Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know Stormravens are good. And on paper they're arguably a better buy than land raiders. But I am already low on numbers in order to make it effective. Even more so considering what other armies can take at this points range, so I am keen for EVERYHTING to start on the board. At least give me a fighting chance. A Stormraven not coming in until turn four might not be a regular occurance. But it would probably cost me the game...

Yea thats the gamble with ravens, they're arguably more survivable than the raiders and more firepower, but you take a chance on those reserve rolls

Hey everyone!!

So Stormravens .. Yeah they are good .. Yeah if they explode everything inside probably dies .. it's also true that a bad reserve roll forces you to play with 1/3 of your army in reserve for most of the game's duration.. All the above are good points . How I cope with them :

1st : I kit mine with TL Multi-Melta +TL Assault cannon + Hurricane Bolters + Psyblts for 255 points ..This gives me enough fire power to deal with everything , 4str 7 (Rending with 6s) + 6-12 str 5 shots + AT with machine spirit another unit-vehicle .. Don't forget Mindstrike missiles vs Psyckers!!

I also transport my " Waltz-Mortis" (as I like to call it) unit which consists of 1x Techmarine w/ Power Sword + Rad + Psychotroke + Blind Grenades (115 points) + 4x Crusaders w/ Power axes + 6x DCA w/ Power Sword + Power Axe + 1x Psycker (used to be 7x DCA but the Psycker is soooo sweet know) (160 points)

This unit is a total killer !! 3++ with crusaders , 2+ with Techmarine to tank , -1 T in combination with str 6 swords at init 6 or str 7 axes in init 1 (but AP2) , 4+ cover if they assault from ruins (in case crusaders are dead from extremely shooty armies) , Psychotroke FUN and re-roll to hit with Divination from Psycker !! If you throw this unit in TEQ they 'll have to deal with 32 AP 2 atks + 3 AP 1 (Servo arms) with re-rolls to hit and Instant Death ...

The other sweet think about this unit is that everyone except the techmarine and the psycker MIGHT survive a crash as they all have invu save ..

2nd : OK this unit comes at 530 points with the Raven so a bad reserve roll will corner you in any game but even so considering you 'll run Coteaz , when they 'll come fourth round they can assault an OS objective to win/contest you some VPs (this unit with Coteaz has OS)

So , all in all this strategy depends on personal taste and of course your opponents armies .. I personally run this unit in 1.5k points with success as the rest of my army consists of a lot Anti Armor (Vindicare in bolstered ruin with Techmarine) + 2x Psyfledreads + Coteaz with more crusaders and Plasma Cannon Servitors + Henchmen + PAGKs + Rhinos/RBs and I try to focus on getting and camping objectives ...

Hope that helps a bit !!

It's a really interesting combo. I'm just surprised it works so well at this points level. That's a third of your army in reserve. Which to me, is far too much. It's too much of a gamble. And I am trying to about the usual Coteaz and henchmen spam....

Here is the list I use in 2k points games (And at this point I like to thank Elric Greywolf for his great input ) :

HQ
Coteaz - 100

TROOPS
Warband, 3xPlasma Servitors, 3x Plasma Warriors, 4x Crusaders - 162
Warband, 6xDCA, 4xCrusaders, Psyker -160
Warband, 3xBolter Warriors, Psyker, Razor (HB, Psybolts) - 75
Warband, 2xBolter Warriors, Psyker, Razor (HB, Psybolts) - 70
GKSS, 10x, Psycans, Psybolts, Rhino - 280
GKSS, 10x, Psycans, Psybolts, Rhino - 280

ELITE
Techmarine, Rad, Psycho, Blind , Servo Skull - 118
Vindicare - 145

FAST
Stormraven - 205

HEAVY
Psyfleman - 135
Psyfleman - 135
Psyfleman - 135

In 1.5k points I remove the 2x PAGKs and add Hurricane Bolters + Psybolts to my Raven + another 2 Bolter Warriors .. Enough Warp Charges for what is important every round + good objective camping until mini deathstar comes from above saving the day .. It's also kind of fluffy IMO .. Also I don't think this as Henchmen Spam ..Once again this is my playstyle and maybe won't fit your tastes.

I hope this list gives you the insight you need to build your list

GK at 1500
Cotaez
Inquisitor - psyker, 3 skulls
rhino, two plasma cannon servitors, psyker
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
dreadknight - teleporter, sword, incinerator
dreadknight - teleporter, sword, incinerator
Knight Errant
(needs to drop 4 points, but think about that for 1500 vs what you are putting on the table.)

