB way to gamey IMO.

The new chariot rules have way too many holes in them.

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's exceedingly broken is what it is. I really hope this gets addressed as it makes the CCB way to gamey IMO.

The new chariot rules have way too many holes in them.

Not really any holes in the rules that I can see.

Also that necron chariot lord is 300 points. He better be able to hold his own. For that many points I can get 6 objective secured units that can run away from him all game. He will literally not be able to kill them all.

Bargelord approaches DP points level - that is a major investment !

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Bargelord approaches DP points level - that is a major investment !

Yep, two of them is about 600 points so yea.......

Add in two barges and a doomscythe(for that feth you invis) looking at about 1000 points already gone.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Looking to be a great game!
Cheers for the shout-out btw, although the name "Mr Genius" makes me sound more arrogant than my username already does... :/

I'm backing the crons here.

But I like the nickname, Mr Genius.

Haha whatever pleases you, almighty Jy2

Although the Creed reference does kinda go missing


Anyway, fantastic game for the crons.

As I suspected (and saw in my game), crons are pretty damn powerful this edition.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they're only below daemons and eldar, and not by much.

I'd throw Space Marines and Astra Militarum into that mix.

The jury's still out on who will be the best, but I'm willing to bet on one of those armies.

 MechaBeast wrote:
I've never got any production out of a HBC-tide. The gun almost requires you to Nova every turn and even then only glances AV12 on a 6 and the gun tries to kill you every round. It does well against infantry but so does a S8 ap2 plate.

I'd go with a mix of both, especially since flyers are still going strong in tournament play (and now probably more than ever).

DarthDiggler wrote:
I have the same 3 level tower I use for terrain. I had no idea they made a 2 level tower and putting the two of them together makes a great LOS blocking piece of terrain. I'm going to have to get that 2 level tower if I can find it.

So what is it called? I might have to look into getting one myself.

 Sarigar wrote:
I don't have my codex with me, but I thought a Res Orb worked on a model who lost its last wound. It appears you lost the Command Barge and utilized the Res Orb on it at the bottom of turn 1 . Am I misremembering the rule or miss an FAQ?

EDIT: Nevermind. I found the rule in the rulebook. Wow. That is quite a significant change.

It makes sense since the Overlord can never leave his barge. Otherwise, I'd consider it a nerf as last edition, if you killed the barge, the Overlord can still disembark and act independently.

 Arbiter wrote:
Can you LOS wounds from bolters onto the barge making the shots useless?

 Sasori wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:
Can you LOS wounds from bolters onto the barge making the shots useless?

It's not LOS, but you can allocate same hits in pools, and distribute the pools to either the Overlord or the Chariot in shooting. It's in the new Chariot rules.

Sasori is right. That makes him much more survivable. Allocate the meltas to the Overlord with the 3++ and any small-arms fire to the barge.

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's exceedingly broken is what it is. I really hope this gets addressed as it makes the CCB way to gamey IMO.

The new chariot rules have way too many holes in them.

It's only broken IMO if you can join him to a unit. Otherwise, by himself, the Bargelord should be durable considering he is about 300-pts in my configuration.

 Leth wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's exceedingly broken is what it is. I really hope this gets addressed as it makes the CCB way to gamey IMO.

The new chariot rules have way too many holes in them.

Not really any holes in the rules that I can see.

Also that necron chariot lord is 300 points. He better be able to hold his own. For that many points I can get 6 objective secured units that can run away from him all game. He will literally not be able to kill them all.

Agreed.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Bargelord approaches DP points level - that is a major investment !

Yeah....and he still isn't very good against horde armies.

Now give him Hit-&-Run and it becomes another thing entirely.....

....oh hi, Mr Zandrekh!

 jy2 wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Looking to be a great game!
Cheers for the shout-out btw, although the name "Mr Genius" makes me sound more arrogant than my username already does... :/

I'm backing the crons here.

But I like the nickname, Mr Genius.

Haha whatever pleases you, almighty Jy2

Although the Creed reference does kinda go missing


Anyway, fantastic game for the crons.

As I suspected (and saw in my game), crons are pretty damn powerful this edition.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they're only below daemons and eldar, and not by much.

I'd throw Space Marines and Astra Militarum into that mix.

The jury's still out on who will be the best, but I'm willing to bet on one of those armies.

Interesting...

Any chance we can hear your reasons why? As a Guard *ahem* ASTRA MILITARUM player, I'd be pretty happy being top tier

Tactical_Genius wrote:

Interesting...

Any chance we can hear your reasons why? As a Guard *ahem* ASTRA MILITARUM player, I'd be pretty happy being top tier

Guards have all the tools to be successful in tournament play.

