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Just finished painting up my DP and now I want to field him. From what I have seen in other threads, everyone is hooting and hollering about bring him from the Black Legion supplement.
In 6th edition, I was going to do wings, power armor, and black mace and have him just fly around and smash face, but since the rules change in 7th about swooping and gliding and having to wait a turn before you can charge, I don't see that strategy feasible now. It seems as if its better to just make him a flying psyker, or maybe just jumping psyker.

What are your thoughts??

Zooming Daemon Princes got a nice "Buff" in terms of being able to stay in the air longer, what with taking only 1 grounding test. Most armies aside Eldar aren't going to send thing into assault with your Daemon Prince if they DO manage to Ground him. Tau for instance.

I was just curious as to why you listed Black Legion as the "Go to"? I never liked Black Legion supplement, thought it was rather pointless. Items that make your Immortal Daemon Prince Eternal Warrior? Thanks GW! That should have been rolled right into the original Dex. The Eye of Night is pretty sweet, but expensive as all hell when you start putting things you want onto your Daemon Prince.

If I may suggest, grab a Daemons Detachment. Run your prince as a Prince of Slaanesh, give him 2 Greater Rewards for the Lash of Despair x 2 then fire off 4D6 shots. Make him a Psyker and roll for Biomancy. Iron Arm makes these suckers Str 9 and the Lash also becomes str 9 (As it is str user)

 Solomongrundy wrote:
Just finished painting up my DP and now I want to field him. From what I have seen in other threads, everyone is hooting and hollering about bring him from the Black Legion supplement.
In 6th edition, I was going to do wings, power armor, and black mace and have him just fly around and smash face, but since the rules change in 7th about swooping and gliding and having to wait a turn before you can charge, I don't see that strategy feasible now. It seems as if its better to just make him a flying psyker, or maybe just jumping psyker.

What are your thoughts??

Take a look at the jink and FMC thread. Looks like you can jink even if you don't swoop. Slap on mark of nurgle and Glide in with the 2+ cover save, then go to town.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Solomongrundy wrote:
Just finished painting up my DP and now I want to field him. From what I have seen in other threads, everyone is hooting and hollering about bring him from the Black Legion supplement.
In 6th edition, I was going to do wings, power armor, and black mace and have him just fly around and smash face, but since the rules change in 7th about swooping and gliding and having to wait a turn before you can charge, I don't see that strategy feasible now. It seems as if its better to just make him a flying psyker, or maybe just jumping psyker.

What are your thoughts??

Take a look at the jink and FMC thread. Looks like you can jink even if you don't swoop. Slap on mark of nurgle and Glide in with the 2+ cover save, then go to town.

-Matt

Yes the DoN, wings and the black mace is the new go to for CSM DP. No more flying, just jink and get your 2+ cover save in the open then charge in and swing the mace.

A CSM DP with spell familar and 3 psyker levels is one of the best psykers in the game for summoning daemons, but having to roll on those terrible codex powers weakens them a lot.

GoliothOnline wrote:
Zooming Daemon Princes got a nice "Buff" in terms of being able to stay in the air longer, what with taking only 1 grounding test. Most armies aside Eldar aren't going to send thing into assault with your Daemon Prince if they DO manage to Ground him. Tau for instance.

I was just curious as to why you listed Black Legion as the "Go to"? I never liked Black Legion supplement, thought it was rather pointless. Items that make your Immortal Daemon Prince Eternal Warrior? Thanks GW! That should have been rolled right into the original Dex. The Eye of Night is pretty sweet, but expensive as all hell when you start putting things you want onto your Daemon Prince.

If I may suggest, grab a Daemons Detachment. Run your prince as a Prince of Slaanesh, give him 2 Greater Rewards for the Lash of Despair x 2 then fire off 4D6 shots. Make him a Psyker and roll for Biomancy. Iron Arm makes these suckers Str 9 and the Lash also becomes str 9 (As it is str user)

if you take a look at the rewards table in the daemons codex it says you can only replace one of your rewards for the greater weapon such as the lash, so you are limited to one lash of despair and then another greater reward so only 2D6 hits for one lash.

On another note, overall zooming monstrous creatures did get a buff in survibility, however thy problem is they cannot score or contest an objective while in swooping mode, and once they enter gliding they can't assault for one turn. So you have to think on if you really want a 300+ point model who isn't gaurenteed to get the psychic power you want such as iron arm in this case and who can't contest an objective while swooping. Be'lakor is an exception since he provides a lot of utility. Don't get me wrong that in saying its impossible to use them, I just can't really justify them as much anymore, especially the CSM Daemon prince where I would always take the black mace. Although someone above mentioned a nurgle prince in glide can still jink for a 2+ cover save, unless he gets that iron arm or endurance he really is vulnerable to small arms fire since you no longer need snapshots to hit him on the ground. You could have be'lakor or another model put invisibility on him, but again thats 600+ points for 2 models right.

