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Haven't seen this discussed on here, so here it is:

http://news.sky.com/story/1276584/seattle-campus-shooter-caught-by-student

Police say a student disarmed a Seattle campus gunman as he paused to reload after shooting four people, one of them fatally.

The attacker, armed with shotgun and a knife, shot three students at Seattle Pacific University on Thursday afternoon.

A student who was on duty as a building monitor, 22-year-old Jon Meis, used pepper spray to tackle the suspect as he tried to insert more rounds into his shotgun.

Other students helped subdue the gunman in the foyer of Otto Miller Hall until police arrived.

Mr Meis, who is being hailed as a hero, was not injured in the attack. The electrical engineering student is reportedly planning to marry his girlfriend later this month.

Several students were taken to the hospital with gunshot wounds. One, a 19-year-old man, died a short time later.

A 20-year-old woman was in a critical condition after surgery. Another man was said to be in a "satisfactory" condition.

The suspect held by police was named as 26-year-old Aaron Ybarra - he was not a student at the university.

A former gym janitor, Ybarra had recently taken a new job at a store, packing bags and cleaning, a friend told the Seattle Times.

Police said the suspect, who was due in court on Friday, had been admitted to hospital twice in recent years for mental health evaluations.

Local channel KIRO TV cites unnamed police sources as saying that Ybarra was obsessed with the 1999 Columbine shootings and had travelled to the site in Colorado.

Thursday's shooting came a week before the end of the academic year.

Seattle Mayor Ed Murray said: "Once again, the epidemic of gun violence has come to Seattle, the epidemic of gun violence that's haunting this nation."

People packed into the First Free Methodist Church on campus for a service in the aftermath of the shooting.

Dozens who could not get into the packed church gathered on a lawn nearby and formed their own groups as the sun set.

One student told local television he heard a loud bang from a nearby classroom, which his teacher initially thought was a science experiment.

As they were subsequently escorted out by police, he said: "I just saw piles of blood on the ground, just scattered throughout the lobby.

"And I actually stepped in a puddle ... I saw someone was on the ground. Someone was on top of them, their hands behind their head."

Around 4,000 students attend the Christian university, which is about 10 minutes from downtown Seattle.

Friday's classes and other activities were cancelled.

If only that student have had a gun, he could have killed the guy instead. Really, we need more guns!

I did some graduate work at that school. In that same building to boot.

 curran12 wrote:
I did some graduate work at that school. In that same building to boot.

I read your signature as part of your post, and now I can't stop laughing.

Anyway, good that someone managed to stop this guy.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If only that student have had a gun, he could have killed the guy instead. Really, we need more guns!

Really, he got extremely lucky that he was able to take him down. There is a very tiny window if a gun is being reloaded.

Yes, a gun would have served him better. Fortunately, it wasn't necessary this time. Props to him for doing it. He could have easily just pissed the guy off more and gotten killed for it.

Is it just me or is the rate of mass shootings/attempted mass shootings skyrocketing?

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, a gun would have served him better.

But when did a gun stop such kind of massacre for the last time?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, a gun would have served him better.

But when did a gun stop such kind of massacre for the last time?

Guns stop almost all massacres in the end. The problem is killing/disarming the perpetrator quickly.

Also, I suspect that a person with a gun stopping a massacre isn't really as important a news story (in America), so we wouldn't hear about it as much.

 -Shrike- wrote:
Guns stop almost all massacres in the end.

Okay, let me rephrase. When was the last time a privately-owned gun stopped a massacre. Because yeah, police forces with guns stop massacres. That is part of their job.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:
Guns stop almost all massacres in the end.

Okay, let me rephrase. When was the last time a privately-owned gun stopped a massacre. Because yeah, police forces with guns stop massacres. That is part of their job.

Not living in America or paying attention to American new channels, I'm as clueless about this as you are. However, as I said, it probably isn't an important news story in America, so I'm not sure many of the Americans on here could answer the question.

Yeah, it is like car crash to them. They do not care to report individual mass shooting anymore, they just report the annual number of casualties now.
[/troll]

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:
Guns stop almost all massacres in the end.

Okay, let me rephrase. When was the last time a privately-owned gun stopped a massacre. Because yeah, police forces with guns stop massacres. That is part of their job.

so you are ignorant of these things?

SHOCKING!

I am truly shocked,

look at this face,

its my shocked face!



A simple search would show plenty of shootings have been prevented, stopped, ect by privately armed guns in a citizens hands.

see below for a very, VERY small sample size.