Need lots of OS scoring? Guards can take a lot of troops and run it MSU-style. You can also put them in OS transports if needed.

Morale a problem? Not with Yarrick's Draconian Discipline. Or you could always just mech them up. Or take Priests.

Mobility issues? Can still put troops in vendettas, mech them up or take deepstriking Tempestus allies.

Facing against skimmers with 3+ cover. Now you can issue orders to ignore their cover.

Need psychics? You've got plenty of Primaris Psykers now, and you can ally in Inquisition as well.

Firepower? Please....

Hordes? Barrages, barrages, barrages.

Facing enemy deathstars? Go at them a la MSU or blob up to create your own deathstar.

The new AM is just so flexible its not even fun. They've got the tools to deal with almost anything.

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's exceedingly broken is what it is. I really hope this gets addressed as it makes the CCB way to gamey IMO.

The new chariot rules have way too many holes in them.

Take away the sweep attacks that are exclusive to the CCB and it becomes far less desirable. While it won't happen for a while, I would almost bet money that those sweep attacks will be gone with the new Codex: Necrons (whenever it comes out). Hopefully we will see some FAQs on this badboy to clear up (meaning remove any possiblity of) the IC status being transferred to the Chariot and the rider's wargear applying to the Chariot, because that's an argument I would prefer to not have to deal with every time I play against Necrons. Luckily, my regular Necron opponent can sometimes be reasonable and even he recognizes when something is severely broken.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's exceedingly broken is what it is. I really hope this gets addressed as it makes the CCB way to gamey IMO.

The new chariot rules have way too many holes in them.

Take away the sweep attacks that are exclusive to the CCB and it becomes far less desirable. While it won't happen for a while, I would almost bet money that those sweep attacks will be gone with the new Codex: Necrons (whenever it comes out). Hopefully we will see some FAQs on this badboy to clear up (meaning remove any possiblity of) the IC status being transferred to the Chariot and the rider's wargear applying to the Chariot, because that's an argument I would prefer to not have to deal with every time I play against Necrons. Luckily, my regular Necron opponent can sometimes be reasonable and even he recognizes when something is severely broken.

To me, the sweep attacks are good, but they aren't the main reason why the Bargelord is great IMO. I take him more for his mobility. He just adds to my philosophy that Necrons are masters of the Movement phase (i.e. my strategy of Positional Dominance). I love the fact that he can move 30" with either AV13 & 4+ cover or 2+/3++ saves. I consider the sweep attacks as a bonus if my opponent is unfortunate enough to get near him.

The sweep attacks aren't very reliable due to their short range. It's the combination of high mobility and very high resiliency with good offensive power. Add MSS.

Jy2, I've always respected your Necron skillz, but 300 points for a CC lord seems crazy to me. That's more than a unit of Wraiths, more than a trio of Annihilation Barges. I'll have to try it myself, but I'm intensely dubious.

My guess at the new top tier is Armies Of The Imperium. Its hard to say which particular Battle Bro will win out as best primary detachment (or maybe just go unbound), but I think the best will be some coalition of Imperial interests, with the best guys from a huge slew of data sheets and codexes working together.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The sweep attacks aren't very reliable due to their short range. It's the combination of high mobility and very high resiliency with good offensive power. Add MSS.

Yeah. I swept one of the devilfish in this game but missed with all 3 of his attacks and I had to get very close to it in order to do so. But that type of stuff can and does happen on occasions. That's why I consider anything that I am able to successfully sweep to be a bonus instead of the norm.

40kenthusiast wrote:
Jy2, I've always respected your Necron skillz, but 300 points for a CC lord seems crazy to me. That's more than a unit of Wraiths, more than a trio of Annihilation Barges. I'll have to try it myself, but I'm intensely dubious.

My guess at the new top tier is Armies Of The Imperium. Its hard to say which particular Battle Bro will win out as best primary detachment (or maybe just go unbound), but I think the best will be some coalition of Imperial interests, with the best guys from a huge slew of data sheets and codexes working together.

Honestly, you don't have to kit him out to be so beefy, but I just like my 1-man wrecking crew to be armed to the hilt. The way I look at it though is that he isn't just a 1-man team. Rather, he complements the rest of my army well in trying to control my opponent's Movement phase as he is a huge threat to most armies.

The armies of the Imperium will be very good. OS (Objectives Secured) troops will be the way to go in 7E competitive play. Eldar, AM and Necrons will all compete for the top spots as well. Daemons are also very good, though those who opt to go psychic-heavy will suffer a bit in the offensive department. Time will tell who will come out on top and who will be top-tier.

Being both a Tau and Necron player I viewed this as a great way to gauge both armies in 7th ( I still haven't gotten to use either in 7th yet ).

