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 scarletsquig wrote:
Ooh, interesting.

Well, they do run their own really successful business anyway, perhaps the day job just became unnecessary or too time-consuming on top of all their other work?

If it means more releases for their own miniature lines, this is definitely a good thing!

I heard that their salary was around £90k, so you can see why they stayed as long as they did despite running a business alongside.

They did some amazing work when left to their own devices at GW, kits like the Mordheim militia were amazing and their work on the LotR line was just plain brilliant, without them it wouldn't have looked anywhere near as good.

Problems with GW execs I think.

 judgedoug wrote:


It's a fairly interesting history. GW was using a plastics company via contract work, in the late 80's and early 90's. Then they bought out that company, integrated their equipment and staff, and make the owner the head of their plastics engineering division. Then when GW started switching to CAD only (instead of traditional 3-up), they forced their plastics guy into early retirement. A month after he left GW, he started Renedra. Whose first kit was a Perry kit, and who also do plastics for companies such as Mantic, Fireforge, Warlord, etc...

I never fail to be amazed at how many competitors GW actually creates rather than just allows. I didn't realise that Renadra was founded by an ex-GW staffer as well. I knew there was an overlap but assumed it was the other way round with GW buying part of Renadra.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lone Cat wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Ooh, interesting.

Well, they do run their own really successful business anyway, perhaps the day job just became unnecessary or too time-consuming on top of all their other work?

If it means more releases for their own miniature lines, this is definitely a good thing!

I heard that their salary was around £90k, so you can see why they stayed as long as they did despite running a business alongside.

They did some amazing work when left to their own devices at GW, kits like the Mordheim militia were amazing and their work on the LotR line was just plain brilliant, without them it wouldn't have looked anywhere near as good.

Problems with GW execs I think.

I assume that most likely is that the Perry Miniatures range has become successful enough for them to work on it full time now instead of it being an evening/weekend hobby project, which has allowed them to move away from GW to what they've always wanted to do.

 sing your life wrote:

They're not the worst plastics GW ever made (that honor goes to the plastic Goliaths) but they're really close. And largely it's due to design choices not sculpting.

I never said that. In fact I think the plastic goliaths are great [in a so bad it's good way]

The discussion about CAD vs traditional sculpting reminds of this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/523711.page

And it might seem like I'm beating a dead horse here, but I stand firm that CAD sculptors often skip or simply neglect to include musculature on organic models. CAD is great for vehicles and heavy armor like Terminators but without the traditional method of using a "core" or "doll" when sculpting a human or creature miniature, there is a very obvious spark missing from the final piece. And of course a hand sculptor would not cut big curves (ex: Nurgle Plaguebearers) and loopy lines into a master as that can easily destroy the believability of the final sculpt. Where as on a CAD piece, this is overlooked as a byproduct of using digital tools.

And YES! I really hope the Perry's expand upon their WoTR and HYW ranges, if you want to get into historicals they have some of the best and most affordable per model plastic box sets. I can just here the unit building sound effects from Age of Empires right now... Brrrrrrr-ooouRUP! *Halberd* ready

CAD does far superior fur to traditional sculpting for plastics. Things like new boars and starter/bell rat ogre are amazing.

Hey guys I'm all for a debate over CAD vs GS but this thread is about the Perry's leaving GW not about sculpting types. So let's just stick to that or open up another thread in the discussions. All of this aside I'm excited but it can go either way. Their plastics are superb but the metals are some of the worst on the market casting wise. I spend three times longer just cleaning their metals then I would foundry which sucks because the sculpts are amazing.

 RedSarge wrote:
The discussion about CAD vs traditional sculpting reminds of this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/523711.page

And it might seem like I'm beating a dead horse here, but I stand firm that CAD sculptors often skip or simply neglect to include musculature on organic models. CAD is great for vehicles and heavy armor like Terminators but without the traditional method of using a "core" or "doll" when sculpting a human or creature miniature, there is a very obvious spark missing from the final piece. And of course a hand sculptor would not cut big curves (ex: Nurgle Plaguebearers) and loopy lines into a master as that can easily destroy the believability of the final sculpt. Where as on a CAD piece, this is overlooked as a byproduct of using digital tools.

