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Yeah, so not being super familiar with Dark Eldar and the whole Webway portal thing. How does this even work?

Previously you had units coming in from reserve in the movement phase.

The webway portal is pretty clear that it gives no gaks about how the unit comes in, Conjured Daemons specifically arrive VIA Deepstrike and Webway Portal states that they can treat it as moving on from the board edge.

So now what happens? Do they just sit there at the portal? Do they get a full movement? What happens?

Does anyone have a clue ?

Conjured Demons come in via deep strike, thus they cannot use the webway portal.


Perhaps if they deep struck, suffered a misshap, were not destroyed but put into ongoing reserves then they could enter via the webway.

Actually thats not entirely accurate.

I'll go ahead and post the relevant entries.

From the rulebook

When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

From the Dark Eldar Codex

...... From then on any units arriving from reserve may move onto the board from the portal markers edge instead of entering as normal ( it does not matter whether these units were intending to deepstrike, outflank, simply move on from their own table edge, and so on)

So yeah it kind of works and gives you permission. How it works in a completely different story. Unless I've copied and pasted the wrong part of that entry or a older version of the book.

That ending and so on.. is really important as it's literally saying " It does not matter how they are coming in from reserve".

The Daemon Summoning rules clearly state they are treated as coming in from reserves for ALL rules purposes. Now the problem is though that even though I think it does work. I think it's a "break". Meaning I can't think of any other situation that a unit that was in Reserve can actually arrive during any other phase other than movement.

Necrons have a few things like the Bodyguard? the Deathmarks. Can't think of anyone else.

They aren't actually in reserves, the are just treated as such so can't assault the turn they arrive.

 CrownAxe wrote:
They aren't actually in reserves, the are just treated as such so can't assault the turn they arrive.

Well, yeah, but when the entry says treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes the difference isn't one that really matters for RAW purposes. Not that that solves anything about the topic at hand mind you...

Well yeah, but can they use it is my question.

Do they get the movement, do they stand there, does it work, does the webway portal have to be within 12 inches of the Caster.

This came up in another thread cause depending if it works how it works If you get possession then you can instead Glide onto the board.

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
They aren't actually in reserves, the are just treated as such so can't assault the turn they arrive.

Well, yeah, but when the entry says treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes the difference isn't one that really matters for RAW purposes. Not that that solves anything about the topic at hand mind you...

Actually it does as the first underlined section from Codex Dark Eldar would not apply to Daemons. Therefore they would follow their own rules.

No one is arguing that they'd be able to charge.

I'm wondering if it even works.

It really does seem to work someway or it's a "break" and unresolved.

Hollismason wrote:
From the Dark Eldar Codex

...... From then on any units arriving from reserve may move onto the board from the portal markers edge instead of entering as normal ( it does not matter whether these units were intending to deepstrike, outflank, simply move on from their own table edge, and so on)

Are they arriving from reserve? Do summoned Daemons stop and go into reserve before coming onto the table? If not, then they can't use the portal.

When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.

Please quote a rule that says arriving using the deep strike rule means that the unit was in reserve.

I just did...

Conjured Unit

When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range; the new unit is under your control and is treated as having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes.



Dark Eldar Web Portal

From then on any units arriving from reserve may move onto the board from the portal markers edge instead of entering as normal ( it does not matter whether these units were intending to deepstrike, outflank, simply move on from their own table edge, and so on)

No, you didn't. Nothing you quoted says that they were in reserve. Treated as having arrived from reserve is not the same as was in reserve.

Um... I just. O_o. I literally do not understand what you are talking about, like at all.

The webway portal is essentially just another table edge for DE. So anything coming in from reserves can use it.

However, the conjuration rule has an additional requirement: deep striking. Regardless of whether the conjured unit is treated as if it's coming from reserves or not, they are required to deep strike.

Walking on is not the same as deep striking.

Dark Eldar Web Portal

From then on any units arriving from reserve may move onto the board from the portal markers edge instead of entering as normal ( it does not matter whether these units were intending to deepstrike, outflank, simply move on from their own table edge, and so on)


????

Hollismason, until the unit deep strikes on the table it does not exist as a unit. As such, it is never in reserves prior to the Deep Strike, it just is treated as having come from reserves after arrival. Since it was never in Reserve (otherwise yuo would have had to decalre it at the start of the game), it cannot use the Web Way Portal.

Now, if the unit Mishaps, and is placed in Ongoing reserves, then you could theoretically walk the summoned unit on.

Hollismason wrote:
Dark Eldar Web Portal

From then on any units arriving from reserve may move onto the board from the portal markers edge instead of entering as normal ( it does not matter whether these units were intending to deepstrike, outflank, simply move on from their own table edge, and so on)


????

I would say no, as they are required to arrive via deep strike. Using the webway portal would mean they didn't follow the rules for placing summoned daemons.