For the Tau side:
I felt that the army was very uniform and tailored to deal with certain armies. HYMP Broadsides are very effective at shooting down flyers, and against Necron flyers that is an important thing. The problem comes in when relying on Early Warning Override for Interceptor just isn't reasonable anymore with jink saves being a base of 4+. While it is cost efficient to have EWO I feel that points could have been managed better; for instance, instead of having the extra Devilfish he could have thrown Velocity Trackers on four of the Missilesides (that's the cost of the Devilfish alone).

He could have replaced one group of Misslesides altogether with a Hammerhead with a Disruption pod and been at the same exact point value. In addition, rather than having the third group of Firewarriors he could have further upgraded the Hammerhead to have Longstrike and the other upgrades needed to make that tank do more work and earn it's points back easily.

All in all, I feel as though he didn't really capitalize on his armies strengths.

For the Necrons:
Bloody good list jy2. I just feel as though that any army that can do vehicle spam will win in most cases; Astra Militarium being the army that best capitalizes on that.

 Harukae wrote:
Being both a Tau and Necron player I viewed this as a great way to gauge both armies in 7th ( I still haven't gotten to use either in 7th yet ).

For the Tau side:
I felt that the army was very uniform and tailored to deal with certain armies. HYMP Broadsides are very effective at shooting down flyers, and against Necron flyers that is an important thing. The problem comes in when relying on Early Warning Override for Interceptor just isn't reasonable anymore with jink saves being a base of 4+. While it is cost efficient to have EWO I feel that points could have been managed better; for instance, instead of having the extra Devilfish he could have thrown Velocity Trackers on four of the Missilesides (that's the cost of the Devilfish alone).

He could have replaced one group of Misslesides altogether with a Hammerhead with a Disruption pod and been at the same exact point value. In addition, rather than having the third group of Firewarriors he could have further upgraded the Hammerhead to have Longstrike and the other upgrades needed to make that tank do more work and earn it's points back easily.

All in all, I feel as though he didn't really capitalize on his armies strengths.

For the Necrons:
Bloody good list jy2. I just feel as though that any army that can do vehicle spam will win in most cases; Astra Militarium being the army that best capitalizes on that.

Vehicles still have very real weaknesses and while they will be good, they will not win a game for you. Need to have some meat with that metal. Yes thats right....FLAYED ONES

 Harukae wrote:
Being both a Tau and Necron player I viewed this as a great way to gauge both armies in 7th ( I still haven't gotten to use either in 7th yet ).

For the Tau side:
I felt that the army was very uniform and tailored to deal with certain armies. HYMP Broadsides are very effective at shooting down flyers, and against Necron flyers that is an important thing. The problem comes in when relying on Early Warning Override for Interceptor just isn't reasonable anymore with jink saves being a base of 4+. While it is cost efficient to have EWO I feel that points could have been managed better; for instance, instead of having the extra Devilfish he could have thrown Velocity Trackers on four of the Missilesides (that's the cost of the Devilfish alone).

He could have replaced one group of Misslesides altogether with a Hammerhead with a Disruption pod and been at the same exact point value. In addition, rather than having the third group of Firewarriors he could have further upgraded the Hammerhead to have Longstrike and the other upgrades needed to make that tank do more work and earn it's points back easily.

All in all, I feel as though he didn't really capitalize on his armies strengths.

For the Necrons:
Bloody good list jy2. I just feel as though that any army that can do vehicle spam will win in most cases; Astra Militarium being the army that best capitalizes on that.

His list is a 6th Ed. TAC (Take-All-Comer's) list. However, the problem is that the meta has changed between 6th and 7th. In 6th, it was predominantly infantry-based armies, which his army excelled at taking out. In 7th, the meta has now reverted back to mech. And while normal mech he can handle, his army really isn't designed to take on massed heavy mech. Then again, this was his very 1st game of 7th and it was more of a getting-the-feel-of-a-new-edition type of game. He will adapt in time.

Eldar, Necrons, Space Marines and AM can all capitalize on mech very well. Marines have plenty of OS units (typically 18 for a competitive list), IG can spam heavy mech (leman russes), Eldar has arguably one of the best transports in the game (I'd say its a toss-up between them and Necron night scythes) and Necrons have the fastest transport in the game (and they are arguably also the army that best counters mechdar). All are very strong, tournament builds.

 Leth wrote:

Vehicles still have very real weaknesses and while they will be good, they will not win a game for you. Need to have some meat with that metal. Yes thats right....FLAYED ONES

Right. You still need to have a balanced list as some armies can easily handle MSU builds.

