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I've been wondering for a year now, that why the Heavy bolter and similar support weaponry of the other factions aren't Pinning. That'd make more sense in fluff-wise, and wouldn't be a dramatic game-changing addition in the long run. It would still make things more interesting and encourage players to field weapons which popularity is little to none.
Heavy bolters, some Grav Platform-mounted weapons, Loota weapons, and so on. Why wouldn't they have a suppressing effect on infantry (counting out Fearless units)?

Any opinions about the matter?

I could see it for heavy bolters. It would give it something of a suppressive fire role.

That said, I disagree with it being on loota guns, they are plenty strong enough as it is, imo. Not broken, but certainly not hurting for a buff. As for 'grav platform mounted weapons' I need more information on which ones you mean.

This sounds very "Dawn of War"ish. This, however, would entice me to have quad heavy bolter havocs in the wall of Martyrs weapon emplacement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chaos Rising wrote:
This sounds very "Dawn of War"ish. This, however, would entice me to have quad heavy bolter havocs in the wall of Martyrs weapon emplacement.

Carrying on from the DOW style would incinerators supprace to? And shruiken cannons and so on and so forth?

 curran12 wrote:
I could see it for heavy bolters. It would give it something of a suppressive fire role.

That said, I disagree with it being on loota guns, they are plenty strong enough as it is, imo. Not broken, but certainly not hurting for a buff. As for 'grav platform mounted weapons' I need more information on which ones you mean.

Well, not probably on Loota guns, but you got my point: weaponry that is meant for a suppressive role.
My knowledge upon Eldar weaponry is limited, but my understanding is, that they also have a rapid fire weapon mounted on a Grav Platform, resembling a heavy machine gun tech of the mankind. I'd see that also Pinning.

 Chaos Rising wrote:
This sounds very "Dawn of War"ish. This, however, would entice me to have quad heavy bolter havocs in the wall of Martyrs weapon emplacement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chaos Rising wrote:
This sounds very "Dawn of War"ish. This, however, would entice me to have quad heavy bolter havocs in the wall of Martyrs weapon emplacement.

Carrying on from the DOW style would incinerators supprace to? And shruiken cannons and so on and so forth?

DoW is a 40K game - as the tabletop is, but in real-time, isn't it?
No suppression for flame weapons, please. That would make things ridiculous.
The Pinning heavy bolters would definetely add more interesting builds to SM lists. I'd personally field a full squad of heavy bolter devastators if they'd have Pinning. Nowadays, they're trash nobody wants.

I've been tossing around the idea of heavy bolsters being heavy 4, but making them pinning would certainly give them a different squad role.

Heavy 4 and/or pinning would make them attractive choices.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Heavy 4 and/or pinning would make them attractive choices.

Heavy 4 seems a bit much.
Maybe Heavy 3 & pinning?

I'm a fan of heavy 4. I love heavy bolters, but I always find them quite underwhelming on the tabletop. I like the idea of them being Pinning.

Pinning would be too easy to have, I think, especially since its remove from barrage weapon, I don't it'd be fitting to give it to what I think is the most avaiable heavy weapon for the Imperium.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Pinning would be too easy to have, I think, especially since its remove from barrage weapon, I don't it'd be fitting to give it to what I think is the most avaiable heavy weapon for the Imperium.

In the game itself, probably, but is not the heavy stubber more common fluffwise?

Yes, but for reasons its never used on the TT, unless you're Krieg or a Renegade.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I'm a fan of heavy 4. I love heavy bolters, but I always find them quite underwhelming on the tabletop. I like the idea of them being Pinning.

The problem with HB is that they are crap on marines and other infantry, really pretty good on Tanks. Imagine a LR with 12 shots instead of 9. Or chimeras with 8 shots instead of 6.

Similarly Shurken cannons are fine on gravtanks, but not so great on guardians.

Heavy bolters, and all other similar weapons just underperform on infantry, but are great on tanks.



So I suggest that Heavy bolters dont take a heavy weapon guy. You can take 1 per 10 models, in addition to a heavy weapon.

