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I have a lot of Space Marine stuff and I love the faction. I just think some of the stuff they're described as being capable of is ludicrous. They're excellent shock infantry. Second to none in the Imperium. But being able to assassinate specific members of a a very foreign culture who speaks a language that is tens of a thousands of years dead? I think that would be hard for anyone unless they were either Psychic, had highly advanced technology or who were the masters of Assassination.

The reason the US is able to kill members of non-English speaking countries easily is that we have people that speak their languages on our side. If you don't know the language of a different culture than yours it is fairly difficult to understand how their society works especially if one like it doesn't exist/hasn't existed for a long time.


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 Tyran wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:



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 Tyran wrote:
Ok, I'm not going to read the 12 pages, sorry for that.

IMO, the Space Marines can't really conquer a planet, but what they can do is hit important targets to soften up the enemy for the IG.

As example, if they were attacking RL Earth, they will drop on top of the US president, kill him and get out of there. They will never engage our massed armies, they can easily outmaneuver them and attack other targets. Thunderhawks can raid and destroy almost any target, they are essentially tanks flying at hypersonic speeds, we don't have anything that can bring down something like that.

And of course we can't do nothing to their ship in orbit, so they can practically force us to surrender under the threat of being nuked to the stone age.

How do they know who the president is? They don't speak our language. How do they know where he is? They don't know the lay out of old Terra.

Ok, maybe not the president, but the are going to recognize important targets like oil refineries, fleets and other stuff.

How can Space Marines outmaneuver us? Our tanks are faster. Our jet fighters are faster than even the vaunted Thunder Hawk and can shoot them from over the horizon. Our artillery is more accurate than theirs.

A Thunderhawk is capable of reaching orbit, for that feat alone it must be far faster than any jet. No modern missile can make a direct hit to something that fast, in fact, our modern AA missiles are not meant to hit directly, but to cause damage with proximity explosions, and that isn't going to do anything to something with the armor of a tank.

Thunderhawk's maximum speed is stated to be 2,000 Km/h. The F22 Raptor's is 2400 km/h. Yeah, GW is bad with numbers.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I have a lot of Space Marine stuff and I love the faction. I just think some of the stuff they're described as being capable of is ludicrous. They're excellent shock infantry. Second to none in the Imperium. But being able to assassinate specific members of a a very foreign culture who speaks a language that is tens of a thousands of years dead? I think that would be hard for anyone unless they were either Psychic, had highly advanced technology or who were the masters of Assassination.

The reason the US is able to kill members of non-English speaking countries easily is that we have people that speak their languages on our side. If you don't know the language of a different culture than yours it is fairly difficult to understand how their society works especially if one like it doesn't exist/hasn't existed for a long time.


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 Tyran wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:



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 Tyran wrote:
Ok, I'm not going to read the 12 pages, sorry for that.

IMO, the Space Marines can't really conquer a planet, but what they can do is hit important targets to soften up the enemy for the IG.

As example, if they were attacking RL Earth, they will drop on top of the US president, kill him and get out of there. They will never engage our massed armies, they can easily outmaneuver them and attack other targets. Thunderhawks can raid and destroy almost any target, they are essentially tanks flying at hypersonic speeds, we don't have anything that can bring down something like that.

And of course we can't do nothing to their ship in orbit, so they can practically force us to surrender under the threat of being nuked to the stone age.

How do they know who the president is? They don't speak our language. How do they know where he is? They don't know the lay out of old Terra.

Ok, maybe not the president, but the are going to recognize important targets like oil refineries, fleets and other stuff.

How can Space Marines outmaneuver us? Our tanks are faster. Our jet fighters are faster than even the vaunted Thunder Hawk and can shoot them from over the horizon. Our artillery is more accurate than theirs.

A Thunderhawk is capable of reaching orbit, for that feat alone it must be far faster than any jet. No modern missile can make a direct hit to something that fast, in fact, our modern AA missiles are not meant to hit directly, but to cause damage with proximity explosions, and that isn't going to do anything to something with the armor of a tank.