I like MoN, spell familiar, burning brand, lvl 3 psyker.

This lets you reliably summon daemons wherever you need (rerolls to cast are awesome when you need 3 successes). Lets you toast marine equivellents without landing. Forces enemies to snap shoot at you and you can jink if you need to (although if you stick to ruins you dont need to and so can still use your brand).

The black mace is an option with Gliding but any ignores cover stuff will rapidly end your fun (wave serpents, marker lights etc) and since you cant land and charge I think the shooty/summoner equivalent is better)

Actually I think people forget the new Warlords Chart that allows you to reroll if you are battleforged and being able to get Greater Rewards is super boss.

Here's why:

Choices from Warlords Personal , you get to reroll if BattleForged Trait:
Feel No Pain, It will not Die
Choices from the Greater Rewards
Feel No Pain, Eternal Warrior

Yeah just double up on that with a Daemon Prince or a Greater Daemon.

Your odds of getting Feel No Pain are pretty high.

So yeah, a Daemon Prince running around as Slaanesh or Nurgle w/ that plus Biomancy.

Yes, but if your opponent grounds you, you are allowed to assault your following turn.

I think I am going to try DoN, Wings, Black Mace, Power Armor and see how it goes. Will only glide and Jink when needed to get that 2+ cover save, then hopefully charge in next turn.

 Solomongrundy wrote:
I think I am going to try DoN, Wings, Black Mace, Power Armor and see how it goes. Will only glide and Jink when needed to get that 2+ cover save, then hopefully charge in next turn.

I think this is a good way to use a DP these days.
The dual version, swooping and summoning, is also viable.
It will basically depend on the army you will run.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Solomongrundy wrote:
I think I am going to try DoN, Wings, Black Mace, Power Armor and see how it goes. Will only glide and Jink when needed to get that 2+ cover save, then hopefully charge in next turn.

I think this is a good way to use a DP these days.
The dual version, swooping and summoning, is also viable.
It will basically depend on the army you will run.

Not sure if summoning is a good tactic outside of fullscale deamon factories. A flying psycher prince is quite expencive. It seems like a waste to use such a powerfull model for gaining handfulls of crappy daemons. Your warp charge would do better boosting your troops with invisibility and stuff.
Sure, the occasional summoning is a nice trick, but 10 lesser daemons is nowhere near equal or better than what the warp charge+ monster stats can do for your army in so many other ways.

I might be wrong though, I play daemons and just cant get why peolple are eager to spend so many psycher resources on summoning those weak units, lol!

if you take a look at the rewards table in the daemons codex it says you can only replace one of your rewards for the greater weapon such as the lash, so you are limited to one lash of despair and then another greater reward so only 2D6 hits for one lash.

Holy crap.

I, and I know quite a few other daemon players did not notice it was a single reward. I know a few people, including myself who might end up with a balesword and a greater etherblade for 2 greater rewards.

 gwarsh41 wrote:


if you take a look at the rewards table in the daemons codex it says you can only replace one of your rewards for the greater weapon such as the lash, so you are limited to one lash of despair and then another greater reward so only 2D6 hits for one lash.

Holy crap.

I, and I know quite a few other daemon players did not notice it was a single reward. I know a few people, including myself who might end up with a balesword and a greater etherblade for 2 greater rewards.

Indeed lol I just smacked myself silly for not knowing this lol

What about my DoK, AoBF, Winged, PA'd DP?

Assuming I ever pick up the Khorne Warband again, how has this loadout changed? Obviously the Nurgle mark is better for the DP, especially if he has wings, but what about us CSM Khorne worshippers?

I really just don't want to do any more work to the ol' DP so I'm wondering how he will fare in 7th as he is.

 Solomongrundy wrote:
I think I am going to try DoN, Wings, Black Mace, Power Armor and see how it goes. Will only glide and Jink when needed to get that 2+ cover save, then hopefully charge in next turn.

Coming from a C:SM player, lose the PA. With it, your DP is much more susceptible to grav, which since you aren't swooping means you'll get hit alot. No PA means that grav needs 6s to wound you, and you most likly use the 2+ jink for your saving throws and the 5++ if they throw ignore cover.

darkcloak wrote:
What about my DoK, AoBF, Winged, PA'd DP?