 Happyjew wrote:
Hollismason, until the unit deep strikes on the table it does not exist as a unit. As such, it is never in reserves prior to the Deep Strike, it just is treated as having come from reserves after arrival. Since it was never in Reserve (otherwise yuo would have had to decalre it at the start of the game), it cannot use the Web Way Portal.

Now, if the unit Mishaps, and is placed in Ongoing reserves, then you could theoretically walk the summoned unit on.

This is not Schrodingers unit. I'm sorry it clearly states that the unit arrives via Deep Strike and arrives via coming in from reserves for all rules purposes. The Webway portal CLEARLY states that it doesn't matter how that unit arrives from reserve. There is no "nomination" of a unit that you are trying to imply. I'm sorry this is not true.

Webway portal does not say " Nominate a unit in Reserve", it just says simply " arrives from reserve".

When a unit that is actually in Reserves (or Deep Strike Reserves) and becomes available, they may walk on the board treating the portal as a board edge (as opposed to walking on a real board edge or arriving by Deep Strike).

When conjured daemons arrive, they arrive via Deep Strike (this is specific). After that, they are treated as "having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes." Not "As arriving." The tense is important here. If it actually said arriving, then they would indeed be eligible to use the Webway Portal. Instead, they are treated as "having arrived." Since their arrival has already occurred, they may not choose to use the portal. The only thing being treated as "having arrived" does is serve to trigger conditional effects, like being unable to charge. If they suffer a mishap, however, and wind up in Ongoing Reserves, they they actually WILL arrive from Reserves the next turn, and would be eligible to use the portal.

BUT...they can't.

Because they are daemons. And the Webway Portal is a piece of wargear. A piece of wargear with a specific effect, and only units that are Battle Brothers with the bearer (or from his same codex) may benefit from it. The allied relationship between daemons and Dark Eldar prohibit the daemons (no matter how they arrive on the board) from using friendly equipment.

 Jimsolo wrote:
When a unit that is actually in Reserves (or Deep Strike Reserves) and becomes available, they may walk on the board treating the portal as a board edge (as opposed to walking on a real board edge or arriving by Deep Strike).

When conjured daemons arrive, they arrive via Deep Strike (this is specific). After that, they are treated as "having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes." Not "As arriving." The tense is important here. If it actually said arriving, then they would indeed be eligible to use the Webway Portal. Instead, they are treated as "having arrived." Since their arrival has already occurred, they may not choose to use the portal. The only thing being treated as "having arrived" does is serve to trigger conditional effects, like being unable to charge. If they suffer a mishap, however, and wind up in Ongoing Reserves, they they actually WILL arrive from Reserves the next turn, and would be eligible to use the portal.

BUT...they can't.

Because they are daemons. And the Webway Portal is a piece of wargear. A piece of wargear with a specific effect, and only units that are Battle Brothers with the bearer (or from his same codex) may benefit from it. The allied relationship between daemons and Dark Eldar prohibit the daemons (no matter how they arrive on the board) from using friendly equipment.

I must be missing the bit about only battle brothers being able to use it. The codex just says "any of your units"
I agree summoned daemons cannot use it the turn they are summoned, but I don't see a reason they couldn't on a later turn later (if they mishaped etc.) Same goes for all allied units that don't require a specific deployment. (No webwaying in Drop Pods.)

 Jimsolo wrote:
When a unit that is actually in Reserves (or Deep Strike Reserves) and becomes available, they may walk on the board treating the portal as a board edge (as opposed to walking on a real board edge or arriving by Deep Strike).

When conjured daemons arrive, they arrive via Deep Strike (this is specific). After that, they are treated as "having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes." Not "As arriving." The tense is important here. If it actually said arriving, then they would indeed be eligible to use the Webway Portal. Instead, they are treated as "having arrived." Since their arrival has already occurred, they may not choose to use the portal. The only thing being treated as "having arrived" does is serve to trigger conditional effects, like being unable to charge. If they suffer a mishap, however, and wind up in Ongoing Reserves, they they actually WILL arrive from Reserves the next turn, and would be eligible to use the portal.

BUT...they can't.

Because they are daemons. And the Webway Portal is a piece of wargear. A piece of wargear with a specific effect, and only units that are Battle Brothers with the bearer (or from his same codex) may benefit from it. The allied relationship between daemons and Dark Eldar prohibit the daemons (no matter how they arrive on the board) from using friendly equipment.

Yeah that's not how the syntax of that works. The Webway portal allows any type of coming in or arriving from reserve. Hence the end of it saying and so on..

That's open ended.

The Spell is Resolved.

The Unit Arrives Via Deep Strike while it is Arriving via Deepstrike..

You elect to have them instead use the webway portal.