Thunderhawk's maximum speed is stated to be 2,000 Km/h. The F22 Raptor's is 2400 km/h. Yeah, GW is bad with numbers.

Who said it'd be easy? They can do it

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Thunderhawk's maximum speed is stated to be 2,000 Km/h. The F22 Raptor's is 2400 km/h. Yeah, GW is bad with numbers.

Yeah, I usually ignore them when it comes to numbers, they never make sense.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

Boneville wrote:
I think this is one of the main problems i havewhen discussing these kinds of things. when people explain why they dont think its possible the answer they get back is "well there space marines of course that doesnt apply to them."

in my opinon they are good but too few. and its the numbers that will work against them in the end, the demi-god thing other people see them as is not something that i personally like or share.

I also would add that i think the idea of them invading earth is a bit sily. silly but interesting.

It's not uniform to imagine 1000 beings, superhuman or not to conquer earth.

I dont even remember whether i said SM's would take earth or not with those numbers, perhaps I did to spite all the people on here that hate SM's so much, but it probably wouldnt work. However, throw 100 million IG with those 1000 SM's then yeah, earth doesnt stand a single chance.

I just think its ridiculous to think that modern earth somehow has better technology than the IOM. I doubt modern earth even holds 10% of the knowledge the IOM has about technology. Absurd

Now I dont want anyone on here saying i am one of those "cuz they're SM's" kind of fanboys. Thats an ignorant and senseless explanation and I will not indulge in any such idiocy. I am merely frustrated with the amount of SM hate recieved on this post, especially in the beginning. We are passionate fans just as any other fanboys/girls that stay lovingly protective of their army. SM's recieve so much hate because they are always on the covers of anything warhammer 40k related and it leads to others who dont admire the SM's as much to get angry.

Well, dont get angry at the fans, be angry with GW and its many idiosyncrasies

i can fully understand the frustration. I feel the same way in some situations.

I can fully admit that im not good with numbers in these cases. I just pick one that sound cool and stick with it. I dont really care about the specifics to that extent.

I usually explain it, to myself atlest, that most of the armour is of a material that is much stronger/sturdier than what we have now and that is true with explosives as well.

Theres really noone to get angry at. Just wish it didnt get so heated all the time.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I love how Techmarines are some kind of mystical space wizard with electronics, while the Adeptus Mechanicus who trained them are literally at the point of going over ten thousand year old archives with a jeweller's glass hunting desperately for the bit in the user manual that tells them what to do when their graphics card overheats. Only they don't know that its a graphics card, they just know that the cogitator doesn't work without it.

Because they're Space Marines and that automatically makes them better than the AdMech?


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 Tyran wrote:
Ok, I'm not going to read the 12 pages, sorry for that.

IMO, the Space Marines can't really conquer a planet, but what they can do is hit important targets to soften up the enemy for the IG.

As example, if they were attacking RL Earth, they will drop on top of the US president, kill him and get out of there. They will never engage our massed armies, they can easily outmaneuver them and attack other targets. Thunderhawks can raid and destroy almost any target, they are essentially tanks flying at hypersonic speeds, we don't have anything that can bring down something like that.

And of course we can't do nothing to their ship in orbit, so they can practically force us to surrender under the threat of being nuked to the stone age.

How do they know who the president is? They don't speak our language. How do they know where he is? They don't know the lay out of old Terra.

How can Space Marines outmaneuver us? Our tanks are faster. Our jet fighters are faster than even the vaunted Thunder Hawk and can shoot them from over the horizon. Our artillery is more accurate than theirs.

But yeah, they're major one up on us is their star ships. We can do nothing about those even if we launched everything we had at them. We can't even reach them unless they we're dumb enough to "park" them in low orbit.

You do realize that they can near instantly learn our languages and our political systems by simply devouring abducted humans, right? They can learn almost everything we know by simply chowing down on a couple corpses and assimilating their memories.

