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Currently running a ravenwing list vs chaos. Im debating whether to take 2 squads of black knights or go a bit more death-raven and take 2 lots of deathknights. I have plenty of troops already plus 2 raven comm sqs. Im steering towards the death knighrs for the extra ap vs choas but the blackknights are decent in combat and still get str 7 plasma talons too.. Any one have suggestions . Math hammer is welcome!!

I prefer the Black Knights to the Deathwing Knights myself. It depends how many points you are playing too. It also depends on what you are using for an HQ. If your HQ is on a bike you at minimum should take a RWCS as they are cheaper and don't take up a FA slot.

If you are mostly raven wing having 2 units of 2+/5++ is nice. specially vs chaos.

RJCarrot wrote:
I prefer the Black Knights to the Deathwing Knights myself. It depends how many points you are playing too. It also depends on what you are using for an HQ. If your HQ is on a bike you at minimum should take a RWCS as they are cheaper and don't take up a FA slot.

Its2000 points and i have 2 rav command squads in my list as my lib and samaull are biked up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 raiden wrote:
If you are mostly raven wing having 2 units of 2+/5++ is nice. specially vs chaos.

Are they not 2+/3++? They have storm shields by default

2+/3++ with a T5 if grouped correctly. Those are some tough buggers unless you hit them with heavy weaponry. Vs. Chaos they can take out anything almost guaranteed, be it a Vehicle, the HQ or whatever you want gone. Getting there however is the same problem as always, they nearly mandate a LR as a transport.

Or -- for a similar amount of points... you could have twin-linked 18" range plasma guns, a grenade launcher that allows you to assault most things with the intiative advantage. T5 regardless of positioning, 12" Movement, a 3+/3++ (with FNP for the command squad or the option of 2++ cover w/ a dark shroud)
The ability to hit and run, hammer of wrath and more attacks (more versatility regardless or horde or armor, because rending Hammer of warth and 3 attacks each)


When you factor in the cost of a LR on top of that to deliver them, the fire power probably not even beating the knights... I don't think its even close.

In terms of overall competitiveness the bikes win out. They are faster, have strong shooting capability and beat most things out in cc. They are also very independent, and can operate and handle most things alone.

Whilst I do like DW knights, they do have some flaws, not least their slow movement and reliance on a landraider to get where they need to go.

Having a list to work from also helps, its hard to offer suggestions without seeing what you are working from.

Here is my 2000 though if you are just looking for something to work off of.

(200) - HQ1 - Sammael
(115) - HQ2 - Librarian W/Bike/PFG
(215) - None - RWCS W/RWCB
(176) - Troop 1 - RWAS(6) W/Flamer(2)/MeltaBombs
(186) - Troop 2 - RWAS(6) W/Melta(2)/MeltaBombs
(155) - Troop 3 - TacSquad(10) W/PC (Only running this because I don't own more bikes to field yet)
(215) - Fast Attack 1 - RBK(7)
(220) - Elite 1 - Contemptor Mortis Dread W/TLLC/CML
(145) - Elite 2 - Mortis Dread W/TLLC
(289) - Elite 3 - DWTS(5) W/THSS(5)

Right now I am playing with having the DWTS to DWStrike Turn 2 as well as not having the models to field the bikes I want at 2000 (I think I would rather consolidate the DWTS/TacSquad into another squad of Knights (and another libby but I am not sure if 3HQ can be done, if not just the knights)

I have found the dreads to be almost a must in 1850+ because people bring in stuff that needs to be AA/AT'd down ASAP.

I am pretty confident with my 1500 (in my Sig) but the extra 500 are a crap shoot ATM. I haven't had enough games over 1500 to test what I would really solidly like to run (2 games total)

But that is at least a starting point to go off of and I am sure others will C&C my list to help you and I out more, but at least it is a starting point for the discussion. Maybe post your "I'm thinking of" list and we can compare notes.

I do however agree with bill that the Bikes are really where the DA shine. While the Terminators are good, I find their points are better off spent on more bikes.