And YES! I really hope the Perry's expand upon their WoTR and HYW ranges, if you want to get into historicals they have some of the best and most affordable per model plastic box sets. I can just here the unit building sound effects from Age of Empires right now... Brrrrrrr-ooouRUP! *Halberd* ready

Well i am not a historical or fantasy player, so if Perry 1 & 2, make no futuristic stuff anymore, I will sadly not buy anything from them.

And on the CAD design, CAD is a tool and the designs made by it, depends on the designers skill, maybe the problem is that most CAD designers only have experience in designing technical things so they need some anatomy classes to be up to speed.

I hope the Perrys start up their own Fantasy line.

I don't. They are best at what they do at the moment: Very high quality, yet affordable historical miniatures.

Fantasy leads to people expecting "Heroic Scale" and that's just not what they are... I think.

Imagine if they made very high quality, yet affordable Fantasy miniatures?

Most of what they produce is perfectly usable in Fantasy, which is really just Medieval anyway.

 snurl wrote:
Imagine if they made very high quality, yet affordable Fantasy miniatures?

Minion miniatures and maybe mantic are already making that.

 Pacific wrote:
That's surprising, normally people with an artistic bent aren't of that nature from my experience.

Can I ask how you know such a thing Weeble?

I've met the man. He is sleazy and willing to sacrifice his scruples for the company, and with apparent relish. Go read his testimony in the GW v CHS trial and imagine it with the gak-eating grin of an insurance salesmen. John Blanche testified for GW too, or at least was deposed. He did it grudgingly and and with about as much relish as his 7th edition videos. GW couldn't rely on his testimony, so they brought in Jes Gooodwin because he would travel to the US, swear an oath, and say anything GW wanted him to say. He would be willing to weasel through his answers, be evasive, and do his best to be effusively charming the entire time. He did his very best to spin the for more candid testimony of Bob Naismith, whose testimony about Space Marines frankly trumps Jes Goodwin as Jes just executed what Bob had already designed before Jes started working for GW.

Imagine that for a minute. Jes knew he didn't design Space Marines. Jes knew it was Bob Naismith's work. Jes knew Bob had already testified. Jes probably read Bob's testimony. Jes must have known precisely why he was brought in to testify; to clean up and/or contradict what Bob had said. And he did it. He did it happily. He did it without a shred of guilt or embarrassment. He did it because GW told him to.

Anyone who will do something like that is, frankly, a company whore.

People may nick-pick and mention those catachans, but for dakka's sake, they did the green knight, one of my all time favourite minis. Their place in history is assured.

Herzlos wrote:
Most of what they produce is perfectly usable in Fantasy, which is really just Medieval anyway.

Their War of the Roses Mercenaries box made me two Mordheim warbands and a Blood Bowl team!

 sing your life wrote:

 snurl wrote:
Imagine if they made very high quality, yet affordable Fantasy miniatures?

Minion miniatures and maybe mantic are already making that.

Not even close on either account, in terms of either availability or quality!

I'd love for the Perry twins to expand into more fantastic territory, but I can see them just sticking to historical or just slowing down and retiring!

 sing your life wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

They're not the worst plastics GW ever made (that honor goes to the plastic Goliaths) but they're really close. And largely it's due to design choices not sculpting.

I never said that. In fact I think the plastic goliaths are great [in a so bad it's good way]

I see you have found someone that you can converse with on a level footing.

 sing your life wrote:

 snurl wrote:
Imagine if they made very high quality, yet affordable Fantasy miniatures?

Minion miniatures and maybe mantic are already making that.

Not sure about that. Minion hasn't gotten anything into production, or possibly even sculpted yet, so there's really nothing to be said for them yet. As for Mantic, it's still a very hit-and miss company. When compared to Perry, Mantic's fantasy human troops are truely sub-par, even awful I'd say. Also, Most Mantic kits -even the nice ones- are fairly limited in their options when compared to Perry or GW.

Fantasy from Perry would be great, but I do hope they'd stick with the mostly-true-28mm scale they've established so far to retain compatibility. Barring full kits, what I'd like to see is Perry do a fantasy sprue for their existing lines. Alternate helmets, shields and weapons that would give a bit of fantasy flavor to their already gorgeous (and fantasy useable) medieval troops.