" Mass Killings Stopped by Armed Citizens

There are several documented cases where armed citizens have stopped mass attacks by gunmen. Let me list a few: The Pearl, Mississippi school shooting was stopped by the vice principal Joel Myrick with a Colt .45, The Appalachian School shooting was stopped by two students with handguns. Both of the above incidents were stopped by the armed citizens threatening the shooter without firing.
Pearl High School Link

Appalachian Law School Link

Plans to slay everyone in the Muskegon, Michigan, store and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their "gnawing hunger for crack cocaine" fell apart for a band of would-be killers after one of their victims fought back.
Muskegon Shooting Link

The mass church shooting in Colorado Springs was stopped by the shooter being shot by a church member with a CCW permit.
New Life Church Link

The Santa Clara gunshop shooting in 1999 was stopped by an armed citizen after the shooter declared that he was going to kill everyone. Police found a list of intended victims in his car. Only the perpetrator, Richard Gable Stevens was shot.
Santa Clara Gunshop Link

The December, 1991, Aniston, Alabama defense where a CCW holder stopped armed robbers who were herding employees, customers, and his wife into a cooler. He shot both robbers, killing one.
Aniston Shoney's Shooting Link

July 13, 2009, in Virginia at the Golden Food Market: The gunman tried to shoot several people, was stopped by a CCW carrier.
Golden Food Market Shooting Link

Just recently, in Early Texas, armed citizen Vic Stacy shot and stopped a deranged man who had just murdered two neighbors and was firing at police with a rifle. Stacy made a very long shot with his revolver, three times as far as the perpetrator was from the police officer, who had an AR-15 type rifle.
Early Texas Peach House Shooting Link

Updated link to Peach House Shooting one Year Later

That sounds like a very good story... but it never made the national news.
I wonder who made the decision to spike that story.
Of course, when a mass shooting is stopped by an armed citizen, there are not as many victims. This leads to the charge that it would not really have been a “mass shooting”.

I have added this incident at the request of a reader:
Abraham Dickman had a history of anger against employees of the AT&T store in New York Mills, New York. On May 27th, 2010, he walked into the store with a .357 and a list of six employees. He shot the first employee, but was stopped from further attacks when Donald J. Moore, an off duty police officer who was allowed to carry his own handgun when not on duty, drew and fired his .40 caliber, killing Mr. Dickman before he could fire any more shots.
AT&T store Link

Here is another likely candidate.
College Park, GA, May 4, 2009.
Two gunman entered a party and ordered the men separated from the women. Then they started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.
When one of the assailants prepared to rape a girl, a student was able to access a handgun and engage the two attackers in a firefight, driving one off and killing the other before the thug could rape his girlfriend.
“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.
College Park Link

Another off duty police officer stopped the Trolley Square shooting with his personal handgun. He stopped the killing and contained the shooter until police reinforcements arrived and ended the situation.
Trolley Square Shooting Link

Winnemucca NV shooting, 25 May, 2008
The shooter, Ernesto Villagomez, entered the Players Bar and Grill and killed two people. He reloaded and was continuing to shoot when a citizen with a concealed carry permit shot him and stopped the killing.
Winnemuca Shooting Link

Parker Middle School Dance Shooting
14 Year old Andrew Jerome Wurst Killed one person and wounded three others when he was confronted by James Strand who subdued Wurst with a shotgun and held him until police arrived.
Parker Middle School Dance Shooting Link

Destiny Christian Center Shooting, April 24, 2012
Kiarron Parker rammed his car into another in the church parking lot, got out and attempted to kill multiple church members. He was only able to kill one before a member of the congregation, the nephew of the lady killed, and an off duty police officer, drew his handgun and shot Parker, stopping the killing.
Destiny Christian Center Shooting Link

Tyler Courthouse shooting, 2005 While police officers were involved in this shooting before and after Mark Alan Wilson intervened, no more people were killed after he shot the shooter, who had body armor, and who was able to return fire and kill the CCW holder, Wilson.
Tyler Courthouse Shooting Link

Clackamas Mall Shooting
I include this story because it is recent and has been getting some interest on the net. This case is not as clear as the others listed. This incident is similar to the more common defensive uses of guns because the mere display of the gun was enough to defuse the situation. We can never know if the shooter decided to commit suicide because he was confronted by Nick Meli, the CCW holder, as the shooter is dead. However, many mass shooters commit suicide when they know that armed resistance is at hand.
Clackamas Concealed Carry Showdown Link