Assuming I ever pick up the Khorne Warband again, how has this loadout changed? Obviously the Nurgle mark is better for the DP, especially if he has wings, but what about us CSM Khorne worshippers?

I really just don't want to do any more work to the ol' DP so I'm wondering how he will fare in 7th as he is.

It's better against vehicles than the DoN Black Mace, but worse against most other things.

Getting knocked down to WS 8 really hurts a DP, making the AoBF pretty bad on a DP.


You could go with DoK, Armor, Black Mace and Wings.

PA is useful vs wave serpents and close combat, and a liability vs grav. Gotta weigh those points up vs your meta.

 Fayric wrote:


Not sure if summoning is a good tactic outside of fullscale deamon factories. A flying psycher prince is quite expencive. It seems like a waste to use such a powerfull model for gaining handfulls of crappy daemons. Your warp charge would do better boosting your troops with invisibility and stuff.
Sure, the occasional summoning is a nice trick, but 10 lesser daemons is nowhere near equal or better than what the warp charge+ monster stats can do for your army in so many other ways.

I might be wrong though, I play daemons and just cant get why peolple are eager to spend so many psycher resources on summoning those weak units, lol!

The summoner daemon prince is all about the tactical objectives

lets assume that your swooping nurgle daemon prince is not going to die for at least 3 turns. He gets to budget bale flamer 2/3 units, vector strike a TEQ or two and summon 300 points worth of daemonettes onto the field at least 2 of which will be summoned so they can run onto a tactical objective. Add to that the fact that the prince can be your warlord (most likely denying slay the warlord ).

its all the tactical versitility that makes him worth it. And if worst comes tk worst he can land onto objectives himself. The worst thing that can happen to him outside of facing 3 skyrays is to perils and fall out of the sky and then get hosed down by bolters.

 ace101 wrote:

 Solomongrundy wrote:
I think I am going to try DoN, Wings, Black Mace, Power Armor and see how it goes. Will only glide and Jink when needed to get that 2+ cover save, then hopefully charge in next turn.

Coming from a C:SM player, lose the PA. With it, your DP is much more susceptible to grav, which since you aren't swooping means you'll get hit alot. No PA means that grav needs 6s to wound you, and you most likly use the 2+ jink for your saving throws and the 5++ if they throw ignore cover.

Only problem with this is that Serpents will roflstomp your prince in one turn of shooting. Relying on a 5++ against D6+1 high S shots is pretty silly when you consider that the range allows them to hit you pretty much anywhere.

CSM isn't too worried about Grav Bikers. We've got Heldrakes to handle them. Serpents on the other hand are a serious concern. You can't just ignore them.

 Exergy wrote:

darkcloak wrote:
What about my DoK, AoBF, Winged, PA'd DP?

Assuming I ever pick up the Khorne Warband again, how has this loadout changed? Obviously the Nurgle mark is better for the DP, especially if he has wings, but what about us CSM Khorne worshippers?

I really just don't want to do any more work to the ol' DP so I'm wondering how he will fare in 7th as he is.

It's better against vehicles than the DoN Black Mace, but worse against most other things.

Getting knocked down to WS 8 really hurts a DP, making the AoBF pretty bad on a DP.


You could go with DoK, Armor, Black Mace and Wings.

Again though, I'm done workin on the guy. No more modelling shenanigans for the DP. He gets the axe or nothing. Honestly I can't see the reason for the Black Mace hard-ons, you have to smash attack with it to get ap2, thus lowering your attacks and if you roll like a wimp for DW then you've gimped yourself to like 3 or 4 attacks. Pass a toughness test? Pfft, too easy for what the DP usually dines on, even T3 models pass that easily enough. The nerf to WS is totally unnoticeable because you'll almost always be hitting on 3s or 4s anyways. I'd much rather go for the Axe and know that whatever squad I charge is going to become red paste.

Besides, I'm wondering what I can do to use the model I have, not looking for opinions on loadouts. I have a loadout, it works, or at least it used to. What I'm wondering is how will this loadout fare with the new rules. Obviously if I was going to build a new DP I'd be doing what everyone here suggests and going DoN for the 2+ cover. Gotta be some fellow Khorne followers out there who are wondering what to do with their DoK flying hammer as well. I know I'm not the only guy to run a DP this way... someone else has to have some experience with this in 7th, or at least some good theories...

first the smash rule gives ap2 to all attacks.