I really like metal models, but if I hadn't scored such an amazing deal on metal miniatures, I'd definitely be using perry plastics for my someday-to-be-done KoW good-Human army.

weeble1000 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
That's surprising, normally people with an artistic bent aren't of that nature from my experience.

Can I ask how you know such a thing Weeble?

I've met the man. He is sleazy and willing to sacrifice his scruples for the company, and with apparent relish. Go read his testimony in the GW v CHS trial and imagine it with the gak-eating grin of an insurance salesmen. John Blanche testified for GW too, or at least was deposed. He did it grudgingly and and with about as much relish as his 7th edition videos. GW couldn't rely on his testimony, so they brought in Jes Gooodwin because he would travel to the US, swear an oath, and say anything GW wanted him to say. He would be willing to weasel through his answers, be evasive, and do his best to be effusively charming the entire time. He did his very best to spin the for more candid testimony of Bob Naismith, whose testimony about Space Marines frankly trumps Jes Goodwin as Jes just executed what Bob had already designed before Jes started working for GW.

Imagine that for a minute. Jes knew he didn't design Space Marines. Jes knew it was Bob Naismith's work. Jes knew Bob had already testified. Jes probably read Bob's testimony. Jes must have known precisely why he was brought in to testify; to clean up and/or contradict what Bob had said. And he did it. He did it happily. He did it without a shred of guilt or embarrassment. He did it because GW told him to.

Anyone who will do something like that is, frankly, a company whore.

Wait so you've met him, but then you tell us a story about the CHS case? So you're really just basing your thoughts on his testimony as you apparently have had no interaction with the man.

 Medium of Death wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
That's surprising, normally people with an artistic bent aren't of that nature from my experience.

Can I ask how you know such a thing Weeble?

I've met the man. He is sleazy and willing to sacrifice his scruples for the company, and with apparent relish. Go read his testimony in the GW v CHS trial and imagine it with the gak-eating grin of an insurance salesmen. John Blanche testified for GW too, or at least was deposed. He did it grudgingly and and with about as much relish as his 7th edition videos. GW couldn't rely on his testimony, so they brought in Jes Gooodwin because he would travel to the US, swear an oath, and say anything GW wanted him to say. He would be willing to weasel through his answers, be evasive, and do his best to be effusively charming the entire time. He did his very best to spin the for more candid testimony of Bob Naismith, whose testimony about Space Marines frankly trumps Jes Goodwin as Jes just executed what Bob had already designed before Jes started working for GW.

Imagine that for a minute. Jes knew he didn't design Space Marines. Jes knew it was Bob Naismith's work. Jes knew Bob had already testified. Jes probably read Bob's testimony. Jes must have known precisely why he was brought in to testify; to clean up and/or contradict what Bob had said. And he did it. He did it happily. He did it without a shred of guilt or embarrassment. He did it because GW told him to.

Anyone who will do something like that is, frankly, a company whore.

Wait so you've met him, but then you tell us a story about the CHS case? So you're really just basing your thoughts on his testimony as you apparently have had no interaction with the man.

Or he thought the trial story would be easier for people to picture than a meeting/series of meetings between two individuals, probably because of the legal and ethical ramifications of his actions at trial which everyone should understand. Weeble seems like a decent poster who doesn't fly off the handle at things, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for this, but each to their own.

weeble1000 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
That's surprising, normally people with an artistic bent aren't of that nature from my experience.

Can I ask how you know such a thing Weeble?

I've met the man. He is sleazy and willing to sacrifice his scruples for the company, and with apparent relish. Go read his testimony in the GW v CHS trial and imagine it with the gak-eating grin of an insurance salesmen. John Blanche testified for GW too, or at least was deposed. He did it grudgingly and and with about as much relish as his 7th edition videos. GW couldn't rely on his testimony, so they brought in Jes Gooodwin because he would travel to the US, swear an oath, and say anything GW wanted him to say. He would be willing to weasel through his answers, be evasive, and do his best to be effusively charming the entire time. He did his very best to spin the for more candid testimony of Bob Naismith, whose testimony about Space Marines frankly trumps Jes Goodwin as Jes just executed what Bob had already designed before Jes started working for GW.

