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How can it be cyber bulling? That is so silly. To Cyber bully someone he has to be affected. It would have to be aimed at him and him named.Can one of you tell me his name? None of friends, him, or anyone in the store have even mentioned going on dakka dakka and with all the drama over this I think they would have had said something had anyone read this b/c everyone was talking about it. I think this is really far off. Now I think your looking for a Darth Vader. Hmmm maybe your right Darth woulda crushed him too. As far as running him out of the store if he doesn't show next week I will feel bad. I will apologize to him see if I can mend the bridge and just not play him again. I think it would be a bad idea unless I let him win.

Was I smug? No I was angry and I let it get the better of me. Esp when I showed up and everyone was there and the board was already set up. I somehow I knew it was coming b/c I had 2 lists made and 1 was a very nasty tournament list the other a fun Pally list.

The people were already gathered around whispering. There was tension in the air that you could feel. I think he had told them he could beat me. Should I have played that game angry? No probably not now that I look back on it. I was very very angry. I am just now calming down and not angry when i look back at event. I think you have helped me to move on and venting here helped. I have to learn to let things go. I know why he thought he could beat me b/c my prev. games had been close b/c I had been bringing fluff lists and playing loose letting things go. People were saying his list was the list to beat. Land Raiders, Terminators, Devastators and Storm Ravens are rough for people to deal with. He was 2-0 I think that is why he felt the need to cheat in the close game. I should have just been a better person and let him move out of the way of Coteaz it would have made almost no difference vs my list. Except that he lost the stern guard and the drop pod instantly to Coteaz it just meant no recovery at all possible. He had already lost the Land Raider and a squad on turn 1. The only real threat was the other Storm Raven and other Land Raider w/ the termies inside. Really tho with 21 Jokaero w/ Prescience (7 of them have ignores cover from Coteaz), 6+ Psychic Scream Rhinos, 2 Conv Beam Tech Marines,+ some PC servitors, and 6 full untouched Void shields none of what was left was at all a threat.

As far as me not playing him that game he challenged me. Why would he do that? Why would anyone try and move your units back out of range of something after placing them? I have played war games a long time and I can't even imagine doing that. Would any of you even ask to do that or start doing that w/o even asking? Had he asked I might have said yes. Again just assuming he could just move the units like nothing happened made me mad. I think he honestly thought he could beat me. When that unit of Stern was dead and with it their meltas and combi meltas. I think he knew it was over and just quit. He was counting on his stern guard to at least drop half the Voids and the Devs the rest. SO I think he packed up b/c there was no point in just getting tabled. It wasn't the indecent that caused it it was just clearly over at that point.

"That was not a good way to handle the situation. Pretty disgraceful, in fact. Especially when you come back here to thump your chest about it. "

You may be right and I was angry and needed a release.You have no idea how mad the cheating made me. I am not sure why he challenged me to another game. I don't lose. I won the last 3 of 4 Tournament I was in and the one I lost was a silly mistake on my part.

I will tell you what someone told me. They heard his Girlfriend ask on the way out. "How did you lose that?", but he didn't hear the response.

I think he is unphased, I will apologize and I think everything will blow over. I would bet he challenges me again. I don't think he'll change but I have learned a lesson - "Don't drive angry." Bill Murray Ground Hog Day.

 Peregrine wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
I don't think that beating him by not telling him about your rules was particularly called for.

He already knew about Coteaz because he'd played against Coteaz before. I see no obligation to help an opponent avoid making a stupid mistake, especially someone who just got caught cheating. TBH they should just be thankful that they were allowed to play a game at all.

People forget or make mistakes, and when it comes to something as game changing as that I think its better to make sure my opponent knows that otherwise it changes the whole game. I don't think its called for to deliberately trick someone like that.

Oh I forgot they guy was CHEATING at a TOY SOLDIERS GAME, so we better shoot him and humiliate his family, just to make sure he never does it again.

I disagree. If they have played vs Coteaz before they really should be careful or why do I even have the ability so I can warn people every game? I will will warn them in 1st game or in a friendly game after that your on your own.

The now famous 1st game vs him I charged my Dread Knight into his Stern Guard b/c I had never had a problem with them before but he had some AP 2 Relic blade. That is my problem not his to warn me not to charge b/c he has a relic blade. Shouldn I be responsible to know what the squad has that I charge or him? I know at my store it is a requirement to hand a list to someone before you play.