We know that the unit arrives from reserve because we know that it is treated as if it arrived from reserves.. while it is Deep Striking we can state that it is Arriving. Your trying to argue syntax but that just does work in this case for the reasons I've stated.


Now if we follow your logic chain, Intercept would not work on Conjured units. Neither would any rule that affects units Arriving from reserve.

Here are some examples,

I’ve Been Expecting You: If an enemy unit arrives from reserves within 12" of Coteaz
and within his line of sight, Coteaz and his unit can immediately make an out-of-
sequence shooting attack against it. There is no limit on how many times the ability can
be used in a turn.


By your logic this would not work as the spell has already resolved and the unit has arrived and this states arrives.

You are trying to use a syntax argument or grammatical argument with a verb. That doesn't work in order for something to have arrived, it has to at some point arrive or be arriving.

Bob arrived at the saloon. <- This can't happen if.
Bob is arriving at the saloon. <- This doesn't happen.

If you need me to break it down further I can get into present , past and tense of a verb ,but I'd rather not give a English Lesson.

 erick99 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
When a unit that is actually in Reserves (or Deep Strike Reserves) and becomes available, they may walk on the board treating the portal as a board edge (as opposed to walking on a real board edge or arriving by Deep Strike).

When conjured daemons arrive, they arrive via Deep Strike (this is specific). After that, they are treated as "having arrived from Reserves for all rules purposes." Not "As arriving." The tense is important here. If it actually said arriving, then they would indeed be eligible to use the Webway Portal. Instead, they are treated as "having arrived." Since their arrival has already occurred, they may not choose to use the portal. The only thing being treated as "having arrived" does is serve to trigger conditional effects, like being unable to charge. If they suffer a mishap, however, and wind up in Ongoing Reserves, they they actually WILL arrive from Reserves the next turn, and would be eligible to use the portal.

BUT...they can't.

Because they are daemons. And the Webway Portal is a piece of wargear. A piece of wargear with a specific effect, and only units that are Battle Brothers with the bearer (or from his same codex) may benefit from it. The allied relationship between daemons and Dark Eldar prohibit the daemons (no matter how they arrive on the board) from using friendly equipment.

I must be missing the bit about only battle brothers being able to use it. The codex just says "any of your units"
I agree summoned daemons cannot use it the turn they are summoned, but I don't see a reason they couldn't on a later turn later (if they mishaped etc.) Same goes for all allied units that don't require a specific deployment. (No webwaying in Drop Pods.)

I agree. However, the BRB makes it clear that the Daemons are considered 'enemies' to the Dark Eldar for the purposes of special rules and abilities. And enemy units may not use the Webway portal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:

The Unit Arrives Via Deep Strike while it is Arriving via Deepstrike..

This is the part that you're tripping up on. The conjured daemons are indeed arriving from Deep Strike. But they are not arriving from Reserves. AFTER arriving, they will subsequently be treated as having arrived from Reserves, but during the arrival they are not.

Please see my finished statement , I wanted to give specific examples thanks as to why you are wrong.

 Jimsolo wrote:

I agree. However, the BRB makes it clear that the Daemons are considered 'enemies' to the Dark Eldar for the purposes of special rules and abilities. And enemy units may not use the Webway portal.

Where in the brb, I'm missing it (it's late.)
And the codex say any of your units, not any friendly units.

Yeah that statements just not true.

 erick99 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:

I agree. However, the BRB makes it clear that the Daemons are considered 'enemies' to the Dark Eldar for the purposes of special rules and abilities. And enemy units may not use the Webway portal.

Where in the brb, I'm missing it (it's late.)
And the codex say any of your units, not any friendly units.

Although I don't think it was intended, the language in the codex seems pretty clear, and is probably the more specific rule in this case. I don't think the Webway Portal cares if an enemy unit comes through it, it just requires that it is your unit.

Yea it doesn't care as long as it is "your" unit.

Hollismason, the rule you quoted before doesn't say to treat the unit as being in reserve when they are arriving. It says to treat them as having been in reserve after they have arrived.

So to highjack this example:

Hollismason wrote:
Bob arrived at the saloon. <- This can't happen if.
Bob is arriving at the saloon. <- This doesn't happen.

What is actually happening is the following:

Those who arrive at the saloon on a horse can use the front door. Those who arrive at the saloon on a mule have to use the back.

A mule-rider wearing a yellow hat seated in the saloon is counted as having arrived by horse.

The guy in the yellow hat, at the time he arrives is on a mule. So he has to use the back door. Once he is seated inside he counts as having arrived by horse... but that doesn't let him fold space-time and retroactively walk in the front door after he is already inside.


This is the same situation. Daemons have to arrive by Deep Strike. A unit arriving from Reserve can use the WWP... but the Daemons don't count as being in reserve. They just count as having been in reserve after they have arrived. By the time that kicks in, they're already on the table.