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
GK at 1500
Cotaez
Inquisitor - psyker, 3 skulls
rhino, two plasma cannon servitors, psyker
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
dreadknight - teleporter, sword, incinerator
dreadknight - teleporter, sword, incinerator
Knight Errant
(needs to drop 4 points, but think about that for 1500 vs what you are putting on the table.)

I know what you're saying. It would make light work of my list. But my god its dull. I would hate to field it.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
GK at 1500
Cotaez
Inquisitor - psyker, 3 skulls
rhino, two plasma cannon servitors, psyker
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
2 henchmen, 1 psyker, psyback
dreadknight - teleporter, sword, incinerator
dreadknight - teleporter, sword, incinerator
Knight Errant
(needs to drop 4 points, but think about that for 1500 vs what you are putting on the table.)

I know what you're saying. It would make light work of my list. But my god its dull. I would hate to field it.

I've noticed that 2 acolytes, psyker, psyback is becoming flavour of the month. Problem is, I don't think it's actually that effective in a Maelstrom game and it is definitely not effective in an Eternal war game. It is not difficult to open a psyback and then you are left with a unit which will die to a gentle breeze.

Also, what exactly does everyone plan to do with these warp charges? You can't manifest any psychic power from inside a psyback, because it doesn't have a firing point. In the above list, all these warp charges are going to do is give the DK +1 to its invul save (or give the psyback a 6+invul). You could definitely get a witchfire power off (assuming that Coteaz and the Inquisitor are in the Rhino, (can the servitors use the firepoint if it was used by coteaz and crew in the psychic phase?) but given that the range of most of them is less than 18" you'll be pushing to do anything useful in T1. And you'll be dead in T2, because I can't think of a single army that would be unable to open the rhino and kill the entire T3 squad (netting warlord) in 2 turns.

With the exception of the Knight and the DK, the above list seems to take no advantage of the things that GK do well, (Psycannons, DS, Halberds, Grand Strategy) and maximises the psyker effect which is less useful in 7th, more unreliable and, in the above list, seems to be largely wasted.

I definitely agree that the acolyte psyker combo is cheap, provides an OS DT and allows you to stack on WC. But you have to use it intelligently. If you haven't got cleansing flame on purifiers, or the ability to actually see to use Vortex, having all these extremely squishy units to provide WC is basically so Coteaz can cast one of his two (three) powers. Huh.

@Khaine, I think your list is more resilient than the above. Thinking a bit more, a standard LR with lascannons may give you more flexibility as you are moving up the table?

I am torn between which land raider to take. The thing is, the crusader makes better use of Psybolt, and does add a little bit of anti infantry which I'm lacking slightly. Especially if I'm relying on the DK's to mop up armour.....

And I'm with you about the above list. It's spamming cheap and actually relatively poor units. It'd probably still beat mine, but would get annihilated against an experienced tournament player...

OK, I think I will go with the crusader pattern LR. It's punch isn't as hard, but he has weight of fire. Won't help me massively against my tau friend, but offers more flexibility in a tournament setting....

I think your choice is between the crusader and the standard one. I can see having lascannons would be helpful (although you lose the assault cannons in exchange for HB).

But definitely, Crusader is the one to pick to get value from psybolts and definitely gives more flexibility.

Such a shame we can't get it as a DT.

If it helps (at all) if the LRC makes it to the tau lines, you chose the wrong one If it doesn't you're a genius!

Haha. Even with its assault launchers?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I know Stormravens are good. And on paper they're arguably a better buy than land raiders. But I am already low on numbers in order to make it effective. Even more so considering what other armies can take at this points range, so I am keen for EVERYHTING to start on the board. At least give me a fighting chance. A Stormraven not coming in until turn four might not be a regular occurance. But it would probably cost me the game...

You've already received the best advice you will get, and are moving in the right direction.

To beat your opponent in a CC oriented army (like GK) you need to overwhelm your opponents ability to kill squads before they reach HtH.

This means any staggering or delay in arrival of forces will result in defeat. GK units are expensive, and Tau have a lot of firepower. The margin of error is non-existent.

Teleporting Dreadknights, Great! Teleporting Interceptors, Great! ANYTHING held in reserve - very bad news. This isn't the case for other armies, or in higher point matches, but putting any GK unit in a Stormraven is 300+ pts (20% of your list).