I have added this link as suggested by Doug Kuiphoff in the comments. I do not think that it qualifies as a mass shooting stopped, because the potential shooter says that he did not intend to shoot anyone, but to kidnap some people. Still, it is an interesting story, so here is the link:
SC:Boiling Springs Freewill Baptist Church event

Added, from 2012. Consider that the Plymouth shooting incident happened just three months before Sandy Hook. Mark Ktytor, a concealed carry permit holder, stopped a likely mass killing before it reached enough victims to officially quallify. From the citizensvoice.com:

"Mark Ktytor?" the latest in the stream of reporters asked, trying to put a face to the name of the man investigators credited with preventing a fatal bar shooting last weekend from escalating into a massacre.*


quite literally, dozens more examples, and i am using a very small subset of the whole # as these are moistly just school shootings prevented.... so dont count the thousands of individuals who just protect themselves and prevent *murder* murders, not mass murders.

here are the links for above
http://gunwatch.blogspot.ca/2012/12/mass-killings-stopped-by-armed-citizens.html

and here, just a nother example,

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit


also there is this thing called GOOGLE, if you ask it a question, like how many shootings are stopped by CCW or citizens, you get quite a few results.

 easysauce wrote:
I am truly shocked,

Oh, you are?

 easysauce wrote:
Pearl High School Link

Appalachian Law School Link

I am pretty sure those are not link.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, I just discovered there were way more mass shooting stopped by privately-owned firearm in the U.S. than there was mass shooting attempted in France. That is an interesting fact.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If only that student have had a gun, he could have killed the guy instead. Really, we need more guns!

Exactly. Saves the cost of a trial if a mass-murder is killed in the act.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Is it just me or is the rate of mass shootings/attempted mass shootings skyrocketing?

With the amount of weapons available in the US, especially to young men, it has always amazed me that this stuff doesn't happen every single day. Perhaps it would if the most likely targets didn't already have metal detectors. However one line jumped out at me...

Police said the suspect, who was due in court on Friday, had been admitted to hospital twice in recent years for mental health evaluations

Mental health was an issue that was raised last time we discussed guns and spree killings. While my gut feeling is that spree killings are just an easy way for angry disgruntled people to get international recognition, the mental health link is undeniable.

 Smacks wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
Is it just me or is the rate of mass shootings/attempted mass shootings skyrocketing?

With the amount of weapons available in the US, especially to young men, it has always amazed me that this stuff doesn't happen every single day. Perhaps it would if the most likely targets didn't already have metal detectors.

If you remove gang violence(and things like suicides involving firearms which are inexplicable included in firearm statistics) you'd find that the US isn't much different from the rest of the world in the gun violence department.

Our excess violence is largely caused by having a major organized crime problem, and organized crime isn't responsible for mass killing sprees.

This tread has (as usual) been derailed into a gun debate.
What I find interesting is why a hall monitor was armed with a pepper spray.
It would imply that people who disobey the monitor have a chance of getting pepper sprayed. Is discipline really that much of an issue in American schools?

Daemonhammer wrote:
This tread has (as usual) been derailed into a gun debate.
What I find interesting is why a hall monitor was armed with a pepper spray.
It would imply that people who disobey the monitor have a chance of getting pepper sprayed. Is discipline really that much of an issue in American schools?

I don't know about discipline, but pepper spray is a pretty common thing for just about anyone to carry.

I doubt it was something all the hall monitors carry, it was most likely just a personal item.

Daemonhammer wrote:
This tread has (as usual) been derailed into a gun debate.
What I find interesting is why a hall monitor was armed with a pepper spray.
It would imply that people who disobey the monitor have a chance of getting pepper sprayed. Is discipline really that much of an issue in American schools?

It's a college. The "hall monitor" is likely just a fancy term for a student who essentially watches the hallways when they don't have classes.

As Grey Templar mentioned though, it was probably a personal item that the student thought would be useful for whatever reason.

 Grey Templar wrote:
(and things like suicides involving firearms which are inexplicable included in firearm statistics)

Suicides are included for a good reason: because easy access to an extremely effective method of suicide is a major factor in whether a suicidal person will die or not. Even simple things like putting up a barrier on a popular suicide bridge can make a significant difference, as people who might have given in to a suicidal impulse don't always pursue it later. Having a gun available is like a bridge with no railing, it's very easy to go from "I should die" to being dead without any time to reconsider.