So a 10 man Tactical squad can take a special weapon, a heavy weapon, AND a heavy bolter.
So
10 guys, 1 plasmagun, 1 lascannon, and 1 heavy bolter
10 guys 1 meltagun, 1 missile launcher and 1 heavy bolter

Marines would benefit a lot with the ability to combat squad, but tanks would be unchanged.

Exergy, you're right. I was thinking about them on anything but Land Raiders (because, let's face it, Land Raiders aren't exactly known for their firepower) and couldn't think of much of a solution. I like your idea with extra heavy bolter, but what about Devastators/Havocs? I suppose giving them access to additional heavy bolters would work, but I don't know.

Obviously this isn't going to change any time soon, but honestly I'd just prefer if Imperial Guard didn't get heavy bolters, just more multilasers, heavy stubbers, and so on. Also, where are all the Terminator Devastators?

Frozen Ocean wrote:I'd just prefer if Imperial Guard didn't get heavy bolters, just more multilasers, heavy stubbers, and so on. Also, where are all the Terminator Devastators?

but heavy bolters are supposed to be the guard's tool (seriously) for fighting marines. Normal body armor is supposed to protect from ricochets and small arms, but not really machine guns, since that is impractical. The magic of power armor is that it does protect against machine guns: heavy stubbers, shuriken cannons, and big shootas. Since bolt weapons are the power-armored troopers' signature weapons, the bolter versions of machine guns have to work on power armor the way normal machine guns work on normal body armor. the way to "fix" heavy bolters is to make power armor some version of 4+, obviously with other buffs to both power armor and to space marines.

Also, multilasers do not appear available as platform weapons.

"assault terminators" only became different from "terminators" in the army list when third edition made things weird. There is no fluff difference, like tactical and assault squads have different markings but there is just one marking for terminator squads.

How about~ rather than buffing the heavy bolter, have it buff the models using it;

Suppressive Weapon: An infantry model carrying a heavy bolter can traverse the weapon far more precisely than the solid mounting used by vehicles. An infantry model armed with a Heavy Bolter may take a Ballistic Skill test before firing. If successful, the weapon gains the Pinning special rule. If failed, the weapon fires one less shot than normal as the firer mis-aims their suppressive fire.

Why would 1 heavy bolter supress when 10 normal bolters wouldn't, or 20 shurican catapults, or 30 lasguns, etc...

There should be a rule or ability, to fire a weapon in a supressive role, rather than give a few weapons the ability.

As is stands now most pinning is explained easily, as it's mostly barrage or sniper fire you arn't sure where it's coming from so your stuck scrambling from cover until the fire subsides.

Hm, how about "any unit taking six or more wounds from shooting must make a pinning test"?

All you need to do is make the heavy bolter a choice for both the special slot and the heavy slot on tac squads.
3 S5 shots isn't enough of a boost, but 6 S5 shots is. It would let you run tac squads like baby devistators; or even combat squad leaving the covering fire behind as the other half of the squad (with p-fist sarg) charges forward in the rhino.

I used to like my IG heavy weapon teams with heavy bolters.
Cheap, and decent firepower. Not good enough to get targeted early, and able to contribute.

IMO, where the heavy bolter is lacking isn't with it's firepower, but rather the lack of 4+ save targets.
You're paying for the AP4, but it seems like 40K is a 2+/3+/5+ world. I generally don't want to get into a shootout with Fire Warriors, Necron Warriors or Scouts. All seem to be better dealt with in combat.
As such, the heavy bolter is AP expensive, and not in a good way.

I'd wouldn't mind to see it Heavy 4 and AP5.

-Matt

 dayve110 wrote:
Why would 1 heavy bolter supress when 10 normal bolters wouldn't, or 20 shurican catapults, or 30 lasguns, etc...

There should be a rule or ability, to fire a weapon in a supressive role, rather than give a few weapons the ability.

As is stands now most pinning is explained easily, as it's mostly barrage or sniper fire you arn't sure where it's coming from so your stuck scrambling from cover until the fire subsides.

except barrage no longer pins in 7th
I'm not always the biggest on fluff, but I would rather see a pinning nerf and have it returned to barrage weapons, if a mortar can't pin then it is not really a mortar