It may be toy soldiers but how much time and money do people have invested in this hobby? I think it fair to ask for enough respect of my time and money not to try and cheat?

 Mythra wrote:
I disagree. If they have played vs Coteaz before they really should be careful or why do I even have the ability so I can warn people every game? I will will warn them in 1st game or in a friendly game after that your on your own.

The now famous 1st game vs him I charged my Dread Knight into his Stern Guard b/c I had never had a problem with them before but he had some AP 2 Relic blade. That is my problem not his to warn me not to charge b/c he has a relic blade. Shouldn I be responsible to know what the squad has that I charge or him? I know at my store it is a requirement to hand a list to someone before you play.

It may be toy soldiers but how much time and money do people have invested in this hobby? I think it fair to ask for enough respect of my time and money not to try and cheat?

I don't think its OK to cheat, but I don't think that people should get so worked up about it, certainly not over a one time thing, if its chronic then that's another matter, but in one moment of weakness, as long as the guy understands that it won't be tolerated I don't think the guy should be bullied out of the store like that.

I don't understand why people say "bullying" like it's a dirty word. If it's for no reason, or because someone's newer or smaller than you, I got it. On your side 110%.

That's not the case here. This guy screwed the pooch, and he deserves to have his nose rubbed in it thoroughly. Bullying to correct antisocial behavior (cheating) is absolutely justified.

Light him up.

 Pyeatt wrote:
I don't understand why people say "bullying" like it's a dirty word. If it's for no reason, or because someone's newer or smaller than you, I got it. On your side 110%.

That's not the case here. This guy screwed the pooch, and he deserves to have his nose rubbed in it thoroughly. Bullying to correct antisocial behavior (cheating) is absolutely justified.

Light him up.

I don't think its ever justified. There are better ways of dealing with something like that. Its just a toy soldiers game, yes its your money but the guy didn't break your models or throw things, I certainly don't think this is any worse than people who smash things when they lose.

If he was cheating on a friendly game, once again, 110% behind you.

He was cheating in a league with a prize that you had to pay to get into. That is not only cheating but theft.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or attempted theft anyhow... OP said that the guy was still losing.

 Pyeatt wrote:
If he was cheating on a friendly game, once again, 110% behind you.

He was cheating in a league with a prize that you had to pay to get into. That is not only cheating but theft.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or attempted theft anyhow... OP said that the guy was still losing.

I agree, void any games he has played because they're under suspicion. But some people want to treat the guy like a child molester because he probably started losing in a game and panicked.

Holy crap Emilcrane

You're escalating the situation to make my side seem weaker. Unsure what kind of fallacy that is, as it's 5AM here, but rest assure it is one.

Quit being a drama queen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EmilCrane wrote:


I agree, void any games he has played because they're under suspicion. But some people want to treat the guy like a child molester because he probably started losing in a game and panicked.

Did I or anyone here advocate the literal castration of this person? If so, I must have missed it.

Here's the thing, Mythra.

You caught him cheating. He should be punished for the cheating absolutely. Now whether that is voiding games or expulsion from your league is really based on how your league thinks. Cheating is a very serious offense in a gaming group, and it should be treated that way.

However, it was abundantly clear that you are not treating it seriously, and you were far more interested in 'getting back' at him rather than simply fixing the issue in your group and moving on. Why else would you post this whole story about how you humiliated him and had him leaving the store about to cry? As soon as correcting him for cheating became a public "YEAH I MADE HIM CRY AND HIS GIRLFRIEND WAS THERE TOO!" display, you have become a problem player yourself. You have become some bitter and vindictive person who seeks to humiliate those who wrong them.

Being caught cheating is a pretty serious humiliation, because it hurts and undermines everyone's trust of him. And here's the crazy thing, I think that is part of the punishment and that's fine. But this whole story was you looking for gratification and nothing more. Dealing with a cheater should be a serious conversation, not some opportunity to run someone out of your group while thumping your chest like the badass you think you are. One problem has been replaced with another, imo.

He obviously wasn't humiliated enough to go out of his way to challenge that guy he previously cheated against ot a "rematch". That's his own damn fault. I'd have not taken up the game but there's nothing wrong with taking up the game.

That guy set himself up for failure again which is even more hilarious.


Also, is this at Little Wars? Cause I use to live in Baton Rouge and play there. How's the store doing?