Im a khorne player, and I'm not thrilled with 7th through the eyes of my bloodthirster and aobf prince, the charging rule really hurts. here are some options to use him, one is get invisibility. you either roll for it and pray, or take be'lakor. the second is use landraiders to hide him behind. with the change to damage tables landraiders are very tough right now. battlebrother in some bloodletters to ride inside and red paste things that way.

Just to clarify.

The first bit of the Smash USR gives all melee attacks Ap2. This includes Melee weapons used by the models with the USR Smash, but doesn't affect his Ranged Weapons.

It may not be very competitive but I play mine as a Deamon of Khorne with wings, power armour, and The Axe of Blind Fury. I think he has only been killed in cqc once and that was by the forgeworld Horus, but as long as you can keep him floating from squad to squad, a max 14 strength 8 ap2 attacks on the charge, he is pretty difficult to take down with anything but shooting.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 ace101 wrote:

 Solomongrundy wrote:
I think I am going to try DoN, Wings, Black Mace, Power Armor and see how it goes. Will only glide and Jink when needed to get that 2+ cover save, then hopefully charge in next turn.

Coming from a C:SM player, lose the PA. With it, your DP is much more susceptible to grav, which since you aren't swooping means you'll get hit alot. No PA means that grav needs 6s to wound you, and you most likly use the 2+ jink for your saving throws and the 5++ if they throw ignore cover.

Only problem with this is that Serpents will roflstomp your prince in one turn of shooting. Relying on a 5++ against D6+1 high S shots is pretty silly when you consider that the range allows them to hit you pretty much anywhere.

CSM isn't too worried about Grav Bikers. We've got Heldrakes to handle them. Serpents on the other hand are a serious concern. You can't just ignore them.

I agree. With a 3+ armor you're actually better off against Grav than Plasma weapons. And I generally run Tzeentch princes, and the reroll 1s is such a huge survival boost that I would never run a DP without armor.

Nurgle Prince in glide mode has a 2+ Cover Save if they jink.

GoliothOnline wrote:
Nurgle Prince in glide mode has a 2+ Cover Save if they jink.

Worth it if you bring Black Mace, since you don't have any shooting abilities anyway

2+ cover save on a gliding mace prince does sound good, but I really hate that DoN can't sweep. If my opponent fails the morale test leaving me out in the open, I'd at least like them to be swept rather than leaving bits of squads hanging around that can still score, lock things up, provide cover, and screen other charges.

darkcloak wrote:


Again though, I'm done workin on the guy. No more modelling shenanigans for the DP. He gets the axe or nothing. Honestly I can't see the reason for the Black Mace hard-ons, you have to smash attack with it to get ap2, thus lowering your attacks and if you roll like a wimp for DW then you've gimped yourself to like 3 or 4 attacks.

DP are AP2 no matter what they wield, so the black mace is AP2 all the time on a DP You only need to smash if you want to hit a vehicle, which as I said is where the axe shines

darkcloak wrote:

Pass a toughness test? Pfft, too easy for what the DP usually dines on, even T3 models pass that easily enough.

but it isnt just one test, THEY ALL HAVE TO TEST. So you run in, kill 7 guardmen and then another 15 guardsmen die to the mace. Also it's remove from play, so you put a wound on a guy and then occationally that big T4 T5 hell even T8 nasty rolls a 6 and is flat out gone.

darkcloak wrote:

The nerf to WS is totally unnoticeable because you'll almost always be hitting on 3s or 4s anyways.

It's the change of getting hit by return fire from 4+ to 5+. Or do you like your DP dead?

darkcloak wrote:

I'd much rather go for the Axe and know that whatever squad I charge is going to become red paste.

The mace is better at turning things to paste than the axe. Particularly look at what happens to hordes, where the mace's toughness test will kill half of everyone in combat, and MCs, where you are wounding Wraithknights on 2+ instead of 5+

darkcloak wrote:

Besides, I'm wondering what I can do to use the model I have, not looking for opinions on loadouts.

Thats fine, play what looks cool. But the Axe DP is only better than the mace DP when going against rhinos.

I have actually used the Winged Nurgle Daemon Prince (I don't bother with Armor) combined with Combat Familiar, Spell Familiar and Black Mace. *I do bump him to a ML-3. I combine him with Be'Lakor and between the two of them I manage to destroy most of the opponent's army. I have even run variations with a third Daemon Prince (Winged and Nurgle of course) from the Black Legion so I can bring the Eye of Night. Since both Nurgle FMC will take as much Biomancy as possible the odds on getting Life Leech is pretty good and I tend to use that to heal whichever DP is taking a beating. Between Invisibility and the 2+ Cover save, most of my DPs are still on the board at the end of the game.