To be honest I think that tau player (Spam Adams?) was not running an ideal list. The 3 Bursttides was a mistake, 1 at most without ECPA. I would be glad to deliver the pain to your Necrons and regain the reputation of how powerful the greater good still is, despite the nerfs. mwahaha

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
To be honest I think that tau player (Spam Adams?) was not running an ideal list. The 3 Bursttides was a mistake, 1 at most without ECPA. I would be glad to deliver the pain to your Necrons and regain the reputation of how powerful the greater good still is, despite the nerfs. mwahaha

Ok, you're on! Prepare to feel the wrath of my living robots!

Hey jy2, you should mention to Spam Adams that he has everything needed for a Firebase Support Cadre already, he only need to move his broadsides into 2x3 instead of 3x2. Free Tankhunter on 6 Broadsides and one of his Riptides would really help shore his list up for the 7th edition Meta. Heck, that may even have make a difference in this game. Although Tankhunter is no longer mandatory from his Buffcommander, he'll get more mileage out of him in Three man Broadside units. Also, the unit the Buffcommander joins should have Target Locks instead of EWO, it will allow him to target 3 seperate units and drop 2-3 light tanks fairly reliably and can still be concentrated to drop one AV13 target per turn.


Otherwise, great report and nasty Cron list. Necron are truly going to be a force to be reckoned with in 7th, seriously. And the Bargelord is a monster, although you had a few rule snafus. Great game.


I'm likely going to be at the NOVA, hope to see you there and although it may be to my detriment, I'd hope to you have as an opponent.

 Zagman wrote:
Hey jy2, you should mention to Spam Adams that he has everything needed for a Firebase Support Cadre already, he only need to move his broadsides into 2x3 instead of 3x2. Free Tankhunter on 6 Broadsides and one of his Riptides would really help shore his list up for the 7th edition Meta. Heck, that may even have make a difference in this game. Although Tankhunter is no longer mandatory from his Buffcommander, he'll get more mileage out of him in Three man Broadside units. Also, the unit the Buffcommander joins should have Target Locks instead of EWO, it will allow him to target 3 seperate units and drop 2-3 light tanks fairly reliably and can still be concentrated to drop one AV13 target per turn.


Otherwise, great report and nasty Cron list. Necron are truly going to be a force to be reckoned with in 7th, seriously. And the Bargelord is a monster, although you had a few rule snafus. Great game.


I'm likely going to be at the NOVA, hope to see you there and although it may be to my detriment, I'd hope to you have as an opponent.

I actually discussed that with Adam after our game. He will be running the Firebase Support Cadre in the future....unless he decides to change up his list completely.

I won't be going to NOVA this year, but next year, I will make it a priority to attend NOVA (this year, I used up my gaming travel time to go to Adepticon) as that is the other major event that I have not attended yet. If we ever meet in a future tournament, then yeah, let's play!

 jy2 wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
Hey jy2, you should mention to Spam Adams that he has everything needed for a Firebase Support Cadre already, he only need to move his broadsides into 2x3 instead of 3x2. Free Tankhunter on 6 Broadsides and one of his Riptides would really help shore his list up for the 7th edition Meta. Heck, that may even have make a difference in this game. Although Tankhunter is no longer mandatory from his Buffcommander, he'll get more mileage out of him in Three man Broadside units. Also, the unit the Buffcommander joins should have Target Locks instead of EWO, it will allow him to target 3 seperate units and drop 2-3 light tanks fairly reliably and can still be concentrated to drop one AV13 target per turn.


Otherwise, great report and nasty Cron list. Necron are truly going to be a force to be reckoned with in 7th, seriously. And the Bargelord is a monster, although you had a few rule snafus. Great game.


I'm likely going to be at the NOVA, hope to see you there and although it may be to my detriment, I'd hope to you have as an opponent.

I actually discussed that with Adam after our game. He will be running the Firebase Support Cadre in the future....unless he decides to change up his list completely.

I won't be going to NOVA this year, but next year, I will make it a priority to attend NOVA (this year, I used up my gaming travel time to go to Adepticon) as that is the other major event that I have not attended yet. If we ever meet in a future tournament, then yeah, let's play!

Understandable. I was looking at going to Adepticon this year, but got the wait list, and by the time I got the option to go I opted not to. Hopefully we will be able to get in a game someday, though it may require me flying out West for the BAO or LVO next year.

 jy2 wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
To be honest I think that tau player (Spam Adams?) was not running an ideal list. The 3 Bursttides was a mistake, 1 at most without ECPA. I would be glad to deliver the pain to your Necrons and regain the reputation of how powerful the greater good still is, despite the nerfs. mwahaha

Ok, you're on! Prepare to feel the wrath of my living robots!

PM sent! Space mummies dont scare my blue bad boys!

http://www.moddb.com/groups/warhammer-40k-fans-group/images/problem-astartes

(Im well aware that Necrons arent Astares, so don't hate)