Nope in New Orleans. I've only been to Little Wars once.

I am famous for being vindictive it is something I have worked on forever. I was a lot worse when I was younger -- 20 years ago. My mom always said get even. I got back at the teach who would smoke in class and not open a windows. We complained but no one cared back 20 years ago. She was really big so I glued a salad plate w/ salad, diet coke, diet book, and a knife and fork to her desk. My 1st first accident I didn't know not to move the cars so he lied to cop when he got there and said I hit him. I kept the accident report for 4 years and did the egg news paper to his whole car. In college the guy who beat my head against a cinder block wall got nair in his shampoo.

My friends always tell me let me know if your mad at me please I'll do anything to fix it. So honestly yeah we all have our flaws and I have gotten better. So you might be right to ride me over my vindictiveness. All I can say is I am working on it. The guy last year who painted out of a game store down here he one day took off with everyones stuff and their cash. He got me for a bio-titan, some nids, Death Kreig squads, and $500. I considered getting him back but let it go. So am I perfect no. Are you?

 Mythra wrote:
Nope in New Orleans. I've only been to Little Wars once.

I am famous for being vindictive it is something I have worked on forever. I was a lot worse when I was younger -- 20 years ago. My mom always said get even. I got back at the teach who would smoke in class and not open a windows. We complained but no one cared back 20 years ago. She was really big so I glued a salad plate w/ salad, diet coke, diet book, and a knife and fork to her desk. My 1st first accident I didn't know not to move the cars so he lied to cop when he got there and said I hit him. I kept the accident report for 4 years and did the egg news paper to his whole car. In college the guy who beat my head against a cinder block wall got nair in his shampoo.

My friends always tell me let me know if your mad at me please I'll do anything to fix it. So honestly yeah we all have our flaws and I have gotten better. So you might be right to ride me over my vindictiveness. All I can say is I am working on it. The guy last year who painted out of a game store down here he one day took off with everyones stuff and their cash. He got me for a bio-titan, some nids, Death Kreig squads, and $500. I considered getting him back but let it go. So am I perfect no. Are you?

You sound like you're some boxer or something post match!! I don't think I'd be able to play a whole game against you either.

It's good sportsmanship to run through your army before any game and tell the person you play against what your army can do and clarify any special rules.

 Mythra wrote:
Nope in New Orleans. I've only been to Little Wars once.

I am famous for being vindictive it is something I have worked on forever. I was a lot worse when I was younger -- 20 years ago. My mom always said get even. I got back at the teach who would smoke in class and not open a windows. We complained but no one cared back 20 years ago. She was really big so I glued a salad plate w/ salad, diet coke, diet book, and a knife and fork to her desk. My 1st first accident I didn't know not to move the cars so he lied to cop when he got there and said I hit him. I kept the accident report for 4 years and did the egg news paper to his whole car. In college the guy who beat my head against a cinder block wall got nair in his shampoo.

My friends always tell me let me know if your mad at me please I'll do anything to fix it. So honestly yeah we all have our flaws and I have gotten better. So you might be right to ride me over my vindictiveness. All I can say is I am working on it. The guy last year who painted out of a game store down here he one day took off with everyones stuff and their cash. He got me for a bio-titan, some nids, Death Kreig squads, and $500. I considered getting him back but let it go. So am I perfect no. Are you?

I like the cut of your jib.

The "alleged" cheater thought he would show you up by challenging you to a rematch. You ROFLMAO stomped him what (1st or 2nd turn?). He got flustered, mad, embarrassed, conceded the game, and left.

You told us about it and we all had a chuckle.

The mistake would be pursuing a vendetta after this. He has now been outed as cheater and his attempt at "showing you he can beat you without cheating" has failed. Now is the time to be a bigger person and make the appropriate noises at making amends.

Bullying is when you seek someone out to pick on them in some manner for no other reason than to make yourself feel better or bigger.

You did neither and you have nothing to be ashamed of.

Everyone's actions have consequences. Being humiliated as a consequence of your actions is NOT bullying. It is called karma.

Was the 1st turn. I think I may play him again w a total fluff game and let him win. That would prob. help.

Weird what store is in New Orleans, I was just living there a few years ago. Unless this was that +1 gaming or whatever out in Metaire?