They can learn skills that way? I thought it just showed them the memories like a disc player would play the disc inserted.

If they could learn whole skill sets that way, there would be no point in sending Techmarines to study.

Oh yeah, that ability breaks a lot. Why don't they appoint someone in a Tac/Command/Honor Guard squad to be the guy that eats the previous commander's brain when he bites it and automatically become as capable as he is? I can understand some situations where this would be impossible but that seems to be more the exception than the rule given how damned good marine armor/bone is. A shot to the head doesn't faze them.

They can and do learn. In Courage and Honour a Sergeant ate a Tau brain in order to pilot a Piranha on a stealth mission.

Isn't it obvious? Haven't you played the relic game Space Marine?

That's how it works. One captain titus killing a thousand orks.

A chapter can kill one million orks, perhaps five million guardsmen.




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also the fact that the orks have no armor, no guns and lousy choppas

Maximus Bitch wrote:
Isn't it obvious? Haven't you played the relic game Space Marine?

That's how it works. One captain titus killing a thousand orks.

A chapter can kill one million orks, perhaps five million guardsmen.




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also the fact that the orks have no armor, no guns and lousy choppas

The last paragraph is false. Some Orks have armour, they do have guns and what their gear lacks in quality they make up for in quality and brute force.

Space Marine is funny, as a dog-standard Chaos Raptor I solo killed 1000 foes from IG and Orks in Exterminatus, including a dozen Primaris Psykers and at least that many Nobz of various types.

Without dying once. (I only died when I was smacked in the face by a few angry Space Marines with chainswords)

 TheCustomLime wrote:
They can learn skills that way? I thought it just showed them the memories like a disc player would play the disc inserted.

Yup. Already mentioned were the Ultramarines who devoured a Tau pilot, Iron Warriors in Siege of Castellax also chowed down on some Ork pilots to learn who to fly an Ork fighter-bomber so they could get out of enemy territory. It didn't end well however due to Orks lacking brakes or throttle reduction.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
They can learn skills that way? I thought it just showed them the memories like a disc player would play the disc inserted.

Yup. Already mentioned were the Ultramarines who devoured a Tau pilot, Iron Warriors in Siege of Castellax also chowed down on some Ork pilots to learn who to fly an Ork fighter-bomber so they could get out of enemy territory. It didn't end well however due to Orks lacking brakes or throttle reduction.

Interesting. Do you think it is possible for a marine to eat the brain of his late commander and assume hisposition with all of his tactical know-how? As nonsensical as that is it would be sort of cool if they included it as a "thing" in future lore. Make Marines seem more alien.

Well, in that case, all the Scouts have to do is eat the brain of an knowledgeable human and they'll know who to shoot first. God help them if they eat the brains of people who... let's just say aren't worldly. It would give them a very skewed perspective on ancient Terran culture for sure.

Hee, can you imagine how broken a scout would be if he ate the average dakka-ite? He'd probably commit suicide right then and there if he took their opinions on the Imperium as rote!

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
They can learn skills that way? I thought it just showed them the memories like a disc player would play the disc inserted.

Yup. Already mentioned were the Ultramarines who devoured a Tau pilot, Iron Warriors in Siege of Castellax also chowed down on some Ork pilots to learn who to fly an Ork fighter-bomber so they could get out of enemy territory. It didn't end well however due to Orks lacking brakes or throttle reduction.

Interesting. Do you think it is possible for a marine to eat the brain of his late commander and assume hisposition with all of his tactical know-how? As nonsensical as that is it would be sort of cool if they included it as a "thing" in future lore. Make Marines seem more alien.

Well, in that case, all the Scouts have to do is eat the brain of an knowledgeable human and they'll know who to shoot first. God help them if they eat the brains of people who... let's just say aren't worldly. It would give them a very skewed perspective on ancient Terran culture for sure.