Imagine that for a minute. Jes knew he didn't design Space Marines. Jes knew it was Bob Naismith's work. Jes knew Bob had already testified. Jes probably read Bob's testimony. Jes must have known precisely why he was brought in to testify; to clean up and/or contradict what Bob had said. And he did it. He did it happily. He did it without a shred of guilt or embarrassment. He did it because GW told him to.

Anyone who will do something like that is, frankly, a company whore.

Do you have links to the Naismith, Blanche and Goodwin testimonies? I'd love to read them, but wading through the court documents is not an insignificant task, especially if you're not used to doing it/have no idea how best to find something.

Also, Jes was working for GW from the start of the Citadel brand, since he was one of Asgard's sculptors under Ansell - so he predates Warhammer, let alone Rogue Trader or the Marines..

Alpharius wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 snurl wrote:
Imagine if they made very high quality, yet affordable Fantasy miniatures?

Minion miniatures and maybe mantic are already making that.

Not even close on either account, in terms of either availability or quality!

I'd love for the Perry twins to expand into more fantastic territory, but I can see them just sticking to historical or just slowing down and retiring!

Matter of opinion, The Minion range is looking great and will be released in a couple of months. Meanwhile I can get Mantic at my LGSs and some of their miniatures are very good.

notprop wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

They're not the worst plastics GW ever made (that honor goes to the plastic Goliaths) but they're really close. And largely it's due to design choices not sculpting.

I never said that. In fact I think the plastic goliaths are great [in a so bad it's good way]

I see you have found someone that you can converse with on a level footing.

I have literally no idea what you are trying to say.

 sing your life wrote:

notprop wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

They're not the worst plastics GW ever made (that honor goes to the plastic Goliaths) but they're really close. And largely it's due to design choices not sculpting.

I never said that. In fact I think the plastic goliaths are great [in a so bad it's good way]

I see you have found someone that you can converse with on a level footing.

I have literally no idea what you are trying to say.

Look closely at the quotes.

 snurl wrote:
Imagine if they made very high quality, yet affordable Fantasy miniatures?

Can't see that happening - based on a couple of things:

1) A likely non-compete clause. We heard about Priestly's one. No Sci-fi or Fantasy for X number of years.
2) They are major historical buffs. It's their passion, not Fantasy or not-Imperial Astra Guard Militarium. Warhammer paid the bills for many years, and also allowed them to sculpt Dark Ages Medieval/WotR figures and Renaissance Swiss as an aside. Blanche's art direction, yadda yadda - the Empire looks as it does primarily because of the Perrys.

 Azazelx wrote:

Do you have links to the Naismith, Blanche and Goodwin testimonies? I'd love to read them, but wading through the court documents is not an insignificant task, especially if you're not used to doing it/have no idea how best to find something.

Also, Jes was working for GW from the start of the Citadel brand, since he was one of Asgard's sculptors under Ansell - so he predates Warhammer, let alone Rogue Trader or the Marines..

This is drifting mildly off-topic, so I'm just going to post this link to answer Az's question and provide the information for others who might be curious by this tangent. Seems to be a pretty well laid out index of the testimonies and you can locate things pretty easily with the browser/PDF find functions. Ironically linking back to Dakka but seems to have some additional details below as well:

http://gamesummit.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14697&start=0

 motyak wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
That's surprising, normally people with an artistic bent aren't of that nature from my experience.

Can I ask how you know such a thing Weeble?

I've met the man. He is sleazy and willing to sacrifice his scruples for the company, and with apparent relish. Go read his testimony in the GW v CHS trial and imagine it with the gak-eating grin of an insurance salesmen. John Blanche testified for GW too, or at least was deposed. He did it grudgingly and and with about as much relish as his 7th edition videos. GW couldn't rely on his testimony, so they brought in Jes Gooodwin because he would travel to the US, swear an oath, and say anything GW wanted him to say. He would be willing to weasel through his answers, be evasive, and do his best to be effusively charming the entire time. He did his very best to spin the for more candid testimony of Bob Naismith, whose testimony about Space Marines frankly trumps Jes Goodwin as Jes just executed what Bob had already designed before Jes started working for GW.