Now, if you want to look at your individual chances of being shot to death it might be reasonable to exclude suicide deaths (as long as you aren't facing a high suicide risk). But when the question is the impact of guns on society as a whole you really do have to consider suicides.

If only he had superpowers, this would have ended sooner

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
(and things like suicides involving firearms which are inexplicable included in firearm statistics)

Suicides are included for a good reason: because easy access to an extremely effective method of suicide is a major factor in whether a suicidal person will die or not. Even simple things like putting up a barrier on a popular suicide bridge can make a significant difference, as people who might have given in to a suicidal impulse don't always pursue it later. Having a gun available is like a bridge with no railing, it's very easy to go from "I should die" to being dead without any time to reconsider.

Now, if you want to look at your individual chances of being shot to death it might be reasonable to exclude suicide deaths (as long as you aren't facing a high suicide risk). But when the question is the impact of guns on society as a whole you really do have to consider suicides.

But still suicides should be their own category. Yes, a gun might make it easier for someone to do it but thats still a totally different thing from what we are presumably using violence statistics for.

Suicide by gun is totally irrelevant to the gun control debate, unless it segways into murder suicide.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Is it just me or is the rate of mass shootings/attempted mass shootings skyrocketing?

Yes, in some respects they are.... And the reason is the media. NUMEROUS psychology/psychiatry experts have said, on air, repeatedly that the more these events get press coverage, the more mentally ill/disturbed people see these acts as a means of getting the attention they're begging for.

 Smacks wrote:
Mental health was an issue that was raised last time we discussed guns and spree killings. While my gut feeling is that spree killings are just an easy way for angry disgruntled people to get international recognition, the mental health link is undeniable.

Sort of. Mental health could be massively improved, and I'm sure it would have a tremendous impact on the rate of spree killings and other homicides.

But mental health is pretty poorly funded and managed in just about every developed country in the world. It's an issue that we're just starting to wake up to, and we're a long way from figuring out what we need to do and how much we need to spend to do it right. But the rest of the world doesn't have gun violence anywhere near US figures. So clearly there's something going on other than just poor mental health in the US.

And I mean this really, really isn't that hard to figure out. As gun people love to point out, a gun is just a tool.... but if we were to mention that some country had 10 times as many hammers per capita, and it so happened they also had about double the rate of nails being hammered in to blocks of wood, well then pretty much everyone over the age of two would figure out fairly quickly that it's got something to do with all those hammers.

But make it something political like guns, and suddenly half the population seems unable to figure out that basic connection. Suddenly people start pretending that making something more common and more available doesn't mean it gets used more often, and that means more homicides. That doesn't mean gun bans or even an increase in gun control, because there's a whole host of actual, real arguments against that. But to start to having real kind of conversation on this it's important to start from a basically honest position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Our excess violence is largely caused by having a major organized crime problem, and organized crime isn't responsible for mass killing sprees.

Nope.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_10_murder_circumstances_by_relationship_2012.xls

In the US in 2012 you had 12,765 homicides. Of that total 871 were gangland killings, or 6.8%, so clearly isn't singularly responsible for your excess violence. If we add in all homicides related to felonies (robberies, drugs etc) then you're up to 2,712 homicides in total. That's less than the number of homicides that come out of arguments, 3,085.

So, to put it simply... just from a straight view of the stats, the US high rate of murder isn't due to organised crime. And that's without even considering that the rest of the developed world has plenty of organised crime as well, without anything like the murder rate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But still suicides should be their own category. Yes, a gun might make it easier for someone to do it but thats still a totally different thing from what we are presumably using violence statistics for.

It isn't that it makes suicide easier, it's the presence of the gun working as a trigger for the suicidal person.

Did you read Ensis Ferrae's post about how mass media coverage is likely a trigger for more spree shootings? It's a good point, and one that mental health experts will comment on repeatedly - reminding people of that event will cause those impulses to happen more often. In the exact same way that media coverage of spree killings will trigger more impulses in potential spree killers and increase the chances of subsequent attacks, having a gun in the house will work as a trigger for people with suicidal tendencies.

 sebster wrote:
But make it something political like guns, and suddenly half the population seems unable to figure out that basic connection. Suddenly people start pretending that making something more common and more available doesn't mean it gets used more often, and that means more homicides. That doesn't mean gun bans or even an increase in gun control, because there's a whole host of actual, real arguments against that. But to start to having real kind of conversation on this it's important to start from a basically honest position.