Guy got what was coming honestly, to cheat then challenge the person you cheated against to a game in order to prove you can beat them without cheating is just dumb. Glad you straight up beat him.

I'd totally fething gaslight that dude. Just every time he's there just be like " Hey, Anyone want to play some pick up games? No cheating!".

No one can argue that cheating ISNT bad. I think my point on all this was that some people just dont KNOW yet how important it is to the big puicture that they play things as straight up as they can. MANY people have been called cheaters for interpreting a rule in their own favor when it could go either way and thats really just a difference of opinion. I think newer players get a little more rope with me because I want to develop them into better players. Now if someone is unrecalcitrant and shows a TREND of bad behavior over a few months time, and never feels a need to apologize when given thge chance, okay. You might just have to call it a loss. But its a small pool we swim in. I'd rather have a few come to Jesus meetings with a guy than to blow him out as if *I* had never made errors in judgement before. We all have. Play it out and just see whether the dude hangs himsefl again.

and don't line the table with an inquisition like you did in your second game. Yikes.

 Mythra wrote:
Nope in New Orleans. I've only been to Little Wars once.

I am famous for being vindictive it is something I have worked on forever. I was a lot worse when I was younger -- 20 years ago. My mom always said get even. I got back at the teach who would smoke in class and not open a windows. We complained but no one cared back 20 years ago. She was really big so I glued a salad plate w/ salad, diet coke, diet book, and a knife and fork to her desk. My 1st first accident I didn't know not to move the cars so he lied to cop when he got there and said I hit him. I kept the accident report for 4 years and did the egg news paper to his whole car. In college the guy who beat my head against a cinder block wall got nair in his shampoo.

My friends always tell me let me know if your mad at me please I'll do anything to fix it. So honestly yeah we all have our flaws and I have gotten better. So you might be right to ride me over my vindictiveness. All I can say is I am working on it. The guy last year who painted out of a game store down here he one day took off with everyones stuff and their cash. He got me for a bio-titan, some nids, Death Kreig squads, and $500. I considered getting him back but let it go. So am I perfect no. Are you?

You prob shouldn't leave your house. Your going to end up hurting someone over something silly based off of your past history and violence. This explains why your lashing out at him on the internet and humiliating him etc.

Funny, I keep thinking of that phrase:
"A Lannister always pays his debts."

Should someone be punished for infringing on your rights or for the overall antisocial behavior?

Liked this bit in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/04/opinion/04iht-edbadsport.1.7751929.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

"Paradoxically, one of the most powerful motivations for cheating, according to scholars who study decision-making, is a desire for fairness.

...In a way, this is common sense: If an opponent is illegally gaining some advantage over me, I'll want to balance things out. But what's more surprising is the way the effect extends beyond situations in which cheating confers an advantage.

...Since coaches and players can't know what opponents are doing, they "tend to think that others are doing what they are doing and thinking what they are thinking," he says.

...In particular, people seem willing in some cases to simply ignore the cost of getting caught.

...When they asked subjects to write down as many of the Ten Commandments as they could remember before taking the test, it virtually eliminated cheating.

So, before the game get them to write down the 10 commandments.

I must admit, anyone I met that tended to cheat were actually surprised that I was not doing the same (when it was knowing the rules and employing some degree of strategy instead).

My leaning on this matter is I do not want to play these people. Their trust of others is so broken they question everything I do, expect no questioning them and claim every loss as unfair.

Sorry, no time to indulge, this IS my leisure time, please go see a therapist and learn to fall backwards into other people's arms...

Damn. Your punishment ended up being WAY worse than mine!

Kal-El wrote:


You prob shouldn't leave your house. Your going to end up hurting someone over something silly based off of your past history and violence. This explains why your lashing out at him on the internet and humiliating him etc.

Please.

 EmilCrane wrote:
I don't think its called for to deliberately trick someone like that.

There is no trick, the opponent had played against Coteaz before, knew what he did, and just made a stupid mistake. There is absolutely no obligation to allow an opponent to take back a stupid mistake just because it might cost them the game. Accept that you lost the game with your bad decisions and move on.

 EmilCrane wrote:
Its just a toy soldiers game, yes its your money but the guy didn't break your models or throw things, I certainly don't think this is any worse than people who smash things when they lose.

Of course it's not as bad as smashing stuff, which is why it should end in the guy getting kicked out of the league, not a call to the police and a lawsuit over the damaged property.