You goal should be to write a list where everything becomes a target priority simultaneously.

A unit a Terminators Guaranteed to arrive on T1 is great (especially if it doesn't scatter) - but you need to pair it with other units that can get in te opponents backfield on T1 as well. A squad of Teleporting Interceptions, a teleporting Dreadknight, and some Terminators deep striking wouldn't be a bad way to go.

Running a Land Raider could work too, as it would apply pressure as well.

Two squads of Interceptors, a Dreadknight and Terminators DSing T1 would probably be best. It's Tau, so if you can get into HtH in a meaningful way, you should be able to lock down a win.

Just my $0.02

Yeah thanks bud. I think I'm there now pretty much with the latest list. I'll have two dreadknights and a land raider hammering forward on turn one with two psybacks left backfield. I did contemplate going unbound and replacing all the strikes and grand master for interceptors just to really upset him. But I'm a big fan of objective secured teleporting dreadknights.....

Don't go unbound. Objective secured is way too important and GK simply are too expensive to compensate for the loss of it - you literally can't get enough firepower for the points.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I know, I just can't really fit him in....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, I perhaps have a slightly better list....

Let me know what you think?

HQ: Grey Knight Grand Master, hammer, brain mines, Incinerator.
HQ: Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, power armour, psyker, rad grenades
Elites: 5x Purifiers, Halberd, hammer
Troops: 5x Strikes, Psycannon, psyback
Troops: 5x Strikes, Psycannon, payback
Heavy: Land raider cruisader, Psybolt Ammunition (INQ, GM and purifiers go here)
Heavy: Dreadknight, Incinerator, sword, teleporter
Heavy: Dreadknight, Incinerator, sword, teleporter

Exactly 1500 points. A lot more mobile. Nothing is held in reserve. Slightly more firepower, slightly less squish able on the table top. Hopefully can roll high on grand strategy the targets will be the dreadknights and then the purifiers for unyielding anvil.

I don't know if i like the GM having a hammer here. In a challenge he swings last and that isn't so good. Also i don't know about giving the DKs swords, at a higher point level i would be all for it but at 1500 point's imo it is a luxury ill afforded. I understand that you want to be more mobile and do not trust anything in reserve in fear of things getting delayed to turn 4. I like Coteaz as a HQ, he is cheap and for what he brings to the table (reroll initiative rolls, modify reserve rolls and psyker level 2) he is hard to ignore.There are a few other things you can do but i feel like any of those suggestions would alter your list into something not as mobile.

I do suggest thinking about taking an ally detachment of space marines. A drop pod with sternguard and a librarian and pick your troop choice would be worthwhile to your theme of your list. It gives you a first turn punch that can put pressure on your opponent right away. This still leaves you having to rework your list but i atleast wanted to let you know that with GKs having SMs as allies we now have access to more toys to play with. For more lulz take the Iron Hands chapter tactics to get some feel no pains Lastly your army has nothing shooting beyond 24in, you will find yourself being outgunned by other armies. Dreadnoughts with autocannons would help greatly here with a 48in range and now are harder to one shot. I hope i have been some help and would like to hear an update on whatever list you end up running!

The GM lives with the purifiers. If a challenge is issued and I'm coming concerned about him swinging last then I can accept the challenge with the Justicar with a halberd. It's still force weapon. It's still at strength 6 with hammerhand and he'll have a reasonable amount of attacks. I contemplated a halberd on the GM. But I think the potential S10 hits from his hammer could be invaluable.

I considered SM allies. Namely salamander stern guard in a pod. But I'd have to change my list for too drastically to fit that in.

So what do people think? Hammer or halberd for the GM. Their points are the same. The idea is to cast hammerhand on a turn that combat is expected. So a hammer would be S10 ap2 but striking last. The halberd would be s6 ap3 but striking at initiative 7...They're both force weapons. So have the potential to instant death something. I was leaning towards the hammer for the AP2. He is running with the purifiers so they have a single halberd and a single hammer in their. And with the inquisitor there is 4 force swords. With the inquisitor, purifiers and GM I should be able to get hammerhand off and activate force weapons so....... Let me know what you think...

Take the hammer. The GM has enough wounds and enough defense to strike last. Also, if for some reason you don't get hammerhand and force off, you'll still be S8 and AP2.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, if you are taking anything in a pod, why wouldn't you take grey hunters?