I agree. I've heard a lot of the arguments against 'gun control' and in a weird way they make sense, but mainly because trying to control guns in the US just seems like an exercise in futility. That doesn't mean that it is a bad idea in principle. The model of a society where everyone needs a gun to protect themselves seems to be dysfunctional at best.

I recall in the topic about Elliot Rodger, there was the argument made that "nothing more could have been done" because he obtained all his guns legally, the police checked him out etc... Yet people seem to be totally overlooking the fact that he was a 22 year old kid (what I would call a kid at least) with three hand guns. To me that's absurd. It's absurd for the same reason that a 8 year old kid with three hand guns is absurd. Or a 22 year old with three nuclear weapons is absurd. You might say I'm crossing over into hyperbole here, but nuclear weapons are probably about as dangerous as guns providing neither go off. That doesn't mean I would trust any random member of the public with one, I barley trust governments with them.

 Smacks wrote:

 sebster wrote:
But make it something political like guns, and suddenly half the population seems unable to figure out that basic connection. Suddenly people start pretending that making something more common and more available doesn't mean it gets used more often, and that means more homicides. That doesn't mean gun bans or even an increase in gun control, because there's a whole host of actual, real arguments against that. But to start to having real kind of conversation on this it's important to start from a basically honest position.

I agree. I've heard a lot of the arguments against 'gun control' and in a weird way they make sense, but mainly because trying to control guns in the US just seems like an exercise in futility. That doesn't mean that it is a bad idea in principle. The model of a society where everyone needs a gun to protect themselves seems to be dysfunctional at best.

I recall in the topic about Elliot Rodger, there was the argument made that "nothing more could have been done" because he obtained all his guns legally, the police checked him out etc... Yet people seem to be totally overlooking the fact that he was a 22 year old kid (what I would call a kid at least) with three hand guns. To me that's absurd. It's absurd for the same reason that a 8 year old kid with three hand guns is absurd. Or a 22 year old with three nuclear weapons is absurd. You might say I'm crossing over into hyperbole here, but nuclear weapons are probably about as dangerous as guns providing neither go off. That doesn't mean I would trust any random member of the public with one with one, I barley trust governments with them.

First....Model Societys require alot more then no guns. Like a police forces that can be there in a nano-second.
And 3 handguns is not insane. What if you are are a Glock mood and not a Desert Eagle mood?

And what if my 3 guns are distributed as follows.

One in the nightstand next to my bed.

One in another location in the house.

And finally I have one that's just for taking to the range for shooting, or its my CCW.


Honestly, 3 hand guns isn't excessive.

Nor would having 3 hand guns and an assortment of longarms.

12 guage for hunting/home defense, .308 for hunting, AR-15 for home defense/shooting at the range/hunting.

Its no more excessive than having 3 40k/Fantasy/Warmachine armies. Except unlike the miniatures the guns have practical uses in addition to having fun.

 Grey Templar wrote:
And what if my 3 guns are distributed as follows.

One in the nightstand next to my bed.

One in another location in the house.

And finally I have one that's just for taking to the range for shooting, or its my CCW.


Honestly, 3 hand guns isn't excessive.

Nor would having 3 hand guns and an assortment of longarms.

12 guage for hunting/home defense, .308 for hunting, AR-15 for home defense/shooting at the range/hunting.

Its no more excessive than having 3 40k/Fantasy/Warmachine armies. Except unlike the miniatures the guns have practical uses in addition to having fun.

Pfft, A dreadnaught in a sock has saved my life many times

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
And what if my 3 guns are distributed as follows.

One in the nightstand next to my bed.

One in another location in the house.

And finally I have one that's just for taking to the range for shooting, or its my CCW.


Honestly, 3 hand guns isn't excessive.

Nor would having 3 hand guns and an assortment of longarms.

12 guage for hunting/home defense, .308 for hunting, AR-15 for home defense/shooting at the range/hunting.

Its no more excessive than having 3 40k/Fantasy/Warmachine armies. Except unlike the miniatures the guns have practical uses in addition to having fun.

Pfft, A dreadnaught in a sock has saved my life many times

Come on, the Dreadsock is obviously attached in place of a bayonet. A compromise between the handiness of a bayonet, the righteousness of the Dreadsock, and the power of a flail.

I have a question....how are we sure the second amendment mean FIREarms? What if they meant swords and daggers? Those are arms aswell.