Imagine that for a minute. Jes knew he didn't design Space Marines. Jes knew it was Bob Naismith's work. Jes knew Bob had already testified. Jes probably read Bob's testimony. Jes must have known precisely why he was brought in to testify; to clean up and/or contradict what Bob had said. And he did it. He did it happily. He did it without a shred of guilt or embarrassment. He did it because GW told him to.

Anyone who will do something like that is, frankly, a company whore.

Wait so you've met him, but then you tell us a story about the CHS case? So you're really just basing your thoughts on his testimony as you apparently have had no interaction with the man.

Or he thought the trial story would be easier for people to picture than a meeting/series of meetings between two individuals, probably because of the legal and ethical ramifications of his actions at trial which everyone should understand. Weeble seems like a decent poster who doesn't fly off the handle at things, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for this, but each to their own.

Well that would be an easy cop out. I think it's a bit BS to say, more or less, that "Jes is a witch" implying that it was something that happened personally and then say "oh go and read the testimony". I am currently reading the Testimony and I'm not really seeing anything that stands out as Jes being a dick. He just seems like he's not used to being in that situation and is trying his best to get his points across...

yeah,

 notprop wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

They're not the worst plastics GW ever made (that honor goes to the plastic Goliaths) but they're really close. And largely it's due to design choices not sculpting.

I never said that. In fact I think the plastic goliaths are great [in a so bad it's good way]

I see you have found someone that you can converse with on a level footing.

lol

Panic...

 Medium of Death wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
That's surprising, normally people with an artistic bent aren't of that nature from my experience.

Can I ask how you know such a thing Weeble?

I've met the man. He is sleazy and willing to sacrifice his scruples for the company, and with apparent relish. Go read his testimony in the GW v CHS trial and imagine it with the gak-eating grin of an insurance salesmen. John Blanche testified for GW too, or at least was deposed. He did it grudgingly and and with about as much relish as his 7th edition videos. GW couldn't rely on his testimony, so they brought in Jes Gooodwin because he would travel to the US, swear an oath, and say anything GW wanted him to say. He would be willing to weasel through his answers, be evasive, and do his best to be effusively charming the entire time. He did his very best to spin the for more candid testimony of Bob Naismith, whose testimony about Space Marines frankly trumps Jes Goodwin as Jes just executed what Bob had already designed before Jes started working for GW.

Imagine that for a minute. Jes knew he didn't design Space Marines. Jes knew it was Bob Naismith's work. Jes knew Bob had already testified. Jes probably read Bob's testimony. Jes must have known precisely why he was brought in to testify; to clean up and/or contradict what Bob had said. And he did it. He did it happily. He did it without a shred of guilt or embarrassment. He did it because GW told him to.

Anyone who will do something like that is, frankly, a company whore.

Wait so you've met him, but then you tell us a story about the CHS case? So you're really just basing your thoughts on his testimony as you apparently have had no interaction with the man.

Or he thought the trial story would be easier for people to picture than a meeting/series of meetings between two individuals, probably because of the legal and ethical ramifications of his actions at trial which everyone should understand. Weeble seems like a decent poster who doesn't fly off the handle at things, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for this, but each to their own.

Well that would be an easy cop out. I think it's a bit BS to say, more or less, that "Jes is a witch" implying that it was something that happened personally and then say "oh go and read the testimony". I am currently reading the Testimony and I'm not really seeing anything that stands out as Jes being a dick. He just seems like he's not used to being in that situation and is trying his best to get his points across...

His points which are, what again? Lies. Thats the one.

I either imagine, they did not adapt to CAD technology as they should have thus they got canned. Or they simply had a set contract for a few particular projects, mainly LOTR related.

 motyak wrote:


His points which are, what again? Lies. Thats the one.

Woah. Way to make this thread even more OT.

I'll miss the Perrys, but they've surely served their time; a bigger question is where GW will go, post-Hobbit and LOTR, or whether they'll simply ramp up the 40k schedule even more.