I wouldn't be surprised if they'd do that. I do know that Chaos Raptor Cults like the Bleeding Eyes chow down on their own Night Lord Chaos Space Marine dead, or loyalist Space Marines. Presumably it's how they're so good at politicking in the Night Lords- they know everything that's going on.

With loyalists however the process is probably taboo. Also it probably works on a probability factor depending on the percentage you eat. So to ensure you'd know everything you'd have to eat the whole body.

Hi everybody, I just got done reading all 13 pages of this discussion in an effort to make sure my proposed point wasn't touched on yet.

I see a lot of discussion on military might and tactics but one thing that I think we're all missing here is the fact that this is earth...a.k.a Holy Terra itself before the Emperor's rise to power.

Let's first decide what we're talking about here? Is this based in their own Universe? If it is, a single squad will never take over an entire planet unless the heresy hasn't spread to the population yet. If it's just a governor and his staff, a single squad has a decent chance to get in, get the job done and get out before it gets too rough. If they take too long; however, and allow the heresy to spread to the local PDF forces, then the odds of squashing the rebellion shrinks, the Siege of Vraks series is a prime example of how things can escalate out of their favor if they take too long.

A single company of 100 strong including Dreads and armoury support can work miracles in their own universe but still cannot take a planet without the support of Guard, it's just not going to happen realistically.

A whole chapter on the other hand is a force to be reckoned with especially if they're not Codex compliant like Space Wolves who still maintain Legion numbers. Now, whether a chapter can take a planet depends entirely on the type of force they're up against. A space marine chapter, IMO is far more able to hold a planet and repel an invasion that to invade a planet and expel it's current population, just look at the prolonged war in Armageddon. It's takes multiple chapters to successfully invade a planet, like Vraks, Badab, or Taros against the Tau and even then didn't really succeed that well.

So in conclusion for this part, in their own Universe Space Marines excel at invasion only if they get there in time. If they take too long and the heresy spreads too far then they absolutely require IG support.

Now let's examine what would happen if by some miracle a chapter of Space Marines, lets say Ultramarines just to keep things simple, were to arrive via warp storm in our time, Let's say that since there is no Emperor or Astronomicon in this time that the Navigators or Astropaths would have no idea where they were and would have no communication to other fleets or imperial worlds. That's the first challenge to overcome. Now, that being said let's look at a Space Marine's training. They're more than just super-soldiers. They're pretty much combat monks. They're fanatical in their faith to the Emperor and are supposed to memorize the entire Codex Astartes which is supposedly the ultimate manual on combat tactics and they're Chaplains make current religious fanatics look tame by comparison.

Now let's say for the sake of argument that the marines actually recognize earth for what it is...it is in fact Holy Terra itself before the Emperor's rise to power. We're all forgetting that no Loyalist marine in his right mind would ever in a million years aggressively land on Holy Terra's surface and start shooting up the place. In addition to that, no Chaplain would ever allow it either. Their fanaticism would never allow them to put at risk any future events with their arrival. (Yes, that's some Back to the Future logic). If they indeed recognized Earth, they would instantly turn around and leave it be. The Emperor will indeed rise soon and unite the techno-barbarian tribes...a.k.a "US".

So that's my opinion on the matter...never mind tactics, weapons and national pride...It is a fact that no loyalist Marine will ever willfully attack Holy Terra regardless of the planet's current condition. Their loyalty, fanaticism and superstition would prevent them from risking any kind of alteration to events that could negatively affect the Imperium. It's common sense.

This is just my opinion on the matter...though it does sound like it'd make for a cool Fan-Fiction, though I'm sure someone's thought of it already.

Drop pod into capital/communication hub. Pay for airtime on all television networks on the planet. 9 foot tall superman goes on camera, adjusts his glasses slightly and defines the term "exterminatus." TV goes to test pattern with the old Indian head replaced with the Emperor giving the thumbs up and some grimdark equivalent of Join or Die message along the bottom of the screen. Won't work every time, but if it doesn't, well, planet gets